Television Loki Season 2 coming Oct 5th (trailer up)

[silentbob]

 

I really enjoyed the first season of the show and look forward to seeing what happens next.

[TwinIon]

Trailer looks fun. Good to see Ke Huy Quan, and I hope his character is more than just a cameo.

 

Still curious to find out what Disney ends up doing with Jonathan Majors.

[Greatoneshere]

20 minutes ago, silentbob said:

 

I really enjoyed the first season of the show and look forward to seeing what happens next.

 

Well, it's going to have a lot of Jonathan Majors in it, should be interesting when this drops.  

[Reputator]

I rewatched Loki Season 1 in preparation for this, and man that show was good. For me personally I think it's up there with Mandalorian as one of the best on Disney+ (never saw Andor).

 

I'm going to finally watch Quantumania too this weekend as I assume that will also be required viewing for Season 2.

 

P.s. The title needs to be updated as this is now starting Oct 5th.

[silentbob]

I’m gonna remind everyone interested that this started today. Gonna head up in a bit and hopefully watch the first episode soon.

[Reputator]

Good start!

[silentbob]

That was a fun start. Plus I like the use of the time slips using for their advantage. Kind of reminded me a lot of the 

Spoiler

ARRIVAL and using past, present and future knowledge into fixing the now. I fucking adore that storytelling reveal in the movie

Also, there is a small mid credit scene.

[Greatoneshere]

Yeah, that was a good first episode, definitely good to have Loki back. Directors Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead (Resolution, Spring, The Endless, Synchronic), who direct four of the six episodes of the season, at least have a few opportunities to break out of the MCU house style as well, similar to what they did with their two episodes of Moon Knight, which was refreshing, in terms of cinematography and directing. Eric Martin, who takes over showrunning duties from Michael Waldron, brings back the same energy and charm the first season had (probably because he was part of the season 1 writers' room, writing episode 4 and co-writing episode 6). I particularly liked, as silentbob mentioned, the use of time by the characters to help the situation despite the insanity going on. Whatever was going on in the future timeline of the TVA that Loki saw before he got pruned didn't look like things were going well.

 

The only thing I was a little disappointed by was the ending of the first season of Loki being essentially a fake out. It was just Loki having gone to a past so long ago that Kang was ruling more openly and no one remembers Loki since its the past and clearly Kang has gone through many cycles of wiping the memories of his TVA slaves. I always thought the season 1 ending was suggesting that since Sylvie killed Kang, the TVA had been reset to a worse Kang, like Kang the Conqueror, taking it over, but that was not the case.

[Reputator]

8 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

I always thought the season 1 ending was suggesting that since Sylvie killed Kang, the TVA had been reset to a worse Kang, like Kang the Conqueror, taking it over, but that was not the case.

 

I made a similar assumption, except not that the TVA had changed, but that there were now multiple TVAs.

 

But I'm not disappointed to be wrong. I have no reason to think this is worse or less interesting.

[johnny]

ke huy quan was awesome 

[Greatoneshere]

7 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I made a similar assumption, except not that the TVA had changed, but that there were now multiple TVAs.

 

But I'm not disappointed to be wrong. I have no reason to think this is worse or less interesting.

 

Yeah, I'm not against the fake-out, but that would have been a more dramatic shift in the status quo than what we got is all. I'm down to roll with that was just the past. And since the TVA is outside of all timelines, it does seem to be the case as a result that there's just one TVA (so while there are multiple dimensions with multiple timelines you can go to the past and future in, there is only one TVA timeline in which one can go back and forth in, which saves us some headache at least). 

[johnny]

at the end of the first season i thought we were essentially going back to square 1 and loki would have to zip through everything again to get mobius and them up to speed which annoyed me. so, glad that didn’t happen. 

[silentbob]

Another real fun episode. Got to see classic Loki doing what he does best with his magic. I also really liked seeing her “loving it” and being the best normal life she can enjoy. Plus I liked the tension and their own fanboyism of itself with the characters. Plus I really liked the key lime pie scene and the honesty from Loki, but I wonder if it’s a link to Morbius timeline/life. Seems like he’s from Florida and had something to do with jet ski.

[Greatoneshere]

Yeah this was another fun episode. Really enjoyed Blindspotting's Rafael Casal actually get to act and the first interrogation scene was excellent. I was also glad to have it clearly confirmed that each timeline also has its own past and future, so there is a distinction between time traveling and alternate dimension traveling. This raises questions I don't think the show will bother to deal with, like if General Dox and her Hunters bombing timelines was from a location in an actual timeline (as opposed to the TVA, which sits outside of time), couldn't Loki and the team just go prior to that point in the timeline and stop them? I couldn't tell if Dox was doing everything from the TVA or elsewhere. Other than that, show is so much better than the recent Secret Invasion so far. I did feel like this episode skipped some things since the last episode ended with X-5 going after Sylvie and Dox and her Hunters raiding the armory, then suddenly in this episode X-5 has already found Sylvie and has become Brad Wolfe and Dox is all set already to pruning timelines. Also Sylvie doesn't acknowledge X-5 at all when at the McDonalds, doesn't seem upset with him in the least, which implies he found her without her knowing but then it's never explained what happened next for X-5 and him going AWOL. You can fill in the blanks but that was strange.

[Jason]

6 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Yeah this was another fun episode. Really enjoyed Blindspotting's Rafael Casal actually get to act and the first interrogation scene was excellent. I was also glad to have it clearly confirmed that each timeline also has its own past and future, so there is a distinction between time traveling and alternate dimension traveling. This raises questions I don't think the show will bother to deal with, like if General Dox and her Hunters bombing timelines was from a location in an actual timeline (as opposed to the TVA, which sits outside of time), couldn't Loki and the team just go prior to that point in the timeline and stop them? I couldn't tell if Dox was doing everything from the TVA or elsewhere. Other than that, show is so much better than the recent Secret Invasion so far. I did feel like this episode skipped some things since the last episode ended with X-5 going after Sylvie and Dox and her Hunters raiding the armory, then suddenly in this episode X-5 has already found Sylvie and has become Brad Wolfe and Dox is all set already to pruning timelines. Also Sylvie doesn't acknowledge X-5 at all when at the McDonalds, doesn't seem upset with him in the least, which implies he found her without her knowing but then it's never explained what happened next for X-5 and him going AWOL. You can fill in the blanks but that was strange.

 

I legit paused the episode and went to double check there were really only two episodes out.

[Reputator]

Another great episode, and a lot of production value. A bigger set, lots of extras, bigger investment in costumes, etc. Big improvement over the typical cheap-looking Disney+ series episode.

 

The plot is getting very dense, but it's really something that deserves a reserving of judgement til the end.

[Greatoneshere]

Yeah, that was a another good and fun episode! Nice to see some actual time traveling and alternate dimension traveling properly for once. And I agree that the sets felt real, 1893 felt very tangible and while we may not like it, regardless of the weird verbal tics to differentiate the different Kangs Majors is doing aa good job playing the character - you can see how he could one day become He Who Remains, but there's pathos in his words and desire to save himself from Sylvie.

 

The only frustrating thing is the show hasn't really laid the character work for Renslayer's and Sylvie's motivations. To stop the TVA from fixing the temporal loom so it can handle all the branching paths that SYLVIE introduced in the first place makes no kind of sense. And Renslayer's motivations seem to change regularly, or aren't clear. Excepting that, another great episode. Surprised more people aren't posting about the show.

[Reputator]

45 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Yeah, that was a another good and fun episode! Nice to see some actual time traveling and alternate dimension traveling properly for once. And I agree that the sets felt real, 1893 felt very tangible and while we may not like it, regardless of the weird verbal tics to differentiate the different Kangs Majors is doing aa good job playing the character - you can see how he could one day become He Who Remains, but there's pathos in his words and desire to save himself from Sylvie.

 

The only frustrating thing is the show hasn't really laid the character work for Renslayer's and Sylvie's motivations. To stop the TVA from fixing the temporal loom so it can handle all the branching paths that SYLVIE introduced in the first place makes no kind of sense. And Renslayer's motivations seem to change regularly, or aren't clear. Excepting that, another great episode. Surprised more people aren't posting about the show.

 

I think because to fix the loom they needed to let one Kang live, which was antithetical for her. But so far no one has pointed out to Sylvie the blatant self-contradiction of wanting to let variants live because they are all different (including herself), and killing every version of Kang because in her mind they're all the same.

[Greatoneshere]

16 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I think because to fix the loom they needed to let one Kang live, which was antithetical for her. But so far no one has pointed out to Sylvie the blatant self-contradiction of wanting to let variants live because they are all different (including herself), and killing every version of Kang because in her mind they're all the same.

 

Yeah that's true - I guess my issue becomes that Loki and all have no choice, the stupid door requires a Kang (or maybe Miss Minutes) to unlock it so they can actually get to the loom. There's just no other way. Hell, Sylvie can kill whichever Kang she likes right afterward. 

[Reputator]

3 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Yeah that's true - I guess my issue becomes that Loki and all have no choice, the stupid door requires a Kang (or maybe Miss Minutes) to unlock it so they can actually get to the loom. There's just no other way. Hell, Sylvie can kill whichever Kang she likes right afterward. 

 

I'm not sure what the purpose of the plot device is to make it so one Kang lives, unless it's to lead to a "redeemed" Kang that saves everyone from the other Kangs, and causes a character arc for Sylvie so she learns a happy lesson about individuality.

 

Incidentally the Kang she killed WAS supposed to be the good Kang, and a derivative of this 19th century one if we can infer that from the plan Miss Minutes and Renslayer are given.

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I'm not sure what the purpose of the plot device is to make it so one Kang lives, unless it's to lead to a "redeemed" Kang that saves everyone from the other Kangs, and causes a character arc for Sylvie so she learns a happy lesson about individuality.

 

Incidentally the Kang she killed WAS supposed to be the good Kang, and a derivative of this 19th century one if we can infer that from the plan Miss Minutes and Renslayer are given.

 

I mean, they imply that Miss Minutes could maybe do it, but Kang's fingerprint is a faster/better option to open the door quicker so it simply seems to be a practical measure. I have every expectation that this Kang becomes He Who Remains or at least not a good Kang. And further evidence this is the "good" Kang (remember, good Kang was still massacring lives and timelines so good is not really good here) is that last season they had the holograms show Kang's history as he explained it and He Who Remains originally is carrying a lantern in the holograms while exploring dimensions, similar to the lantern that Timely holds during his presentation, including the way Timely carries it similar to last season's holograms.

 

Interesting this is a branched timeline Kang and not the sacred timeline one, especially given Renslayer gives the TVA guidebook to sacred timeline Kang, which implies a split has already occurred, if not more than one. Perhaps the sacred timeline Kang appears later in the timeline since it seems not all Kangs are born at the same time and place.

[Reputator]

18 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I mean, they imply that Miss Minutes could maybe do it, but Kang's fingerprint is a faster/better option to open the door quicker so it simply seems to be a practical measure. I have every expectation that this Kang becomes He Who Remains or at least not a good Kang. And further evidence this is the "good" Kang (remember, good Kang was still massacring lives and timelines so good is not really good here) is that last season they had the holograms show Kang's history as he explained it and He Who Remains originally is carrying a lantern in the holograms while exploring dimensions, similar to the lantern that Timely holds during his presentation, including the way Timely carries it similar to last season's holograms.

 

Interesting this is a branched timeline Kang and not the sacred timeline one, especially given Renslayer gives the TVA guidebook to sacred timeline Kang, which implies a split has already occurred, if not more than one. Perhaps the sacred timeline Kang appears later in the timeline since it seems not all Kangs are born at the same time and place.

 

Oh yeah good point.

 

But I also agree that this Kang (Victor) is already different, and there's a chance that he could turn out to be GOOD good, because truthfully I don't know how else the infinite Kang problem can be solved. Definitely not the way Sylvie wants to, or by loads of ass kicking like how the old Avengers solved things.

[Greatoneshere]

23 minutes ago, Reputator said:

Oh yeah good point.

 

But I also agree that this Kang (Victor) is already different, and there's a chance that he could turn out to be GOOD good, because truthfully I don't know how else the infinite Kang problem can be solved. Definitely not the way Sylvie wants to, or by loads of ass kicking like how the old Avengers solved things.

 

Agreed - it'd be a weird message to send to audiences as a Disney/Marvel film that the only solution here is king every single variant of Kang that ever pops up, no questions asked.

[cusideabelincoln]

I almost want to believe there's something wrong with me because I find S2 irritating like most other recent D+ shows. However I rewatched S1, which I originally was neutral about and had a blast. My only big critique in S1 was the shortcut they took to evolve Avenger's bad guy Loki into redeemed Endgame Loki by looking at some tik tok footage, but otherwise the writing was quite good and cohesive.  This season they are taking a lot of shortcuts, especially with characters, and the plot is all over the place. Sylvie is making absolutely no sense in any regard, but I find her contempt of Loki to be most head scratching. Also feels like a lot has been edited out.

 

The tonal shift is also very jarring. This season feels like an imitation of Legends of Tomorrow. 

[Reputator]

3 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

I almost want to believe there's something wrong with me because I find S2 irritating like most other recent D+ shows. However I rewatched S1, which I originally was neutral about and had a blast. My only big critique in S1 was the shortcut they took to evolve Avenger's bad guy Loki into redeemed Endgame Loki by looking at some tik tok footage, but otherwise the writing was quite good and cohesive.  This season they are taking a lot of shortcuts, especially with characters, and the plot is all over the place. Sylvie is making absolutely no sense in any regard, but I find her contempt of Loki to be most head scratching. Also feels like a lot has been edited out.

 

The tonal shift is also very jarring. This season feels like an imitation of Legends of Tomorrow. 

 

I will say it's not as good so far as S1, but I already expected that. S1 was fresh, less complicated, and the characters had more room to grow. You can't replicate the impact of a new idea, which I think the show creators know, so they're taking the Pirates of the Caribbean approach of making the sequel interesting by throwing a lot of plot at it. But that isn't necessarily bad, and there can still be fun to be had with it. 

[cusideabelincoln]

4 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

I will say it's not as good so far as S1, but I already expected that. S1 was fresh, less complicated, and the characters had more room to grow. You can't replicate the impact of a new idea, which I think the show creators know, so they're taking the Pirates of the Caribbean approach of making the sequel interesting by throwing a lot of plot at it. But that isn't necessarily bad, and there can still be fun to be had with it. 

 

The kindest perspective I can have on storytelling is the fact that just about any time travel narrative falls apart when you think about it too much, so they're not bothering to have believable world building for the sake of doing fun and interesting bits. But as is, the plot holes are too distracting for me. They didn't bother to explain why Loki was time slipping; they just wanted to do a bit. They haven't demonstrated why Loki now believes a million bad Kangs are coming; he hasn't seen any proof of malevolence yet. Loki and B-15 have no plan for what the TVA should be doing about these bad Kangs and branched timelines, while Sylvie has a half-baked one. There was no actual reason for X-5 to hold back information, they just wanted to do an interrogation bit. Rennslayer, Ms. Minutes, Loki, Mobius all had the same end goal for 1800's Kang, but the show just faked a reason to fight. The "love triangle" was cringe. In season 1 any oddity that was happening built towards a cohesive story or at least consistency - for example Loki time slipping should mean something to the upcoming story, and why did Loki time slip but Sylvie isn't . It was just an excuse to introduce Ouroboros "The Plot Explainer".

[Greatoneshere]

5 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

The kindest perspective I can have on storytelling is the fact that just about any time travel narrative falls apart when you think about it too much, so they're not bothering to have believable world building for the sake of doing fun and interesting bits. But as is, the plot holes are too distracting for me. They didn't bother to explain why Loki was time slipping; they just wanted to do a bit. They haven't demonstrated why Loki now believes a million bad Kangs are coming; he hasn't seen any proof of malevolence yet. Loki and B-15 have no plan for what the TVA should be doing about these bad Kangs and branched timelines, while Sylvie has a half-baked one. There was no actual reason for X-5 to hold back information, they just wanted to do an interrogation bit. Rennslayer, Ms. Minutes, Loki, Mobius all had the same end goal for 1800's Kang, but the show just faked a reason to fight. The "love triangle" was cringe. In season 1 any oddity that was happening built towards a cohesive story or at least consistency - for example Loki time slipping should mean something to the upcoming story, and why did Loki time slip but Sylvie isn't. It was just an excuse to introduce Ouroboros "The Plot Explainer".

 

While I agree with your overall criticisms, I think you're being unduly harsh on the show. Loki season 2 is different than Loki season 1, which was a very intimate mystery of the TVA kind of show. Season 2 has widened the scope of the genres the TV show Loki can be given unlike season 1 which was more of a mystery show, season 2 is more of a time travelling show so by its very nature its going to feel different than season 1. 

 

Also while you raise some good questions, others have been answered. 1) Loki time slipping is a good example of the show just doing things, as you said. There was no real reason for it and it seems to have been resolved. They obviously wanted to show a future where Sylvie attacks the TVA and that was their way of getting to it. 2) The reason Loki believes a million bad Kangs are coming is because He Who Remains was very convinced that's what would happen with his death given he said he fought the Kang Wars and won, so he's seen this play out - clearly Loki believes him. 3) Loki and B-15 don't have a plan for the TVA and the Kangs, that's true, but that's mostly because they've been having to deal with immediate incident after immediate incident from time slipping to X-5 to Dox to Sylvie to the temporal loom, they haven't had a chance to create a plan, which I think is understandable, they are clearly playing defense so far. 4) While I agree the jump between episodes 1 and 2 was very inelegant, the reason X-5 held back the information was because he'd gone AWOL - he was afraid of the TVA, Dox and Sylvie all at the same time and just wanted to escape, which I think is understandable. Why he was so secretive is weird though, I agree. 

 

I do agree that Renslayer's motivations and the love triangle with Timely was lame as fuck though. Renslayer is the character the show has done the least work with in terms of establishing what it is she wants, etc. I never got the sense in season 1 that she was capable of behaving like this in season 2 so I'm definitely confused on that one. But Renslayer and Ms. Minutes do not have the same goal as Loki and Mobius though. Renslayer and Ms. Minutes obviously do want to save the temporal loom (and thus time itself) but they want to restore things to the way they were when He Who Remains was running things - perfect order, one sacred timeline and that's it, prune the rest. That's not exactly what Loki and Mobius want, as they want to expand the loom to handle the branching timelines and more importantly the lives in those timelines.

 

One thing I find super weird at this point is why Loki hasn't visited his brother Thor via Tem-Pad and let him know he's alive and perhaps what's going on as well. Obviously the Avengers are gonna find out about Kang via Ant-Man because of Quantumania but it's strange for Loki at this point not to visit his brother. Obviously there are contractual and financial reasons to not being able to bring Chris Hemsworth on the show but it is weird.

[cusideabelincoln]

23 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

While I agree with your overall criticisms, I think you're being unduly harsh on the show. Loki season 2 is different than Loki season 1, which was a very intimate mystery of the TVA kind of show. Season 2 has widened the scope of the genres the TV show Loki can be given unlike season 1 which was more of a mystery show, season 2 is more of a time travelling show so by its very nature its going to feel different than season 1. 

 

Also while you raise some good questions, others have been answered. 1) Loki time slipping is a good example of the show just doing things, as you said. There was no real reason for it and it seems to have been resolved. They obviously wanted to show a future where Sylvie attacks the TVA and that was their way of getting to it. 2) The reason Loki believes a million bad Kangs are coming is because He Who Remains was very convinced that's what would happen with his death given he said he fought the Kang Wars and won, so he's seen this play out - clearly Loki believes him. 3) Loki and B-15 don't have a plan for the TVA and the Kangs, that's true, but that's mostly because they've been having to deal with immediate incident after immediate incident from time slipping to X-5 to Dox to Sylvie to the temporal loom, they haven't had a chance to create a plan, which I think is understandable, they are clearly playing defense so far. 4) While I agree the jump between episodes 1 and 2 was very inelegant, the reason X-5 held back the information was because he'd gone AWOL - he was afraid of the TVA, Dox and Sylvie all at the same time and just wanted to escape, which I think is understandable. Why he was so secretive is weird though, I agree. 

 

I do agree that Renslayer's motivations and the love triangle with Timely was lame as fuck though. Renslayer is the character the show has done the least work with in terms of establishing what it is she wants, etc. I never got the sense in season 1 that she was capable of behaving like this in season 2 so I'm definitely confused on that one. But Renslayer and Ms. Minutes do not have the same goal as Loki and Mobius though. Renslayer and Ms. Minutes obviously do want to save the temporal loom (and thus time itself) but they want to restore things to the way they were when He Who Remains was running things - perfect order, one sacred timeline and that's it, prune the rest. That's not exactly what Loki and Mobius want, as they want to expand the loom to handle the branching timelines and more importantly the lives in those timelines.

 

One thing I find super weird at this point is why Loki hasn't visited his brother Thor via Tem-Pad and let him know he's alive and perhaps what's going on as well. Obviously the Avengers are gonna find out about Kang via Ant-Man because of Quantumania but it's strange for Loki at this point not to visit his brother. Obviously there are contractual and financial reasons to not being able to bring Chris Hemsworth on the show but it is weird.

I meant to say Rennslayer and Loki both have the same shorter term goal of just getting Kang to the TVA; the way each party fought it was weird because both parties can travel there at will. So what happens after he gets there is the only thing that matters, not how he gets there.

 

I'll still give the show a chance as there is potential to do interesting things with Ms. Minutes being the lynchpin of knowledge. I'm just not impressed by the execution so far, despite how charismatic individual scenes are.

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

I meant to say Rennslayer and Loki both have the same shorter term goal of just getting Kang to the TVA; the way each party fought it was weird because both parties can travel there at will. So what happens after he gets there is the only thing that matters, not how he gets there.

 

I'll still give the show a chance as there is potential to do interesting things with Ms. Minutes being the lynchpin of knowledge. I'm just not impressed by the execution so far, despite how charismatic individual scenes are.

 

Yeah I can feel you on that in terms of the execution. As for Renslayer and Loki, how do you see that shorter term goal playing out? They'd fight the minute the temporal loom is saved, so fighting ahead of time to establish dominance as opposed to afterward isn't a bridge too far I'd say.

[SuperSpreader]

What the fuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk

 

What the fuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk

 

What the fuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkk

 

[Greatoneshere]

Holy shit, I definitely did not expect that ending! That was a hell of an episode at the end. Obviously we have two more episodes to go so curious to see what they do. Poor Victor Timely. 

[SuperSpreader]

20 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Obviously we have two more episodes to go so curious to see what they

X-Men 

[silentbob]

6 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

X-Men 

Fantastic Four

 

 

Still, Holy Shit a lot happened in that episode 

[SuperSpreader]

12 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Holy shit, I definitely did not expect that ending! That was a hell of an episode at the end. Obviously we have two more episodes to go so curious to see what they do. Poor Victor Timely. 

 

I thought Ravonna was gonna be a He Who Remains/Kang variant and He Who Remains wiped her memory but their union formed the first Kang Council - I thought she was gonna do Victor in and become Kang the Conqueror. I also though the Miss Minutes knew that and wanted to off her to consolidate power with a Kang who might love her. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I thought Ravonna was gonna be a He Who Remains/Kang variant and He Who Remains wiped her memory but their union formed the first Kang Council - I thought she was gonna do Victor in and become Kang the Conqueror. I also though the Miss Minutes knew that and wanted to off her to consolidate power with a Kang who might love her. 

 

That would have been an interesting way to go - but yeah, they clearly had other plans. I'm sure there are other Ravonna variants out there just waiting to slip into the role (this is the problem with multiverses, characters can simply be replaced). I'm sure Timely's death will reverberate across the multiverse, affecting the other Kangs or something.