General Gaming I don't think I understand the appeal of Resident Evil's ranking system

[ShreddieMercury]

I recently played through RE Village again (fun!) and started RE4 remake again (the best), and for the umpteenth time I'm still confused about why it ranks the player based on speed.  I've always ignored the rankings, but paying more attention now, I just don't understand how it would be fun to speed through these games?  My view would be that the gameplay that feels the best should be what scores highest, and that's how rankings generally work in something like a character action game.  But to achieve high ranks in the RE games, you kind of have to just not play the game at all, and instead commit everything to memory and just run through.  I've never understood the appeal of speedrunning generally, but in these games especially it seems bizarre given how exceptional the gameplay actually is.

 

Do you all play the RE games like this?

[Greatoneshere]

16 minutes ago, ShreddieMercury said:

I recently played through RE Village again (fun!) and started RE4 remake again (the best), and for the umpteenth time I'm still confused about why it ranks the player based on speed.  I've always ignored the rankings, but paying more attention now, I just don't understand how it would be fun to speed through these games?  My view would be that the gameplay that feels the best should be what scores highest, and that's how rankings generally work in something like a character action game.  But to achieve high ranks in the RE games, you kind of have to just not play the game at all, and instead commit everything to memory and just run through.  I've never understood the appeal of speedrunning generally, but in these games especially it seems bizarre given how exceptional the gameplay actually is.

 

Do you all play the RE games like this?

 

It's probably because the old RE games can be (in)famously beaten very quickly and so it's sort of part of RE that how long you take is "part" of the skill (or ranking) of the game. I don't care about that aspect myself either, but it's always been a part of RE that they've kept around since the games can still be beaten pretty quickly as I underatand it.

[Keyser_Soze]

I think the idea is that once you know what to do and where to go it's all about trying to get there as fast as possible, at least as far as the old games are concerned. The gameplay in them wasn't the super compelling part. I watched TiffanyLockheart beat RE2 in like 2 hours and thought it was pretty impressive tbh. She always said she was used to doing it fast because her dad always beat the game in one sitting because he didn't have a memory card.

 

As for the newer ones like RE4 and Village those games are about getting powerful and killing fast, which is why speeding through them also makes sense.

[ShreddieMercury]

I can definitely understand with the early games that trying to optimize and speed through could extend the life of the game given that they were short and more about the puzzles than the moment to moment gameplay.  But playing the more recent games, I just enjoy the atmosphere, gameplay and exploration so much that I haven't been compelled to try and speed through them, even when replaying them several times over.

[Dodger]

There's an appeal to it?

[best3444]

I never pay attention to any ranking or anything in this realm. I play games how I see fit. That being said, RE4 is not as good as people say it is. I beat it twice in the last year to confirm this. 

[dualhunter]

I don't like being rushed and I wouldn't want to abandon a run because I was running behind. I've only played the 2 and 3 remakes. My initial runs I got low scores cause I took my time and saved a lot. Because 3 was short I gave it another go a few months later. You're not penalized in 3 for using the rocket launcher and the splash damage doesn't hurt you so I was able to finish quickly and play again increasing difficulty each time. I stopped after finishing the second highest difficulty because it didn't seem worth the trouble to do the hardest.

[ShreddieMercury]

2 hours ago, best3444 said:

I never pay attention to any ranking or anything in this realm. I play games how I see fit. That being said, RE4 is not as good as people say it is. I beat it twice in the last year to confirm this. 

 

You played a game you don't like twice through to completion?  Taste and enjoyment being completely subjective, RE4 is widely recognized as one of the best and most influential games of all time, and I would say the remake is nearly as good as the original. 

 

Totally respect your opinion, but it's one of my favorite games in the last 5-10 years.  I find it to be mechanically nearly perfect.  The game design is still shockingly sophisticated today, which is crazy to say for a remake of a nearly 20 year old game.

[best3444]

1 hour ago, ShreddieMercury said:

 

You played a game you don't like twice through to completion?  Taste and enjoyment being completely subjective, RE4 is widely recognized as one of the best and most influential games of all time, and I would say the remake is nearly as good as the original. 

 

Totally respect your opinion, but it's one of my favorite games in the last 5-10 years.  I find it to be mechanically nearly perfect.  The game design is still shockingly sophisticated today, which is crazy to say for a remake of a nearly 20 year old game.

 

Where did I ever say I don't like it? RE4 on GameCube was an event at the time. The remake is certainly good as I beat it twice but all I'm saying is it's not as good as others think imo. I understand others love it and consider it one of the best games ever. 

[skillzdadirecta]

I always thought the ranking systems in the RE games were to add replayability and to challenge your self on replays. Never appealed to me but I got it.

[ShreddieMercury]

2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I always thought the ranking systems in the RE games were to add replayability and to challenge your self on replays. Never appealed to me but I got it.

 

I agree and I think that's the point of all ranking/scoring systems, I just find it bizarre that RE's ranking is based almost single-handedly on speed, when I don't think that being fast is the most fun way to play the games.  Rewarding the player by tracking accuracy, hits taken, healing items used, etc. I would think makes more sense, because that's what playing "well" feels like.  I don't understand the structure they have in place that rewards the player for actively ignoring the core gameplay.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, ShreddieMercury said:

 

RE4 is widely recognized as one of the best and most influential games of all time, and I would say the remake is nearly as good as the original. 

I think there are a lot of people who think the controls of the original RE4 really held it back from being a "great" game.

[ShreddieMercury]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I think there are a lot of people who think the controls of the original RE4 really held it back from being a "great" game.

 

I'm sure there are, but it's an opinion that only seems popular in retrospect now that control schemes are almost completely homogeneous.  And that opinion doesn't seem to have affected the game's reputation.  The controls of RE4 are the game, because the core mechanics are all balanced around them.  More restricted movement increases the importance of positioning and the tension involved in the encounters.  I think the remake did an exceptional job of still retaining the risk/reward aspect of the first game's limited movement by making you wait for critical hits (brought over from RE2 Remake), while also changing the enemy behavior to account for your increased mobility and the knife parry.

 

It's fine to not like it, but I think people forget that tons of games used to have unique control schemes, and these differences allowed for unique approaches to game design.  If you don't like the controls of the original, the remake updates them to be in line with what all games use now, so you can enjoy it either way if you're inclined.

[best3444]

I had absolutely no issues with RE4 controls back on 2005. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I did.

17 minutes ago, ShreddieMercury said:

 

I'm sure there are, but it's an opinion that only seems popular in retrospect now that control schemes are almost completely homogeneous.  And that opinion doesn't seem to have affected the game's reputation.  The controls of RE4 are the game, because the core mechanics are all balanced around them.  More restricted movement increases the importance of positioning and the tension involved in the encounters.  I think the remake did an exceptional job of still retaining the risk/reward aspect of the first game's limited movement by making you wait for critical hits (brought over from RE2 Remake), while also changing the enemy behavior to account for your increased mobility and the knife parry.

 

It's fine to not like it, but I think people forget that tons of games used to have unique control schemes, and these differences allowed for unique approaches to game design.  If you don't like the controls of the original, the remake updates them to be in line with what all games use now, so you can enjoy it either way if you're inclined.

I haven't played the remake, but I hated the controls in the original game when it was released, and caused me to stop playing the game fairly early on.

I understand that my opinion is not universal, but I also think there is now a pretty broad consensus in that the controls were bad.

In terms of being one of the best games of all time -- if you're saying it's one of the top 2-300 games -- sure.  If you're saying it is top 10 or 20 -- I don't think its close.

[Xbob42]

There is no broad consensus that the controls were bad at the time. There is a consensus they haven't aged well, but that's a different argument. And most of that is to do with having to stop to shoot. 

 

Also, there's tons of achievements and rewards for beating the game with no healing, without accessing the item box, minimum saves, etc. The ranking is purely for speedrunning.

[skillzdadirecta]

Yeah there were no complaints about RE4's controls back in 2005 and it was the first game to implement that kind of precision aiming in a third person shooter unless you count the far less successful Winback. I mean RE4 inspired Gears of War and a bunch of other games. No they haven't aged well, but at the time they were definitely innovative.

[best3444]

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah there were no complaints about RE4's controls back in 2005 and it was the first game to implement that kind of precision aiming in a third person shooter unless you count the far less successful Winback. I mean RE4 inspired Gears of War and a bunch of other games. No they haven't aged well, but at the time they were definitely innovative.

 

@AbsolutSurgen hated the controls and didn't finish the game because of them. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

14 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah there were no complaints about RE4's controls back in 2005

 

I did.  Although, I may not have played it until 2006.

 

14 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

it was the first game to implement that kind of precision aiming in a third person shooter unless you count the far less successful Winback. 

I don't understand your point here.  What part of aiming did previous 3rd person shooters not have?

 

14 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I mean RE4 inspired Gears of War and a bunch of other games.

I really think Kill Switch was the original influence for GoW.

I am a little confused about your point RE4 being

[Keyser_Soze]

2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I really think Kill Switch was the original influence for GoW.

I am a little confused about your point RE4 being

 

Winback was the GoW influence

 

[Paperclyp]

The overwhelming general consensus around OG RE4's release was that it was a masterpiece, and that the controls were awesome.

 

While I agree that the original games, probably up to and including 4, were more fun to speed run than their modern iterations, I still think they're fun to speed run and I think that when you're trying to get a better "score" by playing the game again, you're naturally gonna play through it faster anyway. The first play through, especially if it's your only play through, should not be concerned about score at all. Hell, your second and third play throughs shouldn't either if that's not your thing. But the score is just there to meet it on its own terms. 

 

RE has always had interesting challenges to it to be had if you want, even before trophies and stuff. People were doing knife only runs prior to the trophy for it, or no deaths. Had I infinite time, I'd like to pick one of the games - probably REmake - and get really good at beating it. 

[skillzdadirecta]

Cliff B has said numerous times that Resident Evil 4 was one of the influences for Gears of War... here's one place he talks about it.

 

GDC 07: Cliffy B disassembles Gears, mentions sequel - GameSpot

WWW.GAMESPOT.COM

---

[UPDATE] Lead designer chronicles a game's evolution from the first-person shooter "Unreal Warfare" to the best-selling third-person Gears of...

He also mentions Kill switch as well, but I forgot about that game ( along with everyone else) and it's on NO one's lists for greatest games of all time and wasnt what we were talking about. So yeah, I don't know what the confusion is. RE4 was both a great game for its time and it was influential. Are the controls dated? Yes. So are tank controls. Doesn't negate how great the game was at the time it came out. 

[ShreddieMercury]

19 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I did.

I haven't played the remake, but I hated the controls in the original game when it was released, and caused me to stop playing the game fairly early on.

I understand that my opinion is not universal, but I also think there is now a pretty broad consensus in that the controls were bad.

In terms of being one of the best games of all time -- if you're saying it's one of the top 2-300 games -- sure.  If you're saying it is top 10 or 20 -- I don't think its close.

 

If the controls were your main issue, I would encourage you to try the remake, because they've updated it to play like modern games but it still retains the same kind of encounter design and mechanics that made the original so beloved.  If RE is not your thing then go ahead and skip it, but the controls shouldn't give you any issues at this point.

 

I would also absolutely put it in the top 10 games ever made.  Everything is subjective, but I think you can easily make the argument that it's up there given the game's widespread influence in the industry.

[HardAct]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:55 AM, dualhunter said:

I don't like being rushed and I wouldn't want to abandon a run because I was running behind. I've only played the 2 and 3 remakes. My initial runs I got low scores cause I took my time and saved a lot. Because 3 was short I gave it another go a few months later. You're not penalized in 3 for using the rocket launcher and the splash damage doesn't hurt you so I was able to finish quickly and play again increasing difficulty each time. I stopped after finishing the second highest difficulty because it didn't seem worth the trouble to do the hardest.

Play the 1st one {Remake wise} and forgot you played the third one.....lol