NCAA announces it will pull events from any state that bans trans athletes

[CitizenVectron]

 

[marioandsonic]

Something something keep politics out of sports

[TyphoidHater]

Good.  I believe NCAA policy is one year post hormone treatments beginning which eliminates the supposed genetic sexual advantages like muscle mass, O2 levels, bone density, etc.

[SimpleG]

I dont know how to ask the question without sounding chudly but what if a male in high school or college athlete legitimately decides that he is a women what keeps him/her from wrecking a female sporting team?

[Firewithin]

havent they done something like this before?  didnt they do something like in one of the carolinas a few years back over something similar or am i thinking of something else?

[CitizenVectron]

13 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I dont know how to ask the question without sounding chudly but what if a male in high school or college athlete legitimately decides that he is a women what keeps him/her from wrecking a female sporting team?

 

This:

 

23 minutes ago, TyphoidHater said:

Good.  I believe NCAA policy is one year post hormone treatments beginning which eliminates the supposed genetic sexual advantages like muscle mass, O2 levels, bone density, etc.

 

[Ghost_MH]

11 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I dont know how to ask the question without sounding chudly but what if a male in high school or college athlete legitimately decides that he is a women what keeps him/her from wrecking a female sporting team?

 

The number of transgender people is a fraction of 1%. Your average non-athletic male in college or any other level doesn't beat your average female athlete. We're basically talking about the planets and the stars aligning while the wind blows eastward and there are exactly three squirrels in my yard. People worry about it, but it just had yet to happen. The closest I can remember is that transgendered high school wrestler that was forced to wrestle girls even though he identified as male and just wiped the floor with ever girl he faced. In that case, though, he wanted to wrestle other boys and the school district just didn't allow it.

[Kal-El814]

33 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I dont know how to ask the question without sounding chudly but what if a male in high school or college athlete legitimately decides that he is a women what keeps him/her from wrecking a female sporting team?

 

 

 

[SimpleG]

30 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The number of transgender people is a fraction of 1%. Your average non-athletic male in college or any other level doesn't beat your average female athlete. We're basically talking about the planets and the stars aligning while the wind blows eastward and there are exactly three squirrels in my yard. People worry about it, but it just had yet to happen. The closest I can remember is that transgendered high school wrestler that was forced to wrestle girls even though he identified as male and just wiped the floor with ever girl he faced. In that case, though, he wanted to wrestle other boys and the school district just didn't allow it.

I would hazard to say the percentage is smaller then 1%, i just didnt know how athletic teams would deal with it if it did come up. 

 

19 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

 

 

I am assuming this alluding to taking hormones but what happens if they are not on hormone blockers?

 

 

 

 

Edit: Just so we are clear I am not arguing about boogie man trans the right love to bring up , I just dont legit know the answers to this stuff.

[Guest]

Get rid of gender segregated sports

[marioandsonic]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

Get rid of gender segregated sports

That's not a bad idea, but that would also open a separate can of worms for teams to deal with.  Would they have to maintain a certain ratio of boys to girls on each team?  If so, what would that ratio be?  What if certain smaller schools can't meet that ratio?

[Air_Delivery]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Get rid of gender segregated sports

 

So then just get rid of female sports then?

[Fizzzzle]

There are some sports that separate based on gender that make no sense. Like one time at the bar I had professional cornhole on, because apparently that's a thing. They had womens/mens/mixed. I was like... it's not exactly like cornhole is a contest of strength or speed. It's a damn bar game.

 

But I think @marioandsonic is right, if you get rid of gender separated sports, in any sport that IS a contest of strength/speed, women would be at a far greater disadvantage, so you'd have to force organizations to have x% of women or something. Not saying it's not worth looking into, but in a lot of sports it sounds more like "let's just make all sports men's sports."

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Air_Delivery said:

 

So then just get rid of female sports then?

 

Hey, curling could still work!

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, SimpleG said:

I dont know how to ask the question without sounding chudly but what if a male in high school or college athlete legitimately decides that he is a women what keeps him/her from wrecking a female sporting team?

 

This is kind of the opposite of your question but it seems the answer is git gud

 

Switching Teams

WWW.CBSNEWS.COM

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Lesley Stahl profiles Harvard swimmer Schuyler Bailar, who may be the first openly transgender male athlete to compete in a NCAA Division I men's sport

 

[Fizzzzle]

I think a lot more education on what exactly hormone treatment does, and the order it does those things in, is in order.

 

It won't happen for the same reason "you can't tell my son that boys sometimes kiss boys" happens

[Guest]

Certainly there are some sports that would be very difficult for female athletes to compete at on the highest level, but I always think about the fact that in the MLB, NBA, and soccer you have absolute studs that are relatively small for their sport. Altuve, Curry, and Messi have all been the best player in their respective sport despite being small.

 

I would wager that females being in sports with males would end with the best females getting way better at their sport due to playing better competition.

 

You could also have divisions based on non-gender physical attributes, like a 6’ and under basketball division.

[CitizenVectron]

7 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Certainly there are some sports that would be very difficult for female athletes to compete at on the highest level, but I always think about the fact that in the MLB, NBA, and soccer you have absolute studs that are relatively small for their sport. Altuve, Curry, and Messi have all been the best player in their respective sport despite being small.

 

I would wager that females being in sports with males would end with the best females getting way better at their sport due to playing better competition.

 

You could also have divisions based on non-gender physical attributes, like a 6’ and under basketball division.

 

It's not just size, though, it's muscle density, center of gravity, and fat percentage. Men (biologically) are simply stronger and faster than women by a decently large amount. Even look at soccer, which is not dominated by giant players—the US women's team, which is the best in the world, is typically on the same level as high-level boy's high school teams. The only time when there wouldn't be a large difference is when the sport doesn't involve much physical movement or rely on muscles much. Otherwise, men will always dominate in a mixed sport. You might get the top 0.1% of women who can compete with the lower levels of the top % of men, but it's rare, and wouldn't result in a balanced sport of almost any kind. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

It's not just size, though, it's muscle density, center of gravity, and fat percentage. Men (biologically) are simply stronger and faster than women by a decently large amount. Even look at soccer, which is not dominated by giant players—the US women's team, which is the best in the world, is typically on the same level as high-level boy's high school teams. The only time when there wouldn't be a large difference is when the sport doesn't involve much physical movement or rely on muscles much. Otherwise, men will always dominate in a mixed sport. You might get the top 0.1% of women who can compete with the lower levels of the top % of men, but it's rare, and wouldn't result in a balanced sport of almost any kind. 

The three guys I mentioned are not as physically gifted as their peers, but are more technically proficient. That is what you would see from the female athletes that make it into the upper tiers of non-gender segregated athletics. Like, there is no reason a female basketball player can’t be a dominate shooter. The other players basically can’t touch you while you are shooting the ball  

 

Baseball is another sport where I think elite female athletes could compete. Probably not easily as pitchers with the sport moving further towards just throwing the ball ridiculously hard. But I think there are top level female athletes who could play infield positions in the future if females regularly competed with males from day one all the way through high school and college.
 

One of the other things that don’t usually get considered here in terms of sports that aren’t only about performance (like track is literally just running a race fastest), is that you can create rule sets that decrease the value of physical superiority. We actually see lots of changes in sports like football to the physical attributes of particular positions based on the rules. Immediately coming to mind is the rise of the speedy tight end in response to rule changes on PI calls. A position that for most of its history was primarily about being wide and strong for blocking moved to being tall/fast for catching passes. And that change happened relatively fast as the rules did.

 

I don’t have specific ideas on rule changes to reduce the effects of being stronger or faster in particular sports, but don’t be sure there aren’t things that can be done to create a more inclusive playing field despite average biological differences!

[Keyser_Soze]

8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The three guys I mentioned are not as physically gifted as their peers, but are more technically proficient. That is what you would see from the female athletes that make it into the upper tiers of non-gender segregated athletics. Like, there is no reason a female basketball player can’t be a dominate shooter. The other players basically can’t touch you while you are shooting the ball  

 

 

Breanna Stewart would dominate at least half of the NBA.

[CitizenVectron]

18 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The three guys I mentioned are not as physically gifted as their peers, but are more technically proficient. That is what you would see from the female athletes that make it into the upper tiers of non-gender segregated athletics. Like, there is no reason a female basketball player can’t be a dominate shooter. The other players basically can’t touch you while you are shooting the ball  

 

Baseball is another sport where I think elite female athletes could compete. Probably not easily as pitchers with the sport moving further towards just throwing the ball ridiculously hard. But I think there are top level female athletes who could play infield positions in the future if females regularly competed with males from day one all the way through high school and college.
 

One of the other things that don’t usually get considered here in terms of sports that aren’t only about performance (like track is literally just running a race fastest), is that you can create rule sets that decrease the value of physical superiority. We actually see lots of changes in sports like football to the physical attributes of particular positions based on the rules. Immediately coming to mind is the rise of the speedy tight end in response to rule changes on PI calls. A position that for most of its history was primarily about being wide and strong for blocking moved to being tall/fast for catching passes. And that change happened relatively fast as the rules did.

 

I don’t have specific ideas on rule changes to reduce the effects of being stronger or faster in particular sports, but don’t be sure there aren’t things that can be done to create a more inclusive playing field despite average biological differences!

 

I'm not disagreeing that some of the absolute best female players could compete in professional male leagues. It would simply be a very small number. In some sports like American football, you might see a few female kickers, for example. In other sports you might see a few more. But it would never be enough to justify only having mixed leagues. 

[Kal-El814]

43 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

the US women's team, which is the best in the world, is typically on the same level as high-level boy's high school teams

 

Is there any evidence to back this up aside from one scrimmage which shouldn’t be generalized from?

[CitizenVectron]

5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Is there any evidence to back this up aside from one scrimmage which shouldn’t be generalized from?

 

The US women's team practices against high school and college-level men's teams with equal results. I am not aware of matches against professional men's teams, though.

EDIT - Also, though I do believe that some sports will never be able to be fully mixed in a meaningful way (at least with current rules and goals for performance), I do believe that they should all be open to women entering men's leagues.

[Kal-El814]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

The US women's team practices against high school and college-level men's teams with equal results. I am not aware of matches against professional men's teams, though.

 

I don’t think scrimmages and friendlies that involve the USWNT are indicative of anything.

[Air_Delivery]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

Certainly there are some sports that would be very difficult for female athletes to compete at on the highest level, but I always think about the fact that in the MLB, NBA, and soccer you have absolute studs that are relatively small for their sport. Altuve, Curry, and Messi have all been the best player in their respective sport despite being small.

 

I would wager that females being in sports with males would end with the best females getting way better at their sport due to playing better competition.

 

You could also have divisions based on non-gender physical attributes, like a 6’ and under basketball division.

Professional women would not be able to compete at the elite high school level in any of those sports.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Professional women would not be able to compete at the elite high school level in any of those sports.

Your position is biased by how sports work today, not how they could work in a situation where we no longer segregate by gender. You can certainly create rule sets in virtually sports that decreases the value of pure athleticism and increases the value of skill.

 

You can actually see this in the realm of gold and discussions about shortening courses, shrinking greens, and enlarging hazards as the sport has seen a big rise in players who hit the ball really far but don’t have the technical skills in the medium and short game.

 

I think about it at even low level rev sports, like kickball. I have a league I’m involved in managing. It’s co-Ed and one of the problems we had for a long time was that other than a few studs, the female players were basically guaranteed outs when kicking. So I suggested we allow for bunting and also require the infielders including the pitcher to stay behind the pitching rubber prior to contact. Immediately the female players began getting in base very regularly because the rules of the game now created a type of play that was much more likely to be successful for weaker kickers. It turns out it is much easier to find girls who run fast than girls who kick far. Being creative with rule sets is incredibly important in having mixed gender sports.

[Air_Delivery]

9 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Your position is biased by how sports work today, not how they could work in a situation where we no longer segregate by gender. You can certainly create rule sets in virtually sports that decreases the value of pure athleticism and increases the value of skill.

 

You can actually see this in the realm of gold and discussions about shortening courses, shrinking greens, and enlarging hazards as the sport has seen a big rise in players who hit the ball really far but don’t have the technical skills in the medium and short game.

 

I think about it at even low level rev sports, like kickball. I have a league I’m involved in managing. It’s co-Ed and one of the problems we had for a long time was that other than a few studs, the female players were basically guaranteed outs when kicking. So I suggested we allow for bunting and also require the infielders including the pitcher to stay behind the pitching rubber prior to contact. Immediately the female players began getting in base very regularly because the rules of the game now created a type of play that was much more likely to be successful for weaker kickers. It turns out it is much easier to find girls who run fast than girls who kick far. Being creative with rule sets is incredibly important in having mixed gender sports.

We are talking about elite levels not your local YMCA. Of course your random slob can get beaten by a woman in a given sport. And I mean even in a game like Chess women don't compete at the highest levels.

 

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women's National Team in a scrimmage - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

---

The match was in preparation for Thursday's USWNT friendly versus Russia

 

[Kal-El814]

4 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

We are talking about elite levels not your local YMCA. Of course your random slob can get beaten by a woman in a given sport.

 

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women's National Team in a scrimmage - CBSSports.com

WWW.CBSSPORTS.COM

---

The match was in preparation for Thursday's USWNT friendly versus Russia

 

 

Read the article, lol. It’s a scrimmage where they weren’t trying. Good lord, if there was a “read the article” sport the men here would get fucking washed.

[Guest]

Ok, you’re just ignoring the conversation. Moving on.

[Air_Delivery]

Just now, Kal-El814 said:

 

Read the article, lol. It’s a scrimmage where they weren’t trying. Good lord, if there was a “read the article” sport the men here would get fucking washed.

I know it was a scrimmage but thats beside the point. It is a fact the best adult women can't beat elite puberty age boys at any given sport.

[Kal-El814]

Just now, Air_Delivery said:

I know it was a scrimmage but thats beside the point. It is a fact the best adult women can't beat elite puberty age boys at any given sport.

 

This is so obviously wrong I don’t know where to begin.

[Air_Delivery]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Ok, you’re just ignoring the conversation. Moving on.

I just don't think you fully grasp the difference. They can do everything you say and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. 

[Air_Delivery]

10 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

This is so obviously wrong I don’t know where to begin.

Nope and you are just delusional if you think otherwise. And I enjoy many women sports

 

For instance the record for 16 year old boys in the 100m dash is 10.44s. The world record for womens 100m is 10.49 a record that hasn't even been close to being touched in 30 years because Flo Jo was roided to the gillls.

[Kal-El814]

Just now, Air_Delivery said:

Nope and you are just delusional if you think otherwise. And I enjoy many women sports

 

For instance the record for 16 year old boys in the 100m dash is 10.44s. The world record for womens 100m is 10.49 a record that hasn't even been close to being touched in 25 years because Flo Jo was roided to the gillls.

 

Then say what you mean, pubescent boys are aged 12+  

[Air_Delivery]

7 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Then say what you mean, pubescent boys are aged 12+  

Yeah I mean you got me there, women could beat elite boys teams at ages some start hitting puberty and others not. Like little league where you have 6' 200 lb bearded kids playing with tiny shimplets.

But about by 15 elite boys can mostly beat world class women.