General Gaming Best Gaming Graphics of 2020, Best Games of 2020, and Best PC Games of 2020 (Digital Foundry) and Best Graphics/Technology of 2020 (NX Gamer)

[stepee]

22 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Yup, games are based around minimum specs, not maximum.

The odd thing itt is the blasting of the 1440p/60 statement - it’s not anymore misleading than PS5 or XSX 4k/120 statements.

 

I think, well at least what it should be, people are mentioning the 1440p/60 target and not meeting it already as a concern that MS’s hand-waiving of the issues  scaling down games to the S. If it really was doing these games at 1440p/60 right now Id be less concerned about it having to scale down to 900p down the line. But if things are already getting that low..there is a point there is only so much res left.

[Spork3245]

I should clear up any confusion on my statements: the SES shouldn’t exist in its current form. It was smart for MS to undercut Sony price-wise, but there’s a definite concern regarding long term fidelity for graphics and how much they’ll potentially be held back this gen by the S.

 

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I think, well at least what it should be, people are mentioning the 1440p/60 target and not meeting it already as a concern that MS’s hand-waiving of the issues  scaling down games to the S. If it really was doing these games at 1440p/60 right now Id be less concerned about it having to scale down to 900p down the line. But if things are already getting that low..there is a point there is only so much res left.

 

That’s exactly my point, though: games are already not meeting the 4k target for the XSX and PS5 either and no one cares. I’m just saying that there’s a lot of reasons to shit on the XSS, but the 1440p thing seems odd considering no one cares regarding the same issue on the other systems.  

[crispy4000]

22 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I guess I’m just not seeing the difference.

Most Series X/PS5 games at this point do hit 4k in some manner.  You really aren’t seeing many games that tap out at 1440p at tops.

 

Series S is a currently crapshoot whether or not a game goes higher than 1080p or not.  With last gen ports even.

 

There’s deceptive marketing in things like “true 4K” or “up to 120fps” too.  It’s just not quite as egregious. 

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Most Series X/PS5 games at this point do hit 4K.  You really aren’t seeing many games that tap out at 1440p at tops.

 

 

Most are at a dynamic resolution and rarely hit 4k for more than a few seconds unless you lock them in fidelity mode at 30fps - correct? (Unless you’re talking about “last gen” games) Even then, is it still using checkerboarding as the Pro and XboneX were (two non-4k “4k” consoles that no one cared about the marketing on)?

 

Quote

There’s deception in things like “true 4K” or “up to 120fps” too.  It’s just not quite as egregious. 

 

It’s the same marketing with a different resolution listed.  
 

Again, XSS is stupid, but it’s marketing is hardly more misleading than anything else is all I’m saying  

[Keyser_Soze]

36 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

You risked your life for 1440p? It would take at least 8k for me  

 

No he risked HIS life for 1440p

[Keyser_Soze]

17 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

That’s exactly my point, though: games are already not meeting the 4k target for the XSX and PS5 either and no one cares. I’m just saying that there’s a lot of reasons to shit on the XSS, but the 1440p thing seems odd considering no one cares regarding the same issue on the other systems.  

 

Hey man, some people really like playing Miles Morales at not 4k with ray tracing and at 30 fps.

[crispy4000]

22 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Most are at a dynamic resolution and rarely hit 4k for more than a few seconds unless you lock them in fidelity mode at 30fps - correct? Even then, is it still using checkerboarding as the Pro and XboneX were?

 

 

It’s the same marketing with a different resolution listed.  

Series X/PS5 games are hitting 4K more often than the One X and Pro did.  It’s not quite so rare.  I think that’s a win, even if reconstruction, a 30fps cap, or performance modes are involved.
 

At least it’s ballpark to the target for now.  Can’t say the same for Series S in many games.

 

30 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I should clear up any confusion on my statements: the SES shouldn’t exist in its current form. It was smart for MS to undercut Sony price-wise, but there’s a definite concern regarding long term fidelity for graphics and how much they’ll potentially be held back this gen by the S.

 

That’s exactly my point, though: games are already not meeting the 4k target for the XSX and PS5 either and no one cares. I’m just saying that there’s a lot of reasons to shit on the XSS, but the 1440p thing seems odd considering no one cares regarding the same issue on the other systems.  

IMO, it’s because they’re tied together.  There could be more of a case for the Series S if it was delivering more on its stated 1440p performance goals now.  There’d be more headroom later on to scale down.

[crispy4000]

8 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Hey man, some people really like playing Miles Morales at not 4k with ray tracing and at 30 fps.

They’d be crazy not to pick the 60fps RT performance mode instead. 

[stepee]

What’s funny is all this talk of Series S being lame actually started me thinking though you can still get $175 for a Xbox One X, I might actually just pay the $125 and get one for funsies!

[best3444]

21 minutes ago, stepee said:

What’s funny is all this talk of Series S being lame actually started me thinking though you can still get $175 for a Xbox One X, I might actually just pay the $125 and get one for funsies!

 

Wait. Where are you getting the number of $175 for the Xbox one x?

[stepee]

14 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Wait. Where are you getting the number of $175 for the Xbox one x?

 

Gamestop, Best Buy is also close with $150.

[best3444]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Gamestop, Best Buy is also close with $150.

 

I hope those prices hold until a little later so I can trade in my ps4 pro, switch, and Xbox one x. That will help for one of the next consoles. 

[BloodyHell]

2 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Aren’t PS4/Pro and PS5 just basically using PC parts now too?

Ps5 is. PS4 is not. That's part of the reason for separate sku,'s and save files. From what I understand anyway.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

They’d be crazy not to pick the 60fps RT performance mode instead. 

Not really. I found the draw distance to be far worse in that mode.

[stepee]

That’s just api’s and shit. The ps4 is just pc parts too. PS5 has more custom shit.

[BloodyHell]

2 hours ago, stepee said:

I feel like there is a confusion of what the concern is, I don’t think anyone is concerned that the XSS itself is a bad system or value proposition as I don’t think anyone here will be getting one as a main system.

 

The issue people are concerned about is that at a certain point games have to toned down in overall scope/vision based on the minimum requirements they have to develop for. PC minimum requirements will go up but for game devs they are stuck with supporting the S as the minimum, if it can barely handle cross gen, then that’s a concern that it won’t be compromising games design for 7 years.

But again, it hasn't problem with cross gen. You're blaming lazy ports on ms instead of the devs. 

 

Most people don't have or want a 4k TV. The SeS isn't holding back anything anymore than the gtx 1080 is holding back pc development.

[crispy4000]

5 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Not really. I found the draw distance to be far worse in that mode.

I thought the PS4 Pro version of the first game hid it well.  Is it any worse than that?

[BloodyHell]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

I thought the PS4 Pro version of the first game hid it well.  Is it any worse than that?

It's very noticeable if you're used to performance mode.

[stepee]

13 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I hope those prices hold until a little later so I can trade in my ps4 pro, switch, and Xbox one x. That will help for one of the next consoles. 

 

I mean, if you just want to sell the switch, why not just start checking when you can get a new system now?

 

The amount is probably the highest it’s ever going to be again with holidays and stock shortages inflating the price of old models. And the consoles aren’t going down in price until maybe like the end of the year with $50 off black friday deals.

 

Gamestop will give your $175 a pop. You could get XSS and a PS5 for $175 extra if you traded all three in and then can play both current gen libraries. 

 

At the least just trade the pro and the switch in now and get the ps5 for $50.

[stepee]

4 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

But again, it hasn't problem with cross gen. You're blaming lazy ports on ms instead of the devs. 

 

Most people don't have or want a 4k TV. The SeS isn't holding back anything anymore than the gtx 1080 is holding back pc development.

 

This is getting tomcatesque yo.

[stepee]

5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

I thought the PS4 Pro version of the first game hid it well.  Is it any worse than that?

 

No it is not. The rt performance mode is the same res, density, draw distance as the ps4 pro version. Just with the added improved lighting, textures, shadows, rt ray tracing, and at 60fps. It’s not as populated and sharp as the fidelity mode but that was an enhancement. If you thought pro was good with those, then it’s all improvements.

[best3444]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I mean, if you just want to sell the switch, why not just start checking when you can get a new system now?

 

The amount is probably the highest it’s ever going to be again with holidays and stock shortages inflating the price of old models. And the consoles aren’t going down in price until maybe like the end of the year with $50 off black friday deals.

 

Gamestop will give your $175 a pop. You could get XSS and a PS5 for $175 extra if you traded all three in and then can play both current gen libraries. 

 

At the least just trade the pro and the switch in now and get the ps5 for $50.

 

I want to be able to walk in a store and buy one of the new consoles. If that isn't this year. I'll wait until next year. Next gen hasn't even began yet. I'm in no rush but thanks for your thoughts.

[stepee]

Just now, best3444 said:

 

I want to be able to walk in a store and buy one of the new consoles. If that isn't this year. I'll wait until next year. Next gen hasn't even began yet. I'm in no rush but thanks for your thoughts.

 

Well, that’s all I’m saying, just start checking your local gamestop’s stock online now and then and as soon as you see it in stock call in and ask them to hold one while you go in and do the trade asap to get the most money for the old stuff. 
 

Im just saying if I were you I wouldn’t wait for a cyberpunk patch or some arbitrary date, I would just wait for whenever you can go in and get one.

[best3444]

I got ya. 

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

But again, it hasn't problem with cross gen. You're blaming lazy ports on ms instead of the devs. 

 

Most people don't have or want a 4k TV. The SeS isn't holding back anything anymore than the gtx 1080 is holding back pc development.

Was Forza Horizon 4 poorly optimized on Series S?  Sea of Thieves?  There’s Microsoft and non-Microsoft games both that are lacking 1440p modes in their patches.
 

Those signs point to the hardware not being totally up to snuff for AAA stuff at that level, especially as the gen goes on.  It’s not the devs fault.  There are some supremely well optimized last-gen games like Gears 5 that buck the trend, but I wouldn’t call the games that don’t live up to that lazy.

It’s too early for Series S to hold anything back.  Even later on, developers likely won’t build to its spec. They’ll probably try salvaging what they can in late stages of development.  The issue is the headroom they’ll have left to do that.  It’s not so simple as saying all is fine on a HDTV display.  Performance woes and sub-1080p resolutions with reconstruction artifacts are pretty much inevitable.

 

Ask yourself how a worse GPU than the Xbox One’s has held up in AAA releases over the past few years.

[HardAct]

    This just solidified my personal belief that these consoles released to early. I for the first time was still enjoying my xbox 1x and ps4 pro (but having a really good gaming pc makes a difference). Some of these new tricks and graphical lighting options are just to power hungery. 4k / 60 is hard with graphic leaps happening like they are.i love love love new tech, but these are a bit early IMHO.

    I think we will get upgrades much earlier than the ps4pro and xbox1x happened. I'm wanting 4k/120 as a more viable option and that's just not happening right now on titles like CP2077, Assassins creed, spiderman, ghosts, etc. I think I just might make it to these new console mid gen upgrades this time. Cool that there out there, sucks that their impossible to get, but it's making me get past the initial shiny new toy case, thus saving my wallet a bit longer.

 

    That said, I'd go buy a ps5 tomarrow if I could just go in and get it at a store! I have a 2080ti pc so holding off on a series x will be even easier. Saving right now for a rtx4080 pc as I type this. That's what novemberish 2023? I'm hoping so, if not bill have to bite and get a 3090 but I want a huge upgrade when I do it, a 2080ti to a 40series should be amazing for 5 years the way I build/upgrade

[crispy4000]

37 minutes ago, HardAct said:

    This just solidified my personal belief that these consoles released to early. I for the first time was still enjoying my xbox 1x and ps4 pro (but having a really good gaming pc makes a difference). Some of these new tricks and graphical lighting options are just to power hungery. 4k / 60 is hard with graphic leaps happening like they are.i love love love new tech, but these are a bit early IMHO.

    I think we will get upgrades much earlier than the ps4pro and xbox1x happened. I'm wanting 4k/120 as a more viable option and that's just not happening right now on titles like CP2077, Assassins creed, spiderman, ghosts, etc. I think I just might make it to these new console mid gen upgrades this time. Cool that there out there, sucks that their impossible to get, but it's making me get past the initial shiny new toy case, thus saving my wallet a bit longer.

 

    That said, I'd go buy a ps5 tomarrow if I could just go in and get it at a store! I have a 2080ti pc so holding off on a series x will be even easier. Saving right now for a rtx4080 pc as I type this. That's what novemberish 2023? I'm hoping so, if not bill have to bite and get a 3090 but I want a huge upgrade when I do it, a 2080ti to a 40series should be amazing for 5 years the way I build/upgrade

 

Everyone should have waited for AMD to get their shit together with their "super resolution," IMO.  Either that, or for Sony or Microsoft to develop/finish improved AI upscale algorithms.  The hardware was never going to feel like enough so soon after the mid-cycle consoles.  But it's a way to cheat that a bit.

 

I don't think 120fps will be a large focus for TV's going forward though.  Gaming is the main medium driving its adoption.  I doubt it'll be a major push of the current gen outside of indies and F2P stuff, but who knows.

[SaysWho?]

 Devs got PS5 kits early and the games run great. There’s nothing I’m seeing that leads me to believe the consoles released too early. At least not the PS5, and I haven’t heard anything but the Series X being a really good machine.

 

 

[Mercury33]

Lol this thread

[crispy4000]

4 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 Devs got PS5 kits early and the games run great. There’s nothing I’m seeing that leads me to believe the consoles released too early. At least not the PS5, and I haven’t heard anything but the Series X being a really good machine.

Its more that devs haven’t had the time to build next-gen exclusives.  Dark Souls was pretty much it for 2020.

 

If these consoles came a year later and super resolution was ready, I think we would have seen a very substantial next-gen jump in visuals as opposed to X1X/PSPro 2.0 at current.

 

These consoles can do more than that, we know.  So it’s more just me wishing that they didn’t lean so hard into cross-gen as the appeal.

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Its more that devs haven’t had the time to build next-gen exclusives.  Dark Souls was pretty much it for 2020.

 

If these consoles came a year later and super resolution was ready, I think we would have seen a very substantial next-gen jump in visuals as opposed to X1X/PSPro 2.0 at current.

 

These consoles can do more than that, we know.  So it’s more just me wishing that they didn’t lean so hard into cross-gen.

 

When they do build next-gen exclusives, people complain that they're rushed. I got a better launch this time despite Demon's Souls and Astro's Playroom being two of the few games not cross-platform. 

 

End of the day, there's no need to delay the consoles or wish they came later. The generation was long and fruitful and fun, and now we have powerful machines into the next gen. The cross-gen games will diminish same as they did last gen, especially since there's a good chance the next-gen games that come out on previous-gen consoles won't play very well.

[crispy4000]

27 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

When they do build next-gen exclusives, people complain that they're rushed. I got a better launch this time despite Demon's Souls and Astro's Playroom being two of the few games not cross-platform.

Did Demon’s Souls feel rushed to you?  It sounds more like an excuse to me.

 

Sony’s 1st party line-up was good enough for them this time, I’ll say.  The issue is the rest of the industry.  It’s lost interest in making showpieces for new hardware anywhere close to their launches.  Dampens the hype.  
 

Outside of Remedy and the mythical Cyperpunk patch, the industry at large is probably a year behind Ratchet.  I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

[Mercury33]

It’s tech. It’s always evolving. You could always wait another year for something better. Might as well say they should have waited for the new Unreal and just pray it was ready on time. 

[SaysWho?]

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Did Demon Souls feel rushed to you?  It sounds more like an excuse to me.

 

Sony’s 1st party line-up was good enough this time, I’ll say.  The issue is the rest of the industry.  It’s lost interest in making showpieces for new hardware anywhere close to their launches.  Dampens the hype.  The industry is probably at least a year behind Ratchet.

 

So considering we just touched on several points, I'll work on each point so this sounds less scattershot.

 

Hype

 

Considering how quickly the consoles sold, the hype was plenty there. Same with the PS4. And the Switch despite its biggest game being cross-gen at launch.

 

Rushed for Launch

 

Given how many times games get delayed, it's perfectly reasonable to think that a hard deadline as a new console launch with new tech leads to increased crunch/rush. It's not as if Killzone or Knack set the world on fire (though Resogun motha fucking did, mmm, that damn game).

 

DS certainly didn't feel rushed in any aspect, and neither did Astro or Spidey (haven't played Sackboy yet). But that's also why I feel nothing is rushed about a launch seven years after its predecessors. This was a pretty varied and healthy launch, and BC has been lovely. Maybe people are conflating PS with Xbox or wanting to seem even-handed by taking a both sides approach, but there was certainly a lot ready for a new PS owner.

 

Show pieces

 

Your point about third parties is certainly true in that fewer games released specifically on one platform. But I dunno, while I think of Halo and Mario 64 as those show piece classic launch games (and Rogue Squadron being an example of a next gen look), I feel as if many launches aren't this varied and many of the popular games aren't huge show pieces. Mario World was a great game, but it didn't strike me as something that looked next-gen like Sonic did. The PS2 launch was varied but not heavy hitting, so even Tekken and Ridge Racer didn't light the world on fire. Madden 2001 looked great but was cross-gen, but at that time, cross-gen from PS1 and PS2 was hugely different.

 

I guess Resistance was that showpiece on PS3, but really, nothing quite DAZZLED like Mario and Halo far as I can recall. tbh, the biggest dazzling launch... was PSVR, imo. And that was less graphically and more performance/experience.

[crispy4000]

This is the first time a next-gen launch for me that hasn't felt like I know where the hardware is going.  We haven't seen enough of that from the launch games. We haven't seen enough of that from future games.  Moreover, we're seeing that raytracing is a performance hog in games designed to work cross-gen.  We haven't seen enough of what the SSDs will add, especially considering that Unreal Engine 5 is still not ready.  And a next gen upscaling solution is just a dangling promise at this point.

 

I get that launch games can't prove everything, and I wouldn't expect them to.  But I believe the hardware manufactures should be attempting to illustrate the why next-gen in a more substantive way than they have this far.  If for nothing else than to stick it to their competition.  The industry will go on and these consoles will sell regardless, but it's especially disappointing when it appears they're getting us used to dull upgrade cycles, where the hardware matters for more than how it's used.  It was excusable for the Pro/X1X launches, but it shouldn't have been here.

 

Going off only what I’ve seen rather than expect, it’s the PS5 controller that’s really what’s pushing the envelope at this point.