Sony Horizon Forbidden West - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry hands-on with PC version

[BloodyHell]

On 3/3/2022 at 8:48 PM, best3444 said:

 

You're going to give Horizon a shot? I really think you should and Alloy is not a bad character. 

You think so?

 

I thought Aloy was both annoying and a bit unlikeable, and it's the world and story happening around her that made the game interesting. 

I got sick of her "I'm the chosen one, only I can do it, I don't want your help" attitude. 

Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, but I think Aloy is Sony's least interesting Character in a very long time. Especially after Jin, Abby, Elly, etc etc. Also, her constant breathy whispering. I hear they fixed her never shutting up though, which is nice. I don't care if it's in your stash for later, Aloy. 

[best3444]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

You think so?

 

I thought Aloy was both annoying and a bit unlikeable, and it's the world and story happening around her that made the game interesting. 

I got sick of her "I'm the chosen one, only I can do it, I don't want your help" attitude. 

Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, but I think Aloy is Sony's least interesting Character in a very long time. Especially after Jin, Abby, Elly, etc etc. Also, her constant breathy whispering. I hear they fixed her never shutting up though, which is nice. I don't care if it's in your stash for later, Aloy. 

 

I was just trying to get @Biggie to play the game. I find her annoying and uninteresting. 

[Biggie]

19 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I was just trying to get @Biggie to play the game. I find her annoying and uninteresting. 

Nah, all that bow combat ain’t my thing. 

[SaysWho?]

33 minutes ago, Biggie said:

Nah, all that bow combat ain’t my thing. 

 

I think it depends on the game. I'm usually not a fan of bow combat for whatever reason, but Horizon makes it feel good and rewarding. Maybe it's also partly because of the kind of weapons you have at your disposal.

 

Maybe you can try it in in two years once you've exhausted everything in Elden Ring and GT7.  

[Brian]

12 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

I find this so weird. I exclusively use sleep mode, and have never had a problem with it. 

Your machine is fully updated?

If so, I'd have sent it to Sony, because that's some bs.

Yea it is fully updated. This has been an issue since Day 1 no matter the game.  I tried a different surge protector but still an issue. I do think it is PSU related because depending on the load, it can make an extremely loud buzzing noise. My plan was always to buy a second PS5 and if that one was better to sell this one. Unfortunately I can’t find one.  

[BloodyHell]

11 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Yea it is fully updated. This has been an issue since Day 1 no matter the game.  I tried a different surge protector but still an issue. I do think it is PSU related because depending on the load, it can make an extremely loud buzzing noise. My plan was always to buy a second PS5 and if that one was better to sell this one. Unfortunately I can’t find one.  

Oh, you're the member who everyone told to send the unit back for repair, and for some weird reason you wouldn't, right?

 

Ypu should have sent it for repair when it was new. Send it in, Sony's turnaround is quick.

[Kal-El814]

Credits are rolling. It’s really quite good. I like a lot of the characters, I think a sequel could go to some interesting places. I think it’s a few QOL improvements and a little more variety / a little more balance away from being an all timer. As it stands it’s really solid. 

[stepee]

5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Credits are rolling. It’s really quite good. I like a lot of the characters, I think a sequel could go to some interesting places. I think it’s a few QOL improvements and a little more variety / a little more balance away from being an all timer. As it stands it’s really solid. 

 

Agreed on all counts! Really hoping they put out an all time classic for H3, I could see it.

[best3444]

Great to hear. I'll eventually play it after Elden Ring. I'll have to settle for the PS4 Pro version.  

[johnny]

this game is huge man 

[legend]

51 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Credits are rolling. It’s really quite good. I like a lot of the characters, I think a sequel could go to some interesting places. I think it’s a few QOL improvements and a little more variety / a little more balance away from being an all timer. As it stands it’s really solid. 

 

I still have a ways to go, but that sounds pretty consistent with where I am with it now. There are some annoying things, but the highs are really high.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

Agreed on all counts! Really hoping they put out an all time classic for H3, I could see it.

 

Some non-spoilery thoughts...

 

I could have done with some less demanding requirements to level up the best gear. I think my finish timer was 80+ hours ish at the end and I had 2 legendary weapons at level 2 and one legendary armor set at level 3. I played on hard and if I was going to farm to be fully kitted out, it would have taken a fucking eternity. I ran from very few enemy sites, always made a point of carving off crafting parts and I was still way, way far away from maxing out even ONE legendary item. This isn't necessary obviously but it feels good  I dunno how I'd balance it, maybe have kit start less good and have fewer very rare / legendary parts for upgrades? Or I could get over my gaming compulsiveness, but it feels easier to bend developers to my whim IDK.

 

The map felt a lot better than the original, aside from the climbing weirdness which never really got much better. There are a few times when the game wanted me to climb something but I cliffhorse'd my way up instead because it's easier / quicker. Any game with climbing should take a page from BotW or even Jedi Fallen Order and give you something that lets you climb more quickly. It just feels good. But just... give me infinite fast travel. The sleeping bags in this game are silly and unnecessary.

 

Also I cannot count the number of times Aloy would be on the edge of a mountain, cliff, wall, structure, etc., and simply... not pull herself up even when there's no visible obstacle, she'd need to sidle over a bit before she went up. AND the number of times there were grabby things that she'd refuse to move to without going down / around even though it's within an arm's reach. I appreciate the game is doing more than the original where you could only grasp yellow stuff so I enjoy the greater freedom, but this could use more polish.

 

More traversal on bigger mounts = good. The game feels more alive than the original, which is nice.

 

Honestly my biggest knock is still hit detection. It's fine for most enemies but for some of the big guys, Tiderippers and Shellsnappers in particular, it's shockingly bad. 

 

And I think I said it elsewhere, but this game really does a great job of having a diverse cast. They also, in general, do a pretty good job of not being deterministic about the tribes. Yeah Oseram are tinkers and drinkers and the Carja are sophisticated, etc., but if you do enough side quests it's handled a lot better than the usual, fictional, "everyone in this group is like THIS," stuf.

 

Some story / character / ending spoilers and speculation.

 

Spoiler

I liked almost all the characters that end up in your base a lot. Erend is much better in this game. Kotallo is straight up great. By the very end, I was... a LIIIIIIITTLE disappointed in Sylens' whole, "you just wouldn't understand, Aloy," explanation for keeping her out of the loop. I like where he ended up but his plan depends entirely on his ability to perfectly predict the behavior of people he barely knows while he underestimates the person he probably knows best? It's a little disappointing that so much of the game exists because they don't even try to hash it out. And Tilda's heel turn was a bit much. She's been alive a thousand years, sweating Elisabet that whole time, saw all of Aloy's life through her old focus, and her plan was, "surely the two millionth machine Aloy fights will be the one she loses to!" Boo.

 

The Zeniths going out like clowns was a little bit of a letdown even though the machines dunking on them was fun to watch.

 

I think the game leaves off in an interesting spot. Nemesis as described seems like it should just be able to ping AIs on earth again and make things weird, and I have no idea how they're supposed to fight it. Maybe Horizon 3 will be... in.. spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace

 

[stepee]

30 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Some non-spoilery thoughts...

 

I could have done with some less demanding requirements to level up the best gear. I think my finish timer was 80+ hours ish at the end and I had 2 legendary weapons at level 2 and one legendary armor set at level 3. I played on hard and if I was going to farm to be fully kitted out, it would have taken a fucking eternity. I ran from very few enemy sites, always made a point of carving off crafting parts and I was still way, way far away from maxing out even ONE legendary item. This isn't necessary obviously but it feels good  I dunno how I'd balance it, maybe have kit start less good and have fewer very rare / legendary parts for upgrades? Or I could get over my gaming compulsiveness, but it feels easier to bend developers to my whim IDK.

 

The map felt a lot better than the original, aside from the climbing weirdness which never really got much better. There are a few times when the game wanted me to climb something but I cliffhorse'd my way up instead because it's easier / quicker. Any game with climbing should take a page from BotW or even Jedi Fallen Order and give you something that lets you climb more quickly. It just feels good. But just... give me infinite fast travel. The sleeping bags in this game are silly and unnecessary.

 

Also I cannot count the number of times Aloy would be on the edge of a mountain, cliff, wall, structure, etc., and simply... not pull herself up even when there's no visible obstacle, she'd need to sidle over a bit before she went up. AND the number of times there were grabby things that she'd refuse to move to without going down / around even though it's within an arm's reach. I appreciate the game is doing more than the original where you could only grasp yellow stuff so I enjoy the greater freedom, but this could use more polish.

 

More traversal on bigger mounts = good. The game feels more alive than the original, which is nice.

 

Honestly my biggest knock is still hit detection. It's fine for most enemies but for some of the big guys, Tiderippers and Shellsnappers in particular, it's shockingly bad. 

 

And I think I said it elsewhere, but this game really does a great job of having a diverse cast. They also, in general, do a pretty good job of not being deterministic about the tribes. Yeah Oseram are tinkers and drinkers and the Carja are sophisticated, etc., but if you do enough side quests it's handled a lot better than the usual, fictional, "everyone in this group is like THIS," stuf.

 

Some story / character / ending spoilers and speculation.

 

  Hide contents

I liked almost all the characters that end up in your base a lot. Erend is much better in this game. Kotallo is straight up great. By the very end, I was... a LIIIIIIITTLE disappointed in Sylens' whole, "you just wouldn't understand, Aloy," explanation for keeping her out of the loop. I like where he ended up but his plan depends entirely on his ability to perfectly predict the behavior of people he barely knows while he underestimates the person he probably knows best? It's a little disappointing that so much of the game exists because they don't even try to hash it out. And Tilda's heel turn was a bit much. She's been alive a thousand years, sweating Elisabet that whole time, saw all of Aloy's life through her old focus, and her plan was, "surely the two millionth machine Aloy fights will be the one she loses to!" Boo.

 

The Zeniths going out like clowns was a little bit of a letdown even though the machines dunking on them was fun to watch.

 

I think the game leaves off in an interesting spot. Nemesis as described seems like it should just be able to ping AIs on earth again and make things weird, and I have no idea how they're supposed to fight it. Maybe Horizon 3 will be... in.. spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace

 

 

Yuppppp at gear requirements. Ridiculous. I tried to kill like 4 storm birds too and never got the parts I needed so said fuck it, other things still didn’t have a dino site target for me even though I cleared all tall necks. I don’t think they are reasonable and should just simply be easier target sites. Level 40-45 dino is enough challenge to earn elite upgrade components. They could also give hints at least for targets you haven’t found the site for yet.

 

And yeah the traversal needs to be further overhauled, that’s the biggest thing for me even over hit detection. It was especially hard coming off Dying Light 2 which has amazing traversal where you can freely climb everything. It seemed often that the gameplay designers and artists were fighting each other in game as complex geometry designs become very unclear hit and miss areas of climbing ability. Ledges are 100% completely random if you can climb them or not.

 

As for the ending FUCK YEAH

WE GOING TO SPACE. I agree that the tilda heel turn was completely unnecessary, made her character unnecessary, and was infinitely less interesting than her remaining an ally. Excited about the further space threat and possibilities though. I hope Sylens further becomes more of a companion than an antagonist, he can have his rivalry, but it’s not convincing to me at this point to have him as a possible villain.

[Kal-El814]

25 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Yuppppp at gear requirements. Ridiculous. I tried to kill like 4 storm birds too and never got the parts I needed so said fuck it, other things still didn’t have a dino site target for me even though I cleared all tall necks. I don’t think they are reasonable and should just simply be easier target sites. Level 40-45 dino is enough challenge to earn elite upgrade components. They could also give hints at least for targets you haven’t found the site for yet.

 

And yeah the traversal needs to be further overhauled, that’s the biggest thing for me even over hit detection. It was especially hard coming off Dying Light 2 which has amazing traversal where you can freely climb everything. It seemed often that the gameplay designers and artists were fighting each other in game as complex geometry designs become very unclear hit and miss areas of climbing ability. Ledges are 100% completely random if you can climb them or not.

 

As for the ending FUCK YEAH

  Hide contents

WE GOING TO SPACE. I agree that the tilda heel turn was completely unnecessary, made her character unnecessary, and was infinitely less interesting than her remaining an ally. Excited about the further space threat and possibilities though. I hope Sylens further becomes more of a companion than an antagonist, he can have his rivalry, but it’s not convincing to me at this point to have him as a possible villain.

 

 

Oh shoot, I forgot that stuff about Dreadwing sites not popping up on the map after scanning all Tallboys. Had to google that. Drops and Apex versions being at least partially up to RNG means I’m never getting max gear. You don’t need it for Platinum, but still! It feels good to be OP at the end of these games. Let me be OP!

 

Spoiler

Sylens is in a weird place. The stuff he’s implied to have done in his past and the stuff we know he did in the first one are pretty bad. But now that he’s sticking around and Beta should know a lot of the stuff he’d want to know… I dunno where they’ll go with him.

 

Now that Team Aloy can fly I guess it’s possible they could do the next one anywhere on earth. They’ve done enough to establish there are other potential things people might have done to / ways they could have survived.

 

Stuff on earth is weird. They could change this, but… if they don’t get Hephaestus back again, the world is doomed even if Nemesis doesn’t show up. Buuuuut if they DO get it back, presumably Gaia could make all the machines non aggressive.

 

But yeah, space seems likely too! I’m excited.

 

[legend]

The gear leveling is probably my biggest pet peeve. I only just recently finally ditched my starting hunting bow. Not that there weren't other hunting bows, but they all seemed at best as good as the starting one until I got the one you trade hunting ground medals for.

 

I was similarly deeply disappointing in the hunting ground medal sharpshooter bow. It looked solid, until I realized it required a special kind of rare resources to craft ammo for which made it all but useless. It's like they didn't want you to enjoy getting and using new gear in this game.

[SaysWho?]

 

[best3444]

The climbing complaints are very discouraging for me. After playing Valhalla and Dying Light 2 this will be difficult to adjust too. I'm thinking the PS4 Pro version will look pretty solid @stepee with it running at 30. I still look forward to it. 

[BloodyHell]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:03 AM, best3444 said:

The climbing complaints are very discouraging for me. After playing Valhalla and Dying Light 2 this will be difficult to adjust too. I'm thinking the PS4 Pro version will look pretty solid @stepee with it running at 30. I still look forward to it. 

There is nothing wrong with the climbing in this game. There's absolutely no need to be able to climb everything. 

Also, play in performance mode, it's just better. 

[best3444]

58 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

There is nothing wrong with the climbing in this game. There's absolutely no need to be able to climb everything. 

Also, play in performance mode, it's just better. 

 

Interesting. Is there a performance mode on the PS4 Pro?

[BloodyHell]

28 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Interesting. Is there a performance mode on the PS4 Pro?

I think there usually is on everything but base models, right?

[best3444]

11 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I think there usually is on everything but base models, right?

 

I'll find out. But I'm not touching this until I'm completely finished with Elden Ring so that's going to be a long time.

[Kal-El814]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:09 PM, legend said:

The gear leveling is probably my biggest pet peeve. I only just recently finally ditched my starting hunting bow. Not that there weren't other hunting bows, but they all seemed at best as good as the starting one until I got the one you trade hunting ground medals for.

 

I was similarly deeply disappointing in the hunting ground medal sharpshooter bow. It looked solid, until I realized it required a special kind of rare resources to craft ammo for which made it all but useless. It's like they didn't want you to enjoy getting and using new gear in this game.

 

Yeah, it's weird. I had a fully upgraded blue bow that lasted me almost the whole game. It's one of those things that doesn't actually matter but it feels kinda bad? Again, as someone who did probably 85% of the sidequests before finishing the game, always knocked off anything the game said was a crafting component, and played 80 hours-ish, I was nowhere near close to upgrading a single bit of legendary loot. 

 

I wonder if it'll get balanced in a patch.

[Phaseknox]

2 hours ago, best3444 said:

Is there a performance mode on the PS4 Pro?

No, it displays at the same resolution as performance mode on PS5 but runs at 30fps.

 

1 hour ago, best3444 said:

I'm not touching this until I'm completely finished with Elden Ring so that's going to be a long time.

So basically never. 

[Brian]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:03 AM, best3444 said:

The climbing complaints are very discouraging for me. After playing Valhalla and Dying Light 2 this will be difficult to adjust too. I'm thinking the PS4 Pro version will look pretty solid @stepee with it running at 30. I still look forward to it. 

The climbing is the same form the first game. It’s fine. I actually did what @stepee mentioned and turned on the option to have all climbing areas to be highlighted. 

[best3444]

13 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

The climbing is the same form the first game. It’s fine. I actually did what @stepee mentioned and turned on the option to have all climbing areas to be highlighted. 

 

Ok, good. Yea, I'll turn that option on, too.

[BloodyHell]

3 hours ago, best3444 said:

 

Ok, good. Yea, I'll turn that option on, too.

Even if you don't keep it on, it's just a button click to show where you can climb. 

[Kal-El814]

18 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Even if you don't keep it on, it's just a button click to show where you can climb. 

 

There are many, many, many times where Aloy doesn’t climb where you think she should even when the grab points are visible. You rarely climb under duress in the game so it’s not a deal breaker, but it’s still very often sloppy. To be clear this is mainly in the “open” climbing areas and segments, if there are specific routes you need to climb up a building or something, it’s rarely an issue there.

[johnny]

the climbing should be more smooth 

[SaysWho?]

I thought I might dislike the Poseidon area since it was underwater, but I actually ended up REALLY liking it, especially

Spoiler

the fight against the tideripper.

It's also just a beautiful area.

[best3444]

I was thinking of taking a break from Elden Ring and booting this up. I just despise that I don't have the PS5 version. It makes me pretty sad actually. Especially since I'm a graphics whore. 

[Phaseknox]

8 hours ago, best3444 said:

I was thinking of taking a break from Elden Ring and booting this up. I just despise that I don't have the PS5 version. It makes me pretty sad actually. Especially since I'm a graphics whore. 

It looks great on my PS4 Slim, and it will look even better on your PS4 Pro. It probably has the best graphics that I’ve seen for a PS4 game, I think that you’ll be fine with it’s visuals.

[johnny]

17 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

I thought I might dislike the Poseidon area since it was underwater, but I actually ended up REALLY liking it, especially

  Hide contents

the fight against the tideripper.

It's also just a beautiful area.

im really enjoying the big fights they do in this game 

[BloodyHell]

9 hours ago, johnny said:

im really enjoying the big fights they do in this game 

The boss arenas are really good.

[SaysWho?]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:40 PM, BloodyHell said:

The boss arenas are really good.

 

Been doing the arena slowly in between everything else. 

 

I actually have been enjoying the stuff they've added with underwater caverns and relic ruins. I think they probably could have cut some side missions out of the game -- I don't think I'll be getting to all of them, lol -- but the other side stuff they added, and then the board game, are actually quite a bit of fun.

 

There's definitely more of a sense of progression in this game and more sense of discovery. It's not perfect, but it's a huge step from their first attempt. 

[Kal-El814]

27 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Been doing the arena slowly in between everything else. 

 

I actually have been enjoying the stuff they've added with underwater caverns and relic ruins. I think they probably could have cut some side missions out of the game -- I don't think I'll be getting to all of them, lol -- but the other side stuff they added, and then the board game, are actually quite a bit of fun.

 

There's definitely more of a sense of progression in this game and more sense of discovery. It's not perfect, but it's a huge step from their first attempt. 

 

Yeah it’s really good.

 

As someone who plays a lot of tabletop games, I have mixed feelings about something like Strike. It’s cute, but as a game I’d say it’s… not good.  I appreciate how hard it is to make a good board game, so it’s not surprising that a one inside a videogame can’t really hang.

 

I’d agree that there are probably too many side quests, though I do appreciate that none of them feel like they didn’t get TLC. The stuff for your companions tends to be the best fleshed out though, which isn’t surprising.

 

And I liked the underwater stuff. If they added some underwater combat to the next one I’d be pumped on that.

 

My only progression beef is what I mentioned before… the resources you get for upgrading feel woefully inadequate compared to what you need. If you max something blue or purple out, that’s almost certainly going to be your kit for the whole game. Gimmie more stuff or clip the upgrade requirements, or something. I had to force myself to use worse, non-upgraded weapons out of curiosity because despite popping the platinum when I finished the game, only one of my late game gear was upgraded at all, and I think it was to level 2. On hard mode, some of the big machines take an eternity to beat if you’re not using upgraded gear. So it was a downer to clear the arena, buy the loot, and realize I’d never be using it. Just lemme buy the components at that point, there’s even a compelling lore reason; if they can farm the toughest monsters for me to punch, surely they can sell me the 75 Slitherfang Earthgrinders I want.

 

All in all though, minor complaints for a game that I was expecting to be good and it exceeded those expectations. With some better pacing and a bit more variety I think the third could be an all timer.