Reddit to kill third-party apps July 1 with new draconian API pricing and rules

[elbobo]

1 hour ago, ThreePi said:

I personally have only ever used the website via a browser. I generally only read and post comments, I'm not making new topics or posting media.

 

Same here. I do 99% of my reddit browsing on desktop 

[Chris-]

55 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

If you don't want your site taken hostage, don't go to war with the free labor the entire value of your website is based upon.

The wisdom of Reddit’s decision doesn’t justify ruining the experience for everyone else. That’s the kind of logic kids use on a playground when they take their ball and go home. 

[TwinIon]

3 hours ago, Bacon said:

 

Apple scum aren't included, but it does give some idea about how insignificant 3rd party apps are to Reddit's general audience.

 

I guess it depends on now much more than 100M installs the official app has, but I think nearly 10% of the user base is pretty high. For Twitter it was around 1% when they started cracking down on their API years back.

 

There's a whole bunch of evidence that users stick to the default in ~95% of cases, and I'd argue that moving apps is a much more difficult switch than changing a setting.

 

The only instances I can think of where users choose something other than the default more often than not are with web browsers on Windows machines and Google Maps on iOS.

[Jason]

58 minutes ago, Chris- said:

The wisdom of Reddit’s decision doesn’t justify ruining the experience for everyone else.

 

You know what's really going to ruin the experience for everyone else? When reddit becomes an unmoderated 8chan hellscape the way Twitter has because they drove off all the people doing the cleanup work.

[Chris-]

52 minutes ago, Jason said:

You know what's really going to ruin the experience for everyone else? When reddit becomes an unmoderated 8chan hellscape the way Twitter has because they drove off all the people doing the cleanup work.

 

That assumes (a) mods will leave en masse and (b) that they cannot be replaced, neither of which is necessarily true. It's also not an apt comparison because this isn't a matter of changing moderation policies/infrastructure, it's about API pricing/rules, which are completely unrelated. You can try to justify it all you want but it doesn't change how childish it is to fuck up the site for the 90% of users who wouldn't be affected or otherwise don't care, and quite frankly the stunt just makes me hope that reddit tells the remaining 10% to fuck off.

[Fizzzzle]

I feel like I've been starting to see a lot more backlash over the backlash at this point. Most Reddit users don't care, and any sub that continues the boycott is risking getting replaced.

 

What that means going forward, who can say.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

That assumes (a) mods will leave en masse and (b) that they cannot be replaced, neither of which is necessarily true. It's also not an apt comparison because this isn't a matter of changing moderation policies/infrastructure, it's about API pricing/rules, which are completely unrelated. You can try to justify it all you want but it doesn't change how childish it is to fuck up the site for the 90% of users who wouldn't be affected or otherwise don't care, and quite frankly the stunt just makes me hope that reddit tells the remaining 10% to fuck off.

 

Things are 100% going to get noticeably worse if they throw in a bunch of mods who don't know what they're doing and are shackled by the shitty first party moderation tools. 

 

Also it's about API pricing/rules for the tools the unpaid workforce depends on. 

[Jason]

reddit is also massively shooting itself in the dick if they set the precedent of being willing to willy-nilly replace mods. And the regular users are going to notice if the power users who create most of the content bail.

[Chris-]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

Things are 100% going to get noticeably worse if they throw in a bunch of mods who don't know what they're doing and are shackled by the shitty first party moderation tools. 

 

Also it's about API pricing/rules for the tools the unpaid workforce depends on. 

 

1 hour ago, Jason said:

reddit is also massively shooting itself in the dick if they set the precedent of being willing to willy-nilly replace mods. And the regular users are going to notice if the power users who create most of the content bail.

Perhaps, but that still doesn’t justify undermining the site for other users.

[GeneticBlueprint]

5 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

Perhaps, but that still doesn’t justify undermining the site for other users.

Sure it does. Reddit has given them the power to do so by their reliance on these people. 

[Bacon]

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Perhaps, but that still doesn’t justify undermining the site for other users.

 

2 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Sure it does. Reddit has given them the power to do so by their reliance on these people. 

 

And mods have always been understood to have extremely wide latitude to run their subreddits however they see fit, and that if you don't like the decisions the mods on a subreddit you're interested in are making, go make your own subreddit.

[GeneticBlueprint]

I mean it’s sort of like a strike except it’s about tools to do the job and not pay to do the job. If Reddit wants to fire them all and replace them that’s their prerogative.

 

I do agree with the sentiment that this will all blow over though. 

[Ghost_MH]

17 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I do agree with the sentiment that this will all blow over though. 

 

Are the mods at the larger subreddits that actually need these third party tools actually willing to give up their "power"? I feel like the answer is no.

[Chris-]

21 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Sure it does. Reddit has given them the power to do so by their reliance on these people. 

The ability to do it doesn’t justify it, that is insane logic. A poor decision on Reddit’s part does not justify ruining the platform for the majority of users, none of whom are responsible for the decision being made. I struggle to see how it is anything but a massive temper tantrum. 

[CitizenVectron]

50 minutes ago, Chris- said:

The ability to do it doesn’t justify it, that is insane logic. A poor decision on Reddit’s part does not justify ruining the platform for the majority of users, none of whom are responsible for the decision being made. I struggle to see how it is anything but a massive temper tantrum. 

 

If Reddit doesn't want mods to own and run their subs (including shutting them down) then they need to eliminate unpaid mods. 

[Chris-]

3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

If Reddit doesn't want mods to own and run their subs (including shutting them down) then they need to eliminate unpaid mods. 

 

 

[Jason]

Nah, as I said mods have always had extremely wide latitude to run their subreddits however they want, taking them private is just one of those preparatives mods have always had. 

[Chris-]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Nah, as I said mods have always had extremely wide latitude to run their subreddits however they want, taking them private is just one of those preparatives mods have always had. 

 

So? Again, the question at hand is not whether reddit or the mods are right - it's whether or not the mods are justified compromising the site for most users for the sake of their own interests. How is that any different than a kid walking up to an unobserved bowl of Halloween candy and taking the whole thing, other trick-or-treaters be damned? Then telling the kids walking up afterwards, 'Hey, blame the house for putting out the bowl unobserved!'

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, Chris- said:

The ability to do it doesn’t justify it, that is insane logic. A poor decision on Reddit’s part does not justify ruining the platform for the majority of users, none of whom are responsible for the decision being made. I struggle to see how it is anything but a massive temper tantrum. 

By this logic McDs workers shouldn’t strike because more people would be upset that they couldn’t get a Big Mac for a few days. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Are the mods at the larger subreddits that actually need these third party tools actually willing to give up their "power"? I feel like the answer is no.

If they don’t I’m sure Reddit will remove them sooner than later if no competitive sub pops up.  

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

So? Again, the question at hand is not whether reddit or the mods are right - it's whether or not the mods are justified compromising the site for most users for the sake of their own interests. How is that any different than a kid walking up to an unobserved bowl of Halloween candy and taking the whole thing, other trick-or-treaters be damned? Then telling the kids walking up afterwards, 'Hey, blame the house for putting out the bowl unobserved!'

 

Go make your own subreddits if you don't like how the mods of the existing subreddits are behaving.

[Chris-]

1 minute ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

By this logic McDs workers shouldn’t strike because more people would be upset that they couldn’t get a Big Mac for a few days. 

 

I don't think I need to outline the difference between people striking for the sake of their livelihoods and volunteer internet moderators protesting API pricing and rules. 

 

Just now, Jason said:

 

Go make your own subreddits if you don't like how the mods of the existing subreddits are behaving.

 

Go make your own site if you don't like the owner's decisions. Pretty pointless way of looking at it, huh?

[Guest]

I guess I’m also not understanding the insistence that the options are keep things the way they are OR it all descended into chaos. Seems like plenty of room in between.

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

By this logic McDs workers shouldn’t strike because more people would be upset that they couldn’t get a Big Mac for a few days. 

 

Chris would totally cross that picket line. 

[Chris-]

I wouldn't cross a picket line, and I think comparing this to a picket line does an extreme disservice to the importance (and for those participating, the consequences) of striking. This is just a bunch of self-important dweebs gatekeeping content and communities they don't own.

[Jason]

Chris got an MBA and now he thinks he gets to decide what labor is worthy.

[Chris-]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Chris got an MBA and now he thinks he gets to decide what labor is worthy.

Actually I’m pretty sure they decided its worth when they offered to do it for free. 

[Jason]

Still sounds like picking and choosing who's worthy of getting to protest their working conditions to me. 

[CitizenVectron]

24 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I guess I’m also not understanding the insistence that the options are keep things the way they are OR it all descended into chaos. Seems like plenty of room in between.

 

I think the main problem was the very short timeframe. If Reddit had announced this six months out and had a plan to make their own app better, mods (and people who need accessibility apps) would be less upset.

[Jason]

Just now, CitizenVectron said:

 

I think the main problem was the very short timeframe. If Reddit had announced this six months out and had a plan to make their own app better, mods (and people who need accessibility apps) would be less upset.

 

The Apollo dev said that even the ridiculous $20 million a year figure probably would have been workable if there was some kind of phase in, because he has people on subscriptions who would not be due for subscription renewal until well after he was bankrupted by trying to front the money until their renewal came up. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, Chris- said:

 

I don't think I need to outline the difference between people striking for the sake of their livelihoods and volunteer internet moderators protesting API pricing and rules. 

 

 

Go make your own site if you don't like the owner's decisions. Pretty pointless way of looking at it, huh?

You’re the one saying they’re ruining the party for everyone; thus illustrating some importance for the matter. 

[Chris-]

30 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

You’re the one saying they’re ruining the party for everyone; thus illustrating some importance for the matter. 

 

They are factually compromising the user experience, acknowledging that doesn’t entail any kind of value judgement. Is the user experience of Reddit particularly important? Not really, but that doesn’t change the material impact of the blackouts. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

12 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

They are factually compromising the user experience, acknowledging that doesn’t entail any kind of value judgement. Is the user experience of Reddit particularly important? Not really, but that doesn’t change the material impact of the blackouts. 

I mean this doesn’t sound like what you were saying earlier. But I agree that their decision and its impact won’t end up being that important. The big subs will have their teams replaced if they extend this long enough. 

[Bacon]