Sony Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart (June 11, 2021) - Information Thread, Update: reviews from OpenCritic posted

[Spork3245]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

@Spork3245

The scripted sequences pull you in and out of different gameplay enviornments rapidly.  That's how it relates.  If you think that doesn't change the gameplay experience compared to current-gen games, then I don't know what else to tell you other than to think more broadly about it.

That’s the same as a new level loading but with a shorter load time. It affects the game, sure, but you’re not controlling it, it’s a scripted sequence (based off what’s been shown).

[crispy4000]

2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

That’s the same as a new level loading but with a shorter load time. It affects the game, sure, but you’re not controlling it.

 

Like the screen transitions in WarioWare.  It's not insignificant to have those short cuts, but you can try to paint it as such.

[Spork3245]

Just now, crispy4000 said:

 

Like the screen transitions in WarioWare.  It's not insignificant, but you can try to paint it as such.

I never said it wasn’t significant, I said it wasn’t a gameplay mechanic, like how those rifts that act similar to Portal 1 & 2 portals are a gameplay mechanic.

[crispy4000]

No shit.  But it absolutely affects the gameplay experience as JPDunks referred to it:
 

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Game still looks gorgeous with awesome effects, but the SSD with whats shown thus far hasn't shown me anything that improves the gameplay experience of the game much.

 

[Spork3245]

I dunno, maybe later in the game you can hop over to new worlds instantly and at your discretion to escape enemies or something? That would definitely be an SSD-based gameplay mechanic. Unfortunately, nothing like that has been shown in the videos provided so far.

[Spork3245]

4 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

No shit.  But it absolutely affects the gameplay experience as JPDunks referred to it:
 

 

Except he’s seen that, as have I, and I’m not attempting to argue for him. I just stated I agree with how I interpreted his sentiment on the subject and have made it very clear as to what I am referencing on my own.  

[Duderino]

18 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I never claimed it wasn’t the best showcase  

There seems to be a weird habit of confusing arguments into something they aren’t. @JPDunks4 stated that, while impressive, there hasn’t been any SSD-dependent things that affect the gameplay mechanics from what’s been shown so far, I agree with him (and am looking forward to when those things are shown). No one is saying that R&C isn’t impressive or that the SSD-dependent things that have been shown aren’t impressive.

Struggling to think of the last console generation that allowed for notable new gameplay mechanics.  It's not exactly a realistic expectation to have here.
 

New "gameplay experiences" however, as in scenarios that are not realistic on the aging PS4/Xbone, Ratchet does have on display.

 

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Duderino said:

Struggling to think of the last console generation that allowed for notable new gameplay mechanics.  It's not exactly a realistic expectation to have here.

 

 

Xbone Kinect voice implementation.

*We never established it had to be good mechanics

 

PS4 being powerful enough to allow VR 

 

Wii with motion controls

 

360/PS3 HDDs allowing for large open worlds and better integration of online features and the ability to get DLC which added more gameplay 

 

1 minute ago, Duderino said:

New "gameplay experiences" however, as in scenarios that are less than realistic on the aging PS4/Xbone, Ratchet does have on display.

 

I don’t disagree 

However, SSDs of this speed will undoubtedly offer unique gameplay mechanics in the future, in addition to new experiences that weren’t possible before. I am not knocking R&C for having one and not the other.

[legend]

2 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

That’s the same as a new level loading but with a shorter load time. It affects the game, sure, but you’re not controlling it, it’s a scripted sequence (based off what’s been shown).

 

The developers would not have architected the level design to have numerous world switches if they couldn't do it quickly. If new tech changes the level design games can provide that seems like a pretty fair definition of "gameplay" changing.

 

If you disagree with that, I guess that's fine, but I'm not sure why you care to tease it apart that way.

[Spork3245]

42 minutes ago, legend said:

 

The developers would not have architected the level design to have numerous world switches if they couldn't do it quickly. If new tech changes the level design games can provide that seems like a pretty fair definition of "gameplay" changing.

 

 

I think it’s more just a larger scale set piece than what’s currently possible. It’s not really a mechanic of gameplay in the way it’s been shown.

 

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If you disagree with that, I guess that's fine, but I'm not sure why you care to tease it apart that way.

 

Tease it apart?

Did you mean tear it apart? I’m not, and I never disparaged it in any way. I questioned what has been shown that is a new gameplay mechanic that wouldn’t be possible without an SSD (since someone made such a claim). I disagree that the world loading, in how it’s been shown, is a gameplay mechanic, as it’s scripted - I never stated that the fact it was scripted made it less impressive, I just said it’s not a gameplay mechanic... because it’s not. And that’s being interpreted that I’m being rough on or criticizing the game somehow  

[Keyser_Soze]

@Spork3245 Shorter load times means you get to the GAMEPLAY faster thus enhancing the gameplay that can only be done in next gen!

 

[legend]

 

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I think it’s more just a larger scale set piece than what’s currently possible. It’s not really a mechanic of gameplay in the way it’s been shown.

 

Tease it apart?

Did you mean tear it apart? I’m not, and I never disparaged it in any way. I questioned what has been shown that is a new gameplay mechanic that wouldn’t be possible without an SSD (since someone made such a claim). I disagree that the world loading, in how it’s been shown, is a gameplay mechanic, as it’s scripted - I never stated that the fact it was scripted made it less impressive, I just said it’s not a gameplay mechanic... because it’s not. And that’s being interpreted that I’m being rough on or criticizing the game somehow  

 

https://www.interglot.com/dictionary/en/en/translate/tease apart#:~:text=Alternate Synonyms for "tease apart,%3B disentangle%3B unsnarl%3B straighten out

Sorry if the expression is unfamiliar. Tease apart refers to disentangling. In this context, I'm saying level design is an entangled concept with gameplay. That is,  I would absolutely classify level design as part of gameplay. If seems you don't want to. Which as I said, is fine, I just don't know why you want to separate those concepts.

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

https://www.interglot.com/dictionary/en/en/translate/tease apart#:~:text=Alternate Synonyms for "tease apart,%3B disentangle%3B unsnarl%3B straighten out

Sorry if the expression is unfamiliar. Tease apart refers to disentangling. In this context, I'm saying level design is an entangled concept with gameplay. That is,  I would absolutely classify level design as part of gameplay. If seems you don't want to. Which as I said, is fine, I just don't know why you want to separate those concepts.

It’s neat and all, but it’s also not the first game to do this. It is doing it on a larger scale and is certainly an evolutionary step compared to previous iterations. Not being the first to do something and doing it waaaay bigger and better doesn’t make it less impressive of course.

However, while I agree level design affects gameplay, I’ve been talking about gameplay mechanics which are typically things controlled by the player. ie: rewind in Forza is a gameplay mechanic made possible by HDDs

[Keyser_Soze]

Love will tease us apart!

[Duderino]

 

4 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Xbone Kinect voice implementation.

*We never established it had to be good mechanics

 

PS4 being powerful enough to allow VR 

 

Wii with motion controls

 

360/PS3 HDDs allowing for large open worlds and better integration of online features and the ability to get DLC which added more gameplay 

 

Let me rephrase my statement by saying it has been quite a while since console hardware, on it's own, has lead to brand new gameplay mechanics.  It is not a realistic expectation to have.  Definitely not "next-gen" criteria to me.
 

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

I think it’s more just a larger scale set piece than what’s currently possible. It’s not really a mechanic of gameplay in the way it’s been shown.

As you've pointed out above, this is not the first generation where storage speed leaps have lead to new possibilities.  While open world games existed in the PS2/Xbox era, the HDD in the PS3/360 did remove an important bottleneck for developers.  The SSD leap is no different.

What developers can do with this added freedom is going to be what differentiates this gen from the last.  Ratchet is one of the first games that is showing that in practice.

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, Duderino said:

It is not a realistic expectation to have.  Definitely not "next-gen" criteria to me.
 

 

Eh? I never claimed any expectations or that next-gen needed any criteria in regards to gameplay mechanics 

 

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LThe SSD leap is no different.

 

Yes, I stated this multiple times. 
 

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What developers can do with this added freedom is going to be what differentiates this gen from the last.  Ratchet is one of the first games that is showing that in practice.

Okay? That doesn’t mean R&C has new gameplay mechanics which aren’t possible without an SSD - it is certainly doing things that aren’t possible without the SSD, just not what was in question. Simultaneously, that’s not a knock against it, either.

[Duderino]

15 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

 Okay? That doesn’t mean R&C has new gameplay mechanics which aren’t possible without an SSD - it is certainly doing things that aren’t possible without the SSD, just not what was in question.

In question by who exactly?  Is anyone in this thread actually stating that Ratchet has new mechanics only possible with the SSD?

 

I don't get why you're stuck on this.

[Keyser_Soze]

11 minutes ago, Duderino said:

In question by who exactly?  Is anyone in this thread actually stating that Ratchet has new mechanics only possible with the SSD?

 

I don't get why you're stuck on this.

 

Because that's the question he asked that no one has answered.

[Spork3245]

12 minutes ago, Duderino said:

In question by who exactly?  Is anyone in this thread actually stating that Ratchet has new mechanics only possible with the SSD?

 

I asked. I keep getting non-answers and replied to as if I’m insulting the game, though.  
 

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I don't get why you're stuck on this.

I mean, you guys seem to be the ones stuck on it. If you weren’t, you likely would have just said something to the extent of “it doesn’t have any gameplay mechanics that aren’t possible without an SSD” by now... but, here we are.

[Duderino]

Why push for answers to an irrelevant question?

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Duderino said:

Why push for answers to an irrelevant question?

It’s only irrelevant to you because you seemingly don’t like it

Why respond if you’re not going to answer the question? 

[Keyser_Soze]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

It’s only irrelevant to you because you seemingly don’t like it

 

They have to justify it somehow otherwise the PS5 just isn't as magical.

[Spork3245]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They have to justify it somehow otherwise the PS5 just isn't as magical.

YOU’RE magical

[Duderino]

11 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

It’s only irrelevant to you because you seemingly don’t like it

It's irrelevant because it is not pertinent to the discussion at hand, plain and simple.  I don't even disagree.  This is pointless.

[crispy4000]

21 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They have to justify it somehow otherwise the PS5 just isn't as magical.

This is quite literally something all next-gen platforms can benefit from to some degree, especially compared to the current gen.

 

I don’t think anyone’s claiming the PS5 gets to be the only beneficiary.

[SaysWho?]

29 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

They have to justify it somehow otherwise the PS5 just isn't as magical.

 

I'm beginning to think Sony shot your dog.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, legend said:

 

 

https://www.interglot.com/dictionary/en/en/translate/tease apart#:~:text=Alternate Synonyms for "tease apart,%3B disentangle%3B unsnarl%3B straighten out

Sorry if the expression is unfamiliar. Tease apart refers to disentangling. In this context, I'm saying level design is an entangled concept with gameplay. That is,  I would absolutely classify level design as part of gameplay. If seems you don't want to. Which as I said, is fine, I just don't know why you want to separate those concepts.

Because it doesn’t fit his gut feelings that Ratchet didn’t prove enough.

 

I think it’s more about expectations.  For some people, these quick transitions are justification that the SSD can change game design.  For others, it’s not enough to provide a ‘this is next-gen (gameplay)’ moment we’re supposed to want out of it.  So it gets debated.

 

But I don’t think there’s much of an argument that it isn’t groundbreaking, as has been claimed.  I’m even struggling to remember any cartridge-based 3D games, where loading is minimal, that do world swaps to a similar effect.

[Keyser_Soze]

14 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I'm beginning to think Sony shot your dog.

 

I've missed you.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I've missed you.

 

Where'd I go?

[Keyser_Soze]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

Where'd I go?

 

You've been around but sparingly.

[legend]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

It’s neat and all, but it’s also not the first game to do this. It is doing it on a larger scale and is certainly an evolutionary step compared to previous iterations. Not being the first to do something and doing it waaaay bigger and better doesn’t make it less impressive of course.

However, while I agree level design affects gameplay, I’ve been talking about gameplay mechanics which are typically things controlled by the player. ie: rewind in Forza is a gameplay mechanic made possible by HDDs

 

 

My suspicion is the vast majority of benefits from fast SSDs will be of the level-design variety.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

You've been around but sparingly.

 

I had to think about this, but then I remembered my parents visited this past weekend so we took them around! 

[Duderino]

10 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

But I don’t think there’s much of an argument that it isn’t groundbreaking, as has been claimed in this thread.  I’m even struggling to remember any cartridge-based 3D games that do world swaps to similar effect.

And beyond just Ratchet, this bodes well for any game that could benefit from a wider breadth of content in the gameplay loop or has pacing shortcomings related to the HDD.

[Keyser_Soze]

26 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I had to think about this, but then I remembered my parents visited this past weekend so we took them around! 

 

Ah, well hope you had a good time!

[JPDunks4]

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So is that dimensional shifting happening in real time or only set points in the game?

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Most likely real time like Titanfall 2 or Dishonored did.

On 8/28/2020 at 12:12 AM, heydude93 said:

Since there's already games with portal guns and dimensional riftshifting and the ones in the demo are from a weapon/device, everything seems to point to Ratchet obtaining one at some point to upgrade for some bonkers Prey/Portal/Titanfall gameplay possibilities 

 

 

My response was because I saw comments like this.  Talking about the rifts in the demo being from a weapon/device, and having Titanfall 2 type gameplay possibilities. Looking at it again, I see he said everything seems to point to those possibilities, but didn't say they were in the demo.  I thought at the time they were in the demo, and I literally watched the wrong demo or there was additional gameplay footage I was missing, because nothing in this demo showed anything interesting gameplay wise to me.

 

The 6 minute mark is the teleporting.  The player seems to make 1 actual input during the sequence, jumping over the cart on the rail.  I guess they move the dragon around a little dodging the flying cars?  Then they land, and he fights 3 enemies.  That sequence of course is impressive to look at, but from a gameplay perspective, would feel no better to me than playing a CoD scripted sequence where I start out crashing through a jungle in a Jeep, into a dark cave then outside the far side into an office building and city streets.  It's just a scripted cinematic scene made to look cool and impressive, but gameplay wise offers next to nothing.  So i thought I was missing something reading some of the stuff I was reading about it.

 

 

Then I saw this exchange on Twitter and it just reiterated what I had thought.  There is no evidence of actual world flipping or interesting gameplay mechanics, but rather so far just scripted faster loading sequences.  

 

 

That was my only comment.  Was there any mention from the developers in their interviews about ti being used in other ways, or just what we've seen so far in the gameplay footage so far.  Will the player have the freedom to jump from portal to portal at their choosing in some form.  If not, that's cool.  Its early in the generation and I don't think it's to be expected they will be going too crazy with all the new toys they have to work with right away.  I just thought I was missing something in the demo based off some of the reactions I was reading on Twitter about how blown away people were from the extended gameplay demo.