NCAA announces it will pull events from any state that bans trans athletes

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Nope and you are just delusional if you think otherwise. And I enjoy many women sports

 

For instance the record for 16 year old boys in the 100m dash is 10.44s. The world record for womens 100m is 10.49 a record that hasn't even been close to being touched in 30 years because Flo Jo was roided to the gillls.

Running fast is almost purely an athletic competition once you learn the mechanics of running which even most decent high school track competitors will know. But sports are not purely athletic competitions, they also involve skill. You don’t seem to want to l imagine how you can change the rules, the playing fields, etc. to decrease the value of pure athleticism. And that’s fine, but at least engage with what is actually being discussed!

 

The golf course thing is a perfect example of how you can alter the playing field itself to pretty much end any athletic advantage male athletes on average have over female athletes. Male athletes have virtually no advantage in medium length shots or on the greens, so shortening the hole very quickly drops the only real advantage male athletes have in golf over female athletes.

 

There are other things you can easily work into the rules like requiring say 4 of the 9 positions on the baseball field to be female players. You would very quickly see rulesets that increase the ability of female athletes to be more competitive if clubs had to include female players. Better skills would become much more valuable.

 

All sorts of things would be different if we ditched gender segregation. And yes, some sports would likely see females drop out while other sports would see an increase in participation. That’s fine. Nobody seems bothered that gymnastics is a sport that is participated in far more by females than males.

[Air_Delivery]

Men dominate women even in games like billiards. To abolish gender segregation would eliminate all women from all top levels of all sports.

Hell even in games like Chess where there is for the most part no gender division they still have female only ratings and tournaments because there is only 1 woman in the top 100 rankings.

[Kal-El814]

8 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

Men dominate women even in games like billiards. To abolish gender segregation would eliminate all women from all top levels of all sports.

Hell even in games like Chess where there is for the most part no gender division they still have female only ratings and tournaments because there is only 1 woman in the top 100 rankings.

 

For shit like billiards and chess, it’s almost like they’re pursuits that have been dominated by men and are historically unwelcoming to women.

 

The majority of miniature painters and wargamers are male, there are no sex based advantages to painting or participating in wargaming.

[Air_Delivery]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

For shit like billiards and chess, it’s almost like they’re pursuits that have been dominated by men and are historically unwelcoming to women.

 

The majority of miniature painters and wargamers are male, there are no sex based advantages to painting or participating in wargaming.

Regardless of reasons these are just facts. I don't think completely wiping out women from top levels is gonna help with popularity.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

For shit like billiards and chess, it’s almost like they’re pursuits that have been dominated by men and are historically unwelcoming to women.

 

The majority of miniature painters and wargamers are male, there are no sex based advantages to painting or participating in wargaming.

Yup yup yup. There are so many competitive games where males dominate and there are absolutely no physical advantages, so people lean into tropes like women can’t handle the pressure and other nonsense.

[skillzdadirecta]

What about contact sports like Boxing, Wrestling, MMA and Football? You guys are really gonna say that gender and physics play no part in those sports? Those sports aren't even safe for most MEN and there's a reason why weight classes exist. I think for some sports it would probably make sense for there to be no gender seperation. Others it would defy logic in my opinion. Men and women are physically different. That's just a fact.

 

Tennis is one sport where I think women can compete with men at the highlest levels. Basically anything skill based with little to no contact, I would imagine.

[Air_Delivery]

17 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Yup yup yup. There are so many competitive games where males dominate and there are absolutely no physical advantages, so people lean into tropes like women can’t handle the pressure and other nonsense.

That is all well and good but the end result is the same. Women being wiped out from top levels of competition. Chess is trying to increase popularity among women by having separate rankings and tournaments despite there being no gender restrictions on normal tournaments.

 

I'm not trying to be sexist or mean. I just don't think the best way to encourage women in sports is to eliminate them from top levels. Imagine if Serena Williams was relegated to playing top 500 men. It would be lame as shit. 

 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Tennis is one sport where I think women can compete with men at the highlest levels. Basically anything skill based with little to no contact, I would imagine.

One of the things I continue to find fascinating is how much closer female tennis players are to male tennis players in things like serve velocity compared to pitch velocity. I think ending gender segregation would lead to more females playing the sports in which biological differences are of lesser importance, even with the obvious end that rules, fields, and equipment would be different in a world where males and females play together.

[skillzdadirecta]

Tennis relies so much on skill and technique rather than brute strength... that's probably why the disparites between sexes are not as pronounced.

[Kal-El814]

57 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

What about contact sports like Boxing, Wrestling, MMA and Football? You guys are really gonna say that gender and physics play no part in those sports? Those sports aren't even safe for most MEN and there's a reason why weight classes exist. I think for some sports it would probably make sense for there to be no gender seperation. Others it would defy logic in my opinion. Men and women are physically different. That's just a fact.

 

Tennis is one sport where I think women can compete with men at the highlest levels. Basically anything skill based with little to no contact, I would imagine.

 

Sexual dimorphism is a thing, I don't know anyone that denies that. At at the highest levels of competition it's magnified because everything is.

 

I think it's still assumed to have more of a role than it does in many areas; people thought women were biologically worse at math for a loooooooooong time.

 

The tennis example is an interesting one; I think the Williams sisters got washed by a man ranked 253 in the world at some point. 253 people better than the Williamses seems like a lot until you realize they're still better than almost every man on the planet who plays tennis.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

For shit like billiards and chess, it’s almost like they’re pursuits that have been dominated by men and are historically unwelcoming to women.

 

The majority of miniature painters and wargamers are male, there are no sex based advantages to painting or participating in wargaming.

 

Exactly. In any sport where the only difference is practice (in other words, games of the mind), the main obstacle for women is that there often isn't the same infrastructure in place to develop players. However, I believe that would be the case if you merged all people into mixed leagues. Perhaps sbl's suggestion of placing new limiting rules would fix this (though that could cause issues in many sports where the raw athleticism is encouraged/celebrated), but my worry would be that if you mix leagues and you end up with a 99:1 ratio of men to women, then you're going to see the disappearance of many women from the lower levels of play, as well. We already see that today, where boys enter many sports at a huge ratio compared to girls, simply because there is the "dream" of going pro one day (where the equivalent league for women isn't as developed or celebrated). I think that mixing leagues would only make it worse, assuming you kept the same rules.

 

I think that you could modify the rules of some sports, but I'm not sure if you could do it well for all sports. For instance, how could you modify American football to approach having half of players be women (and compete on the same level)? Maybe if you eliminated tackling altogether, as well as linebackers (so make it more like flag football, no contact allowed). Even then, men run so much faster than women that it would still be almost impossible for women to excel.

[Guest]

I feel like part of the disconnect here between the what is and what could be is that we live in a world in which sports evolved almost exclusively for the participation of males. I'm thinking about what it would be like if we moved away from the construct we as a society created and simply included everybody in our competitive activities. I think they would all look very different from how they are today.

[ort]

It's also a sample size thing. Culturally, women just aren't as into sports. For every young girl who tries baseball and loves it, there are probably 1,000 boys who do the same. We can and should do things to encourage girls to try more sports...

 

But there is just no realistic way integrated sports would work at higher levels.

 

Let's just look at hockey for a second. The best women's hockey team in the country practices by playing boys high school teams. If an NHL team played a high school hockey team, the final score would probably be like 30-0. I would be surprised if the high school team got more than a single shot. It would be a ridiculous spectacle. That's not hyperbole.

 

This is not me being anti-woman. This is me being a realist. If you got rid of women's leagues, women just wouldn't be able to play at a high level. It would make the situation worse. It would make the situation for top level female athletes worse.

 

 

[Fizzzzle]

30 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I feel like part of the disconnect here between the what is and what could be is that we live in a world in which sports evolved almost exclusively for the participation of males. I'm thinking about what it would be like if we moved away from the construct we as a society created and simply included everybody in our competitive activities. I think they would all look very different from how they are today.

At that point you're talking about inventing new sports, which I love, but with a lot of sports today being based at least in part on speed/strength, it's not going to happen.

 

Maybe professional cornhole will be a bigger thing some day.

 

(It won't. Having watched professional cornhole more than I'd care to admit from Tuesday daytime bar shifts, once people get really good at cornhole and they aren't drinking while they're playing, that game gets real boring real fast)

 

I envision a game that somehow enables a turn-based tactics system you see in fire emblem or valkyria chronicles. Something where movement and positioning and strategy is more important than simply getting as far as you can, as fast as you can. Maybe someone smarter than me could devise a sport on that concept.

[Iculus]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

I feel like part of the disconnect here between the what is and what could be is that we live in a world in which sports evolved almost exclusively for the participation of males. I'm thinking about what it would be like if we moved away from the construct we as a society created and simply included everybody in our competitive activities. I think they would all look very different from how they are today.

Yep. The quality of the opponent will almost always dictate the quality of the athlete (unless you are Katie Ledecky). It's impossible to draw any conclusions about how women would perform against men without them actually competing against men. This would have to be a generational test study. You can't just say best v. best at this point.