Jason Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-elon-musk-sepulveda-20181127-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I must be dramatically underestimating the cost of an environmental review if it's the entire difference between digging the tunnel and not. I understand that if you're the one building a project like this you'd rather avoid something like that as much as possible, but is it really the difference between doing it and not? edit: An earlier LA Times article on the subject says that "If the full City Council approves the California Environmental Quality Act exemption, it would shave months, or even years, off the Boring Co.'s construction time." I suppose a possible multi year delay for a project that should only take a year is pretty bad. I'm not exactly Musk's biggest fan, but I even less a fan of NIMBY-ism and would love to see more transport oriented projects fast tracked in CA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 CEQA is not about the environment in Urban California. It's about nimbyism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 musk had the commitment of a good old fashioned grifter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 lol like this was even ever gonna happen Oh yeah Right it's the lawsuit Sure Right on buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 23 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: CEQA is not about the environment in Urban California. It's about nimbyism. In this case I'm kind of on the side of the NIMBYs, because when this was first approved it sure seemed like the people who approved it were trying to ram something through that'd block/constrain future Metro expansion through the area. Some of the backers, like Paul Koretz, are notoriously awful NIMBY city councilmembers. https://la.streetsblog.org/2018/04/16/elon-musk-boring-company-test-tunnel-could-get-fast-tracked-blocking-metros-sepulveda-rail-project/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 12 minutes ago, Jason said: In this case I'm kind of on the side of the NIMBYs, because when this was first approved it sure seemed like the people who approved it were trying to ram something through that'd block/constrain future Metro expansion through the area. Some of the backers, like Paul Koretz, are notoriously awful NIMBY city councilmembers. https://la.streetsblog.org/2018/04/16/elon-musk-boring-company-test-tunnel-could-get-fast-tracked-blocking-metros-sepulveda-rail-project/ It's nimbys all the way down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 So... they just showed off a demo of their first test tunnel and... it seems pretty dumb? https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-boring-company-car-flinging-tunnel/ They sent a regular-ass car with retrofitted wheels through at about 50 miles per hour. So basically, this tunnel will allow you to experience... driving a car at normal speeds. But in a one-way tunnel. Or, as Jalopnik put it, "What the Actual Shit Was That?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ricofoley said: So... they just showed off a demo of their first test tunnel and... it seems pretty dumb? https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-boring-company-car-flinging-tunnel/ They sent a regular-ass car with retrofitted wheels through at about 50 miles per hour. So basically, this tunnel will allow you to experience... driving a car at normal speeds. But in a one-way tunnel. Or, as Jalopnik put it, "What the Actual Shit Was That?" I suppose if you could completely bypass traffic, that would be a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 The tunnel looks like shit tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I suppose if you could completely bypass traffic, that would be a plus. And then once you have to join normal traffic what do you think is going to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: And then once you have to join normal traffic what do you think is going to happen? You would ideally go down into the tunnel in your neighborhood and emerge in something close to where you are going, like a parking garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: You would ideally go down into the tunnel in your neighborhood and emerge in something close to where you are going, like a parking garage. That would be fine for a single tunnel, or a small number of tunnels with a small number of users, but won't work for the population at large. Fast moving traffic doesn't scale. And that parking garage may also have a queue so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Yeah this system is definitely going to be for the one percenters. I'm fine with that. It's his money he's spending at this point. Plus this tunneling technology will likely be used for Mars settlements in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Nah, fuck those guys. Wait in traffic with the rest of us, or take transit/walk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I mean, wouldn't the tunnel also be paved, or at least graveled? And one-way is a bad idea (if only one lane). Someone is eventually going to break down and strand hundreds of people underground. And what about ventilation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I mean, wouldn't the tunnel also be paved, or at least graveled? And one-way is a bad idea (if only one lane). Someone is eventually going to break down and strand hundreds of people underground. And what about ventilation? On 11/28/2018 at 6:37 AM, 2user1cup said: lol like this was even ever gonna happen Oh yeah Right it's the lawsuit Sure Right on buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 The interesting stuff that the Boring company is doing is primarily in how they're retrofitting the drills. They're taking small drills used for sewers and converting them to be electric and more automated. They have another new drill in progress and then they'll be creating their own from scratch. Given the issues that tunneling has, I think they're making some progress in making it faster and cheaper. That said, they really need a better plan for what to do with the tunnels they dig. This whole "put a Model X on a skate" thing is just about the stupidest possible way to quickly move people through a tunnel. The plan has repeatedly changed over time, and this feels like a stopgap proof of concept more than a real proposal. They do have contracts to build tunnels to Dodger stadium and around one of the Chicago airports, and I have to imagine that this is not their plan for how to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I really hope there is a much larger plan and this is just a tiny step, because this implementation is truly awful and if this is it Musk should commit seppuku out of the shame. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: All of those school kids can order some bottled water on Amazon using their new laptops. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Call me crazy, but it seems that the most efficient way to move people underground through tunnels like this is some form of mass, public transit. If only we had some sort of subterranean busway...a subusway...a subway. That would not help sell Teslas though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of this tunnel network being used for moving cars. Instead, it should be mass transit, but it should directly compete with existing MTAs. A little competition would be a good thing. If Musk can build a mile of tunnel for $10 million (and he claims it will get cheaper and faster as their drilling tech improves), then the Boring Company would be able to run circles around existing systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of this tunnel network being used for moving cars. Instead, it should be mass transit, but it should directly compete with existing MTAs. A little competition would be a good thing. If Musk can build a mile of tunnel for $10 million (and he claims it will get cheaper and faster as their drilling tech improves), then the Boring Company would be able to run circles around existing systems. Tunnels aren't really the expensive part of building subways. A lot of it is stuff like union costs, and a lot of it is the stations. The Second Avenue Subway has station caverns that are both unnecessarily deep and unnecessarily huge, leading to huge excavation costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Jason said: Tunnels aren't really the expensive part of building subways. A lot of it is stuff like union costs, and a lot of it is the stations. The Second Avenue Subway has station caverns that are both unnecessarily deep and unnecessarily huge, leading to huge excavation costs. Euro countries have unions and environmental rules and big deep stations and their construction costs are still way way way below what it costs us. Litigation is the big cost driver of US infrastructure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Euro countries have unions and environmental rules and big deep stations and their construction costs are still way way way below what it costs us. Litigation is the big cost driver of US infrastructure Either way I think the relevant point is that it's not the tunneling itself that's the cost-driver here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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