General Gaming Jedi Academy dev promises to fix mistake that let PC gamers slaughter console players

[Jason]

PC players with 17 years experience joined brand-new console lobbies for easy kills.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

When crossplay goes so very, very wrong 

[Bacon]

[atom631]

i absolutely love the idea of crossplay. i think its a fantastic step in the right direction for gaming and super consumer-friendly. however - i dont want it forced down my throat. i should have the option to toggle what platforms i want to play with or without. 

 

crossplay is fucking up COD: Warzone right now bc of the insane amount of PC hackers that are ruining games. Sony being a total cunt (which actually worked out) allowed crossplay with concessions that their players can opt out of crossplay. This allows them to play groundwar and warzone without PC players. MS on the other hand didn't put these restrictions in and players cannot toggle it off and play those modes. 

 

As an xbox player, i would absolutely love to not play with PC players. Aside from all the hackers being PC players, they have a higher FPS, FOV and KBM. Its a huge advantage (even though they will bitch the aim-assist is too strong-  yet none switch to controller on PC to reap all the benefits of both ).  

 

 

[Brick]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:48 PM, atom631 said:

i absolutely love the idea of crossplay. i think its a fantastic step in the right direction for gaming and super consumer-friendly. however - i dont want it forced down my throat. i should have the option to toggle what platforms i want to play with or without. 

 

crossplay is fucking up COD: Warzone right now bc of the insane amount of PC hackers that are ruining games. Sony being a total cunt (which actually worked out) allowed crossplay with concessions that their players can opt out of crossplay. This allows them to play groundwar and warzone without PC players. MS on the other hand didn't put these restrictions in and players cannot toggle it off and play those modes. 

 

As an xbox player, i would absolutely love to not play with PC players. Aside from all the hackers being PC players, they have a higher FPS, FOV and KBM. Its a huge advantage (even though they will bitch the aim-assist is too strong-  yet none switch to controller on PC to reap all the benefits of both ).  

 

 

 

I believe there is a setting within the main Xbox settings that will turn off crossplay for all games. 

 

Also aim assist isn't really that strong. It's not going to snap your sights onto an enemy in multiplayer like it does in singleplayer, so keyboard and mouse players still have the advantage, at least from a distance as it might be a little easier to stay on target with a controller when at point blank range. PC players complaining about aim assist are just salty they got shot. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Switch players should get good.

[atom631]

14 hours ago, Brick said:

 

I believe there is a setting within the main Xbox settings that will turn off crossplay for all games. 

 

Also aim assist isn't really that strong. It's not going to snap your sights onto an enemy in multiplayer like it does in singleplayer, so keyboard and mouse players still have the advantage, at least from a distance as it might be a little easier to stay on target with a controller when at point blank range. PC players complaining about aim assist are just salty they got shot. 

 

there is a setting for xbox, but it only works for the core MP modes. it doesnt work for groundwar and warzone. if you have crossplay disabled, it will require you to re-enable it before being able to play. kinda lame. 

 

I agree about aim-assist- in COD - i still use it, but i am using precision mode - which is the lowest amount of aim-assist before turning it off. i actually like it better this way as i feel it gives me more control over target acquisition. but watch any big PC streamers and they constantly bitching about aim-assist. its absurd. 

[Xbob42]

6 hours ago, atom631 said:

 

there is a setting for xbox, but it only works for the core MP modes. it doesnt work for groundwar and warzone. if you have crossplay disabled, it will require you to re-enable it before being able to play. kinda lame. 

 

I agree about aim-assist- in COD - i still use it, but i am using precision mode - which is the lowest amount of aim-assist before turning it off. i actually like it better this way as i feel it gives me more control over target acquisition. but watch any big PC streamers and they constantly bitching about aim-assist. its absurd. 

I think you guys are underselling the value of a feature like aim assist in a shooter designed like CoD.

In something like the Battle Royale mode, it's much less likely to be a defining factor, although it still matters. But in CoD's normal maps, every tiny bit of map and gameplay design is there to benefit aim assist. The narrow, hallway-like design of so many areas means you don't often need to sweep your view very far to acquire targets. The almost complete lack of verticality sans the occasional upper platform or like a 5 foot dip means that you very rarely have to aim up or down very much. The maps aren't completely flat, but they're close enough to it compared to games really designed around it, like ye olde Quake 3 or Unreal.

 

Then you've got a super quick TTK, meaning that the benefit of being able to turn around quickly and fire back is reduced dramatically. It'll happen sometimes, but usually if you get the drop on someone, they're dead before they can react, KBM or no. Combine this with super slow relative to PC shooters movement speed where it's really easy to follow a moving target, no real defensive mobility options, sprinting putting your weapon away, etc, and every advantage of playing on KBM starts to get frayed. And that's all just general gamepad FPS design, without even taking into account aim assist, which is just a friendly way of saying aimbot. Because that's all it is. A low-grade aimbot because aiming and shooting (the very essence of what an FPS is supposed to be) on two goofy sticks just doesn't work very well. Of course people will wind up salty when they have to actually aim and hit every target in the game when someone else doesn't. It's like playing two different versions of the same game.

The correct solution would be separating KBM and gamepad players like most games do, but they didn't. So controller guys get to bitch that they get wrecked because KBM does still have an advantage, but dying to someone using a controller and watching the ridiculous death cam is never going to result in someone going "Wow that was a good fight," because the actual player didn't do the most important part.

I don't watch death cams myself, or keep track of who's using what (it doesn't tell you after you leave the lobby, although sometimes it's obvious based on voice chat) so none of this really bugs me, but I absolutely understand why it would be annoying for people who take the game a lot more seriously, or just like a good fair competition. For me, what's far more annoying is being shot around a corner or the rare occasion when I do watch a deathcam and while I shot half my magazine into a dude on my screen, the cam shows me literally just running up to them and doing nothing. That'll drive me nuts far more than some aim assist ever will. And since I mainly play gun game, watching the bullshit that can happen (good and bad both) with those throwing knives is enough to give me a headache. It's also a great mode to level the playing field a bit more in terms of gamepad vs KBM, because some guns clearly benefit from one type of control scheme more than others. I've heard that people on gamepad specifically don't seem to like scoped LMGs, while they're my absolute favorite, for example. On the other hand, I fucking hate pistols and magnums while console guys seem to like them a lot more.

 

I actually haven't played CoD outside of BR for a few months, I kind of miss getting a few daily gun games in. Maybe I'll check back in soon.

[atom631]

45 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

I think you guys are underselling the value of a feature like aim assist in a shooter designed like CoD.

In something like the Battle Royale mode, it's much less likely to be a defining factor, although it still matters. But in CoD's normal maps, every tiny bit of map and gameplay design is there to benefit aim assist. The narrow, hallway-like design of so many areas means you don't often need to sweep your view very far to acquire targets. The almost complete lack of verticality sans the occasional upper platform or like a 5 foot dip means that you very rarely have to aim up or down very much. The maps aren't completely flat, but they're close enough to it compared to games really designed around it, like ye olde Quake 3 or Unreal.

 

Then you've got a super quick TTK, meaning that the benefit of being able to turn around quickly and fire back is reduced dramatically. It'll happen sometimes, but usually if you get the drop on someone, they're dead before they can react, KBM or no. Combine this with super slow relative to PC shooters movement speed where it's really easy to follow a moving target, no real defensive mobility options, sprinting putting your weapon away, etc, and every advantage of playing on KBM starts to get frayed. And that's all just general gamepad FPS design, without even taking into account aim assist, which is just a friendly way of saying aimbot. Because that's all it is. A low-grade aimbot because aiming and shooting (the very essence of what an FPS is supposed to be) on two goofy sticks just doesn't work very well. Of course people will wind up salty when they have to actually aim and hit every target in the game when someone else doesn't. It's like playing two different versions of the same game.

The correct solution would be separating KBM and gamepad players like most games do, but they didn't. So controller guys get to bitch that they get wrecked because KBM does still have an advantage, but dying to someone using a controller and watching the ridiculous death cam is never going to result in someone going "Wow that was a good fight," because the actual player didn't do the most important part.

I don't watch death cams myself, or keep track of who's using what (it doesn't tell you after you leave the lobby, although sometimes it's obvious based on voice chat) so none of this really bugs me, but I absolutely understand why it would be annoying for people who take the game a lot more seriously, or just like a good fair competition. For me, what's far more annoying is being shot around a corner or the rare occasion when I do watch a deathcam and while I shot half my magazine into a dude on my screen, the cam shows me literally just running up to them and doing nothing. That'll drive me nuts far more than some aim assist ever will. And since I mainly play gun game, watching the bullshit that can happen (good and bad both) with those throwing knives is enough to give me a headache. It's also a great mode to level the playing field a bit more in terms of gamepad vs KBM, because some guns clearly benefit from one type of control scheme more than others. I've heard that people on gamepad specifically don't seem to like scoped LMGs, while they're my absolute favorite, for example. On the other hand, I fucking hate pistols and magnums while console guys seem to like them a lot more.

 

I actually haven't played CoD outside of BR for a few months, I kind of miss getting a few daily gun games in. Maybe I'll check back in soon.

i think for all the examples you mentioned where the design of COD makes the difference between KBM and controller not that significant... it still comes out that in every one of those scenarios - a KBM will still do better. 

 

First- Groundwar is very vertical. It fact it's obnoxiously vertical to the point where the rooftops are littered with camping snipers (gives me BF4 shanghai PTSD). Secondly - comparing COD to something like Battlefield, which  I primarily play - COD is way more twitchy. Battlefield may be more vertical - but the movement is more grounded in realism. You rarely see jump/drop shotting in BF. In COD you need to react pretty quick to someone as they sprint through a doorway, jumping and shooting you midair. It makes mounting on a corner practically useless as you ADS centered on the doorway -  depending of they slide or jump you have to react pretty quickly. Very few controller gamers turn their sensitivity up to the point where you can get to PC levels of twitch reaction time. I think The Broken Machine is one of the few controller gamers who use max sensitivity (ironically it seems he switched to playing COD on PC). I watch twitch while Im working (esp during this pandemic) and its usually Timthetatman or DrDisrespect - both PC players. I also enjoy watch Swagg or Formal for console perspective. The PC players movement is just unobtainable on controller. The way they dropshot and then stand back up so fluidly while still shooting and maintaining the target is really amazing. Sometimes they will drop, get up and drop again all in the same burst of fire. I have no idea how they can do it so fast. Ive made private matches for myself just to practice it and i simply cannot recreate it. Swagg does seem to come close, but still not at the same level. 

 

As for separating KBM and gamepad players - from what I can tell, it seems like the game mostly tries to do that. Most lobbies in the core game seem to been controllers, at least for me. And a PC player using a controller reaps the benefits of both systems - they get aim assist PLUS fov slider and higher FPS. That's even more OP. this is why it just would be best to give us the option of what platforms we want to play with.

 

I will only watch death cams mostly to see how I fucked up in a situation where I feel i should have won the fight. On occasion I will continually watch a killcam when I am getting killed by the same player over and over again no matter if I get the drop of them or not. Its almost always a PC player in those scenarios. 

 

BTW - for anyone reading this - COD multiplayer (not warzone) is F2P this wekeend. so give it a shot. 

[SimpleG]

5 minutes ago, atom631 said:

BTW - for anyone reading this - COD multiplayer (not warzone) is F2P this wekeend. so give it a shot. 

[Xbob42]

34 minutes ago, atom631 said:

i think for all the examples you mentioned where the design of COD makes the difference between KBM and controller not that significant... it still comes out that in every one of those scenarios - a KBM will still do better. 

 

First- Groundwar is very vertical. It fact it's obnoxiously vertical to the point where the rooftops are littered with camping snipers (gives me BF4 shanghai PTSD). Secondly - comparing COD to something like Battlefield, which  I primarily play - COD is way more twitchy. Battlefield may be more vertical - but the movement is more grounded in realism. You rarely see jump/drop shotting in BF. In COD you need to react pretty quick to someone as they sprint through a doorway, jumping and shooting you midair. It makes mounting on a corner practically useless as you ADS centered on the doorway -  depending of they slide or jump you have to react pretty quickly. Very few controller gamers turn their sensitivity up to the point where you can get to PC levels of twitch reaction time. I think The Broken Machine is one of the few controller gamers who use max sensitivity (ironically it seems he switched to playing COD on PC). I watch twitch while Im working (esp during this pandemic) and its usually Timthetatman or DrDisrespect - both PC players. I also enjoy watch Swagg or Formal for console perspective. The PC players movement is just unobtainable on controller. The way they dropshot and then stand back up so fluidly while still shooting and maintaining the target is really amazing. Sometimes they will drop, get up and drop again all in the same burst of fire. I have no idea how they can do it so fast. Ive made private matches for myself just to practice it and i simply cannot recreate it. Swagg does seem to come close, but still not at the same level. 

 

As for separating KBM and gamepad players - from what I can tell, it seems like the game mostly tries to do that. Most lobbies in the core game seem to been controllers, at least for me. And a PC player using a controller reaps the benefits of both systems - they get aim assist PLUS fov slider and higher FPS. That's even more OP. this is why it just would be best to give us the option of what platforms we want to play with.

 

I will only watch death cams mostly to see how I fucked up in a situation where I feel i should have won the fight. On occasion I will continually watch a killcam when I am getting killed by the same player over and over again no matter if I get the drop of them or not. Its almost always a PC player in those scenarios. 

 

BTW - for anyone reading this - COD multiplayer (not warzone) is F2P this wekeend. so give it a shot. 

Like I said, KBM still does have the upper-hand, but having the "upper-hand" when you by all rights should be virtually untouchable because the other person is attempting to play an FPS with two goofy thumb sticks just makes it really annoying, because, again, it's not that the other player is doing some amazing shit to kill you, the game literally acquires targets and does the hard work for you. Getting good at aiming is a skill that people take years developing, and then being matched up with people who barely have to interact with that facet of the game is just frustrating. Which is why I said the best solution is separation. For many console gamers, the game without aim assist would be virtually unplayable, and I as a PC player ALSO don't want to be fighting gamepad players who can't use aim assist, because that would be an even more lopsided disaster.

 

And "vertical" doesn't just mean there's rooftops. That's exactly the kind of console FPS development nonsense that frustrates me. Verticality in FPS games, to me at least, means maps with tons of slopes and multi-tiered buildings and jump pads and combat in the air, or at least several of these things. Not you go up some damned stairs and camp on the roof. That's like the most basic bitch vertical level design I can imagine.

Which is also why I didn't really include Battlefield. I talked about Quake and Unreal because those are the kinds of games designed around KBM functionality, while modern FPS titles are 100% catered to the slow, unwieldy nonsense that is an FPS with a gamepad. You move slow and can't fire with most weapons while moving at more than a snail's pace, when you want to move slightly faster you can't shoot, you have to hit a button to fucking aim your weapon, which takes time and dramatically further slows your movement speed AND limits your FOV, you can't jump as a defensive option, switching weapons and reloading take forever, etc. It's all designed to slow the game down to an unbelievable level. Yes, it's more "twitch" than Battlefield, but that's not saying anything at all. It has the ridiculous defense of being "more realistic" but in reality it's all designed to make it feel more playable with the most popular control scheme.

 

As for the game doing a good job separating people out, I dunno, every single match I play on PC (again, I play Gun Game mostly) is like 85% controller users, although I'll get the occasional PC-only match and that shit is crazy fun. Is there a Battle.net option to disable crossplay? Or even better, one in-game? I'd like to play a bunch of matches with and without it and see the difference when I'm actually paying attention to that.

[JPDunks4]

Gulag is so much easier on controller for me.  I've  been tempted to have a controller plugged in to use for my Gulags.  The Aim assist makes a big difference with those single fire guns in there.  

[Xbob42]

6 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

Gulag is so much easier on controller for me.  I've  been tempted to have a controller plugged in to use for my Gulags.  The Aim assist makes a big difference with those single fire guns in there.  

Yup, single shots hugely benefit from aim assist. Especially at close to mid range.

[AbsolutSurgen]

KB/M is clearly the best control method for FPS (I can't imagine playing Doom on a controller).

 

However, whether you have an advantage in multiplayer in vs. a controller with aim-assist is completely dependant on how aggressive the auto-aim is.  If any of the multi-player games used an auto-aim system, that was aggressive as the single player RDR2 system, controllers would win all of the time.

[Brick]