Nintendo Inside Nvidia's New T239 Processor: The Next-Gen Tegra For Switch 2? (Digital Foundry)

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[jaethos]

I'm hopeful for the new thing. I skipped the Switch, so if this has back compat and ends up being decent I'll probably get it and go back to the handful of games I'd want to get to.

[TwinIon]

Here's the accompanying text article.

 

It's an interesting thought exercise, and certainly the most informed guess to date, but it is still just that. It seems like the baseline expectations people have had for a long time continue to hold true. A PS4-ish level of performance, but boosted by newer architecture and (fingers crossed) some significant DLSS capabilities. That sounds good to me.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Text article for those of us who prefer to read

 

Inside Nvidia's new hardware for Switch 2: what is the T239 processor?

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What new hardware has Nvidia cooked up for Nintendo? Digital Foundry puts together all available info on the cutting-ed…

 

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In this piece, we'll talk about the various evidence that links the T239 with Nintendo and we'll also be taking a look at the closest equivalent mobile GPU in the graphics space, downclocking it to ultra-low frequencies in an attempt to get some kind of handle on what a low-power Ampere-based graphics core can offer, whether ray tracing is possible and just how important DLSS upscaling could be for a second generation Nintendo hybrid handheld/console. We'll also see whether our analysis marries up with any of the sparse information gleaned from the Gamescom showing of Switch 2 to select developers.

 

But let's kick off with a basic, fundamental question. Can we say for sure, with absolute 100 percent certainty that the T239 is indeed the Switch 2 chip? That's a negative. However, we can definitely tie the T239 to a Nintendo project and there's no evidence - and indeed, no need - for Nvidia to create this chip for anyone else. For its own endeavours in the automotive and robotics market, the firm already has the T234. And to understand the custom variant, it's a really good idea to get to know what the T234 is and why Nintendo couldn't use this chip to begin with.

 

 

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There's one more component of T239 worthy of comment - the FDE. It's an entirely new hardware block not found in the T234. FDE stands for File Decompression Engine. Similar to the decompression block found in PlayStation 5, this basically allows for ultra-fast decompression of assets from storage and into memory. There was a recent report from Nate The Hate talking about a Breath of the Wild demo running on Switch 2 hardware with zero loading times. Well, T239 has the hardware to facilitate ultra-fast loading, but it's going to need a much faster storage format to make that possible - an area where we are lacking details right now.

 

The Linux details paint a very detailed picture of the T239 and many of these details were confirmed by an Nvidia hack - the Ampere GPU architecture, the 128-bit memory bus and LPDDR5 memory, along with the backported power saving features from the Ada Lovelace design. The hack also suggests that T239 has 1536 CUDA cores, 75 percent of the cores of the much larger T234.

 

 

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So, what should expect from the T239 in a mobile games machine? In the recent Microsoft FTC court case, Activision's Bobby Kotick mentioned that Nintendo had briefed him on the device last year and its performance profile was in line with last-gen hardware. Well, that may well be the case but one could equally say that the Switch had similar horsepower to the Wii U or Xbox 360 but it punched well above that weight. This was achieved via a more modern GPU and more memory, for starters. I'd venture to suggest that Switch 2 follows that trend - and goes further. I mean, Bobby Kotick talks about PS4-class performance, but meanwhile we're hearing talk of The Matrix Awakens on Unreal Engine 5 running on it, something a PS4 could never do. This is what happens when you have custom silicon based on a much more modern GPU, equipped with machine learning tensor cores and hardware accelerated ray tracing.

 

To get some idea of what a mobile Ampere-class processor can do, I turned my hand to some practical work. There's no real equivalent counterpart for the capabilities of the A78C CPU cluster in the PC space, but when it comes to the GPU, we can get close. I bought in a Dell Vostro 5630 comes equipped with the following specs: a Core i7 1360p CPU, 16 gigs of 4800MHz LPDDR5, a 512GB SSD and an RTX 2050. It's that last component we're looking at more closely here.

 

First of all, despite its designation as an RTX 20-series part, it's actually the exact same silicon as the Ampere based RTX 3050 and 3050 Ti - it's a GA107 processor. We can't match the 1536 CUDA cores of the T239, but 2048 CUDA cores is the lowest we can go on a gaming Ampere GPU. So why not simply get a 3050 laptop then? Well, think of the 2050 as a lobotomised 3050 - it has a lower power budget, lower clocks and crucially, it's got a 64-bit memory interface. At 96GB/s of bandwidth, it operates with a considerable bottleneck compared to the RTX 3050 but it also gives us ballpark equivalence with the bandwidth a potential Switch 2 could deliver. There's one sticking point though - the 2050 only comes with 4GB of RAM. I'd expect to see 8GB or even 12GB of total system memory in Switch 2.

 

 

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However, there are some more legitimate questions and concerns over the T239. We've established that the 455mm2 T234 is way, way too large for a mobile games processor - but even with its various cutbacks in CPU and graphics, the T239 will likely be much larger than the 118mm2 Tegra X1 in the current Switch. A larger chip requires meatier cooling which may not be a good match for a Nintendo hybrid handheld/home console. Some believe that T239 isn't on the 8nm Samsung process node at all, and it's likely that only a teardown of the retail machine will confirm this one way or another.

 

From my perspective, the bottom line is that by a process of elimination, T239 is the best candidate for the processor at the heart of the new Nintendo machine. Nvidia's Jensen Huang is on the record as saying that Nvidia's partnership with Nintendo will likely last two decades. And with a mooted 2024 release date, there have been no convincing leaks whatsoever for any other processor that could find its way into the new Switch.

 

 

[crispy4000]

Should still be a great portable machine with that spec and performance quality.  We've seen rumors of DLSS3 being supported.  That could just be pie in the sky given the chip it likely is. 

[Ominous]

Maybe a Shield 2? Please.

[best3444]

It's called Nintendo Super Play. Coming out September 24'. I read all about it yesterday. Gunna be similar to the DS with 2 screens and hooking it up to a TV doesn't require a dock. 

[Littleronin]

11 hours ago, jaethos said:

I'm hopeful for the new thing. I skipped the Switch, so if this has back compat and ends up being decent I'll probably get it and go back to the handful of games I'd want to get to.

Part of me thinks Nintendo won't do BC and put out a release blaming piracy of the reason they didn't do it. 

[Keyser_Soze]

57 minutes ago, Littleronin said:

Part of me thinks Nintendo won't do BC and put out a release blaming piracy of the reason they didn't do it. 

 

But will gladly sell you the switch 2 version of all their Switch 1 games at $70 each!

[gamer.tv]

2 hours ago, Littleronin said:

Part of me thinks Nintendo won't do BC and put out a release blaming piracy of the reason they didn't do it. 

This is just from memory, but they mentioned a big push about linking accounts and possibly purchases in a more meaningful way. Knowing that, it’ll probably BC in a digital capacity, but anything physical won’t work.

[best3444]

It's not backwards compatible. 

[Ghost_MH]

I don't know why folks are so dismissive about backward compatibility. The Switch is the first ever Nintendo portable that wasn't backward compatible and the first home console that wasn't backward compatible since the Gamecube. All of that feels more like a hardware limitation issue than desire issue. There's no way the Switch would be backward compatible with PPC hardware or Wii U disks and it seems Nintendo isn't keen on doing dual screen DS/3DS on the Switch.

 

Nintendo doesn't really do emulation backward compatibility, so if the Switch 2 is still Tegra/ARM I'd say there's a good chance it'll be backward compatible with Switch games or if the box. Maybe just with cartridges that are physically incompatible with the Switch.

[Littleronin]

4 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

Nintendo doesn't really do emulation backward compatibility, so if the Switch 2 is still Tegra/ARM I'd say there's a good chance it'll be backward compatible with Switch games or if the box. Maybe just with cartridges that are physically incompatible with the Switch.

You are right, they let other's do the grunt work on emulation BC and then sue them for it after posting the ROMs for people to play on their storefronts.