General Gaming Is this the worst console generation since before the NES?

[Ghost_MH]

4 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I actually can't think of a better year for gaming than 2023, at least for what I like to play.

 

Tears of the Kingdom, Street Fighter 6, Baldur's Gate 3, Alan Wake 2, Super Mario Bros. Wonder, Dead Space Remake, Sea of Stars, FF16, Pikmin 4, RE4Make, Lies of P, Dead Island 2, Dredge, Hi-Fi Rush, Octopath 2, Cocoon, Remnant 2, Hogwarts Legacy, Theatrhythm Final Bar Line, Amnesia The Bunker, Armored Core 6, Trails into Reverie, Trails to Azure, LAD: Ishin, Jedi Survivor, Darkest Dungeon 2, Humanity, System Shock Remake (fucking awesome game, buy it), Diablo 4 I guess, BattleBit Remastered, Aliens: Dark Descent (fun and unique game!), Exoprimal (a meme game but a fun one), Starfield if you're a pervert, Phantom Liberty, Lords of the Fallen if you loved Dark Souls 2, Ghostrunner 2, Little Goody Two Shoes, You Will Die Here Tonight (love this game), Home Safety Hotline, Saturnalia, The Man Who Erased His Name, Super Mario RPG Remake, and plenty I would count but haven't played myself or am not interested in.

It was the only year I can think of where I constantly had something new to play and enjoy, with many spikes of top-tier excellence. The low points of the year still involved me playing great games, which is highly unusual.

As to what part of each "generation" these games count as part of... that seems like a weird hair splitting discussion that isn't particularly interesting to me.

 

I think the question is if this is the weakest CONSOLE generation. Aside from all the Nintendo games, most of the rest of those games are all on PC. I don't think anyone is judging the quality of games as being poor, more the quality of being a console-exclusive gamer.

 

For me, the PS3/X360 is the last generation that really made me want a not-Nintendo console. I didn't really miss consoles during the PS4/XB1 generation and I miss non-Nintendo console gaming even less during this PS5/XSX gen. Hell, I don't even really care for Nintendo console gaming were it not for the ridiculous strength of Nintendo's own games.

 

Price is really the only reason to buy a Sony or Microsoft console these days and that's becoming less true every day.

[legend]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I think the question is if this is the weakest CONSOLE generation. Aside from all the Nintendo games, most of the rest of those games are all on PC. I don't think anyone is judging the quality of games as being poor, more the quality of being a console-exclusive gamer.

 

Why does this matter? If you buy a console you can play those games. The notion that the console would be better if developers artificially didn't release the game on PC is super weird.

[Best]

6 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Why does this matter? If you buy a console you can play those games. The notion that the console would be better if developers artificially didn't release the game on PC is super weird.

 

Thank you!

[Brian]

Quote

The main rule I placed on myself when putting this list together is that the games are only available on PS5. This is why you won’t see titles like God of War: Ragnarok, Horizon Forbidden West or Spider-Man: Miles Morales. I also excluded The Last of Us I Remake and The Last of Us II Remastered since you can play the PS4 versions on PS5.

[SaysWho?]

33 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Why does this matter? If you buy a console you can play those games. The notion that the console would be better if developers artificially didn't release the game on PC is super weird.

 

Something I've wondered about for the longest time, and it's not an exclusive idea to this board so I'm not picking on Ghost.

 

I don't game on PC minus my Starcraft, but consoles are getting a lot of what comes there anyway. Isn't that a good thing? Since decades ago were times when many games were strictly PC, older Playstation consoles either missed out on a lot of PC games or had weird ports. IIRC, only something like the original Xbox could handle Morrowind or Knights of the Old Republic. 

 

Nobody asks if it's the worst time to be a PC gamer because so many games are on consoles too, or that it was better to game on PC when something like Half-Life released and no console could handle it until the PS2 port three years later or stuff like Gabriel Knight or Grim Fandango or Baldur's Gate were only found on PC. I feel as if my PC friends just game and have fun, but for consoles, we think of it differently and ask how many games can be found on PC, when nobody looks at it the other way.

 

Right now, consoles have backwards compatibility so the PS4/XBO releases are essentially PS5/XBS releases as well, you can play even older games on Xbox and you can play PS1 games on PS5 -- freebies if you already bought the PS1 versions on PS3, same with if you bought PS2 games online in previous gens. Consoles have SSDs and instant loading, and they have a tremendous number of games that release. Even something like XBox, which has a much weaker first party lineup imo than the other two, still gets much of the third party releases, so I feel it'd be hard to find NOTHING on it, whether or not you have Game Pass or PS+ for Playstation. I just spent two months playing ONE game in FF7 ReBirth, plus Apollo Justice Trilogy which, again, is PS4 "only" which is irrelevant if you have a PS5 (same for Xbox). It's hard to say things are worse.

[legend]

9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Nobody asks if it's the worst time to be a PC gamer because so many games are on consoles too, or that it was better to game on PC when something like Half-Life released and no console could handle it until the PS2 port three years later or stuff like Gabriel Knight or Grim Fandango or Baldur's Gate were only found on PC. I feel as if my PC friends just game and have fun, but for consoles, we think of it differently and ask how many games can be found on PC, when nobody looks at it the other way.

 

This is a great way to put it.

[Brian]

I do think this has by far been the most negative generation I can remember.  
 

Supply chain causing a lack of hardware which allowed bots/scalpers charge an arm and a leg in the secondary market. 

 

Story after story of toxic environments and employee harassment.

 

Significant amount of studio closures and consolidation which has led to record layoffs. 
 

Rising prices in games, services, and hardware.  Still no price cuts this far in the generation. 
 

Every week there seems to be another negative story. Even through all of this, there are still so many amazing games being released. I got Cyperpunk, BG3, Starfield, Spiderman 2, and so many other great games in my backlog to play.  I feel paralyzed whenever I look at it and try to figure out what to play next. 

[crispy4000]

28 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Nobody asks if it's the worst time to be a PC gamer because so many games are on consoles too, or that it was better to game on PC when something like Half-Life released and no console could handle it until the PS2 port three years later or stuff like Gabriel Knight or Grim Fandango or Baldur's Gate were only found on PC. I feel as if my PC friends just game and have fun, but for consoles, we think of it differently and ask how many games can be found on PC, when nobody looks at it the other way.

 

It wasn’t always this way.  It used to be that being a PC gamer implied you liked particular kinds of games, not all the games or any games because they’re all here.  And there was a period of stagnation where PC game felt d00med.   (Here’s a thread from 2005 on the subject)

 

There’s still some remnants of that in some of what becomes popular on Steam today.  But I remember when JPRGs and character action games were something novel on PC, going back to the old Eidos FF7 port.  By the PS4/XBO gen the question shifted to if the PC port would make it to Xbox.

 

Oh, and just to mention it, PC does have the stutter struggle problem today.  Maybe things will get better with newer titles, but there are quite a number of games where consoles are still the optimal place to play them.  Unless you’d trade resolution for dealing with judder.

[Dre801]

Let's just say that I've been paying more attention to my PC this gen compared to previous gens.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

Nobody asks if it's the worst time to be a PC gamer because so many games are on consoles too, or that it was better to game on PC when something like Half-Life released and no console could handle it until the PS2 port three years later or stuff like Gabriel Knight or Grim Fandango or Baldur's Gate were only found on PC. I feel as if my PC friends just game and have fun, but for consoles, we think of it differently and ask how many games can be found on PC, when nobody looks at it the other way.

 

There was however, very much a time when it didn't make sense to be a PC-only gamer. We absolutely went through years of "PC gaming is dead or dying". Many of the best games were console exclusives and the major games on PC were the typical PC gaming stalwarts like strategy games, sims, and RPGs. If you wanted to experience the full breadth the medium has to offer you needed a PC and a console. Now-a-days, I would argue that distinction no longer exists. So, yes, if those games weren't coming to PC, PC gaming would be a lesser experience and console gaming would be a better value. I mean, the value of the Nintendo Switch lies entirely in the console's exclusives.

 

I'm not saying consoles don't have good games available for them. I just paid full, fat price for the previously console exclusive Horizon Forbidden West and enjoyed the hell out of my time with it. I'm just saying, my son wanted deeper gaming experiences than his tablet could afford him, so I spent $600 on a PC and he has access to nearly everything not Nintendo for less than what I'd be paying for his console games with infinite backward compatibility. A couple of gaming generations ago, I would have bought him a PS3.

[stepee]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It wasn’t always this way.  It used to be that being a PC gamer implied you liked particular kinds of games, not all the games or any games because they’re all here.  And there was a period of stagnation where PC game felt d00med.   (Here’s a thread from 2005 on the subject)

 

There’s still some remnants of that in some of what becomes popular on Steam today.  But I remember when JPRGs and character action games were something novel on PC, going back to the old Eidos FF7 port.  By the PS4/XBO gen the question shifted to if the PC port would make it to Xbox.

 

Oh, and just to mention it, PC does have the stutter struggle problem today.  Maybe things will get better with newer titles, but there are quite a number of games where consoles are still the optimal place to play them.  Unless you’d trade resolution for dealing with judder.

 

While it’s going to be dependent on your hardware I can’t think of a single game I would consider the optimal place to play them being a console, let alone “quite a number”.

 

There was a period into last year with too many games skipping the precomp step but that got ironed out mostly by now and most games that had shader comp issues were later patched. I can’t think of anything past like two weeks from launch at most that wasn’t significantly better on pc. The only exception I can think of is Jedi but you still have the traversal stutter there on console and you lose a ridiculous amount of image quality and cut the frame rate in half.

 

Edit: I think too many people see people like Alex going off on stutter on DF and think it’s like this big negative vs consoles.

 

Not realizing that Alex wouldn’t touch the console version of most things because of those same standards. There was a bad period but they mostly got cleaned up near launch with shader comp steps and not many remain in that state. It’s just more frustrating on pc because you are used to better and also because these things SHOULDN'T be a problem there. 

 

But I notice stutters just the same even playing Stellar Blade which is being herald as an amazingly well optimized console game (and it is!) but UE gonna still UE. If you had these same stutters on a pc version though, you damn well know Alex wouldn’t call it “perfect”

[SuperSpreader]

7 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

This has been the worst console generation ever, but these 7 PS5 games have (almost) saved it | Tom's Guide

WWW.TOMSGUIDE.COM

---

There have been some bright spots in this console generation

Until I saw this article I hadn’t thought of it that way but I kinda think it might be. 

 

Yes. This is like the crash before Nintendo saved the industry.

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

Yes. This is like the crash before Nintendo saved the industry.

What gens have you enjoyed less than this one? That’s essentially the question I’m asking. 

[stepee]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

What gens have you enjoyed less than this one? That’s essentially the question I’m asking. 

 

All of them!

[SuperSpreader]

1 minute ago, Paperclyp said:

What gens have you enjoyed less than this one? That’s essentially the question I’m asking. 

 

This was the least enjoyable gen

[Paperclyp]

I apologize for what I’ve done. Thought it would be a fun little exercise. 

[SuperSpreader]

btw the reasons no one is innovating around physics is most games are MP centric since SP games don't sell and can't be monetized the same way. There's inherit issues tracking physics sims over network connections therefore it's barely done.

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

All of them!

wait so this one is your fave? That’s cool if so just surprises me. 

[stepee]

1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said:

btw the reasons no one is innovating around physics is most games are MP centric since SP games don't sell and can't be monetized the same way. There's inherit issues tracking physics sims over network connections therefore it's barely done.

 

Is the source for this a thought bubble over your head as you took a shower 

[Paperclyp]

1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said:

btw the reasons no one is innovating around physics is most games are MP centric since SP games don't sell and can't be monetized the same way. There's inherit issues tracking physics sims over network connections therefore it's barely done.

Single player games sell quite well which has been proven time and time again. 

[SuperSpreader]

Ok whatever you guys say

You're absolutely right

 

[stepee]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

wait so this one is your fave? That’s cool if so just surprises me. 

 

It depends on how you split things. I’m happier with gaming now than I ever been do to multiple reasons (the types of games we can have, where tech is, the combining of home and handheld, a strong indie scene, and recently seeing a trend back to the return of the AA) but if I try to stick to console only then idk. 
 

Switch is probably my favorite console - is it still the gen of the switch? Then that makes it easier without having to even factor in the other stuff. Switch 2 being delayed is probably the biggest issue right now, and also why the hardware sales are down so much when they would have otherwise seen a boost.

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

It depends on how you split things. I’m happier with gaming now than I ever been do to multiple reasons (the types of games we can have, where tech is, the combining of home and handheld, a strong indie scene, and recently seeing a trend back to the return of the AA) but if I try to stick to console only then idk. 
 

Switch is probably my favorite console - is it still the gen of the switch? Then that makes it easier without having to even factor in the other stuff. Switch 2 being delayed is probably the biggest issue right now, and also why the hardware sales are down so much when they would have otherwise seen a boost.

Im in much the same boat where I am more pleased with gaming than ever. And in my brain which I realize makes this an asinine exercise I had split the switch into two different eras I guess. 
 

Maybe the heart of this for me is more PlayStation centric where it’s kinda been my go-to machine for more than 25 years and it’s just not that way anymore. 

[stepee]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

Im in much the same boat where I am more pleased with gaming than ever. And in my brain which I realize makes this an asinine exercise I had split the switch into two different eras I guess. 
 

Maybe the heart of this for me is more PlayStation centric where it’s kinda been my go-to machine for more than 25 years and it’s just not that way anymore. 

 

I think most of this feeling atm is indeed a playstation centric one. And lol yeah you really have to get creative with Switch when thinking of generations especially right now.

[stepee]

Also while developers are going back to the low IQ well to push the generation forward, even pairing it down from last gen, they are doing so along with a real push to bring console gamers to 60fps for most games for the first time in the 3D era.

[SuperSpreader]

15 minutes ago, stepee said:

real push to bring console gamers to 60fps for most games for the first time in the 3D era.

 

Are these really innovations or do they just allow for more slop because of the added power.

[stepee]

Just now, SuperSpreader said:

 

Are these really innovations or do they just allow for more slop because of the added power.

 

It’s not so much of an innovation a much of a rising of standards 

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

While it’s going to be dependent on your hardware I can’t think of a single game I would consider the optimal place to play them being a console, let alone “quite a number”.

Jedi Survivor

Wild Hearts

Elden Ring

Stray

Dead Space Remake

FF7 Remake

 

Etc.  More I’m forgetting.   I don’t think any game with egregious shader comp stutter on PC is preferable there.

[GeneticBlueprint]

52 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

I apologize for what I’ve done. Thought it would be a fun little exercise. 

I’ve enjoyed reading the discussion. No apologies are necessary. 

[stepee]

7 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Jedi Survivor

Wild Hearts

Elden Ring

Stray

Dead Space

FF7 Remake

 

Etc.  More I’m forgetting. 

 

 

Jedi I mentioned, Elden Ring is a good one I don’t think they did ever fix that, but probably  most stable version is ps4 via BC on a ps5 for 60 or steam deck for 30fps so kind of a wash there depending on how you define pc and a proper working console version. FF7R is fixed up and you could mostly resolve it day1 by forcing DX11 and adding hdr back in with SK. Dead Space has the traversal stutters also on console, I’ll easily take 120fps 4k dlaa and enhanced RT for any slight perceived difference in the frequency there. 

 

I haven’t played Wild Hearts so I’ll give you that one and you are right that Stray, while I consider it very minor there, they never did fix that. But yeah, there isn’t much to speak of in the “best on console” pile.

[stepee]

Also the actual trend with shader comp is a rise in actually doing pre comp and reducing them now, so either way if we are talking about things getting worse..that is a thing getting better. Micro stutters of all kinds have been an issue long before this gen started.

[stepee]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

I apologize for what I’ve done. Thought it would be a fun little exercise. 

 

naaa this isn’t even spicy - someone just did a “gaming isn’t an expensive hobby” thread on resetera and I expect that to get much spicier 

[Best]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

I apologize for what I’ve done. Thought it would be a fun little exercise. 

 

You should be ashamed of yourself. 

[crispy4000]

35 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Jedi I mentioned, Elden Ring is a good one I don’t think they did ever fix that, but probably  most stable version is ps4 via BC on a ps5 for 60 or steam deck for 30fps so kind of a wash there depending on how you define pc and a proper working console version. FF7R is fixed up and you could mostly resolve it day1 by forcing DX11 and adding hdr back in with SK. Dead Space has the traversal stutters also on console, I’ll easily take 120fps 4k dlaa and enhanced RT for any slight perceived difference in the frequency there. 

 

I haven’t played Wild Hearts so I’ll give you that one and you are right that Stray, while I consider it very minor there, they never did fix that. But yeah, there isn’t much to speak of in the “best on console” pile.

There’s still more.  Ghostwrite Tokyo is supposedly awful about it.  Castillo Protocol. Wo Long. Chernobylite. Probably a bunch of UE4 indie games where it isn’t getting the same attention. (Supposedly Bramble is another)

 

Its too big of a problem to hand-wave, at least for the end of last gen/early this gen.  Sucks that it’s pretty much a permanent problem for those games that aren’t fixed.

[stepee]

20 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

There’s still more.  Ghostwrite Tokyo is supposedly awful about it.  Castillo Protocol. Wo Long. Chernobylite. Probably a bunch of UE4 indie games where it isn’t getting the same attention. (Supposedly Bramble is another)

 

Its too big of a problem to hand-wave, at least for the end of last gen/early this gen.  Sucks that it’s pretty much a permanent problem for those games that aren’t fixed.

 

Ghostwire Tokyo might still have shader comp issues, but it wasn’t bad in that. It does have another stutter issue that is caused by one of the settings you can fix* I forgot what that is. I think most reports online are due to that not the shader comp. While they might not have fixed some shader comp, it was mild here and even if the console versions are perfect smooth 60fps the entire time (no idea if this is the case) that’s also a game so vastly improved on pc that it still isn’t close.

 

Calisto Protocol was fixed actually within about 24 hours for shader comp - beyond that it’s just people having poor performance with RT due to their cpu’s on that one. Other games I hadn’t had interest in to confirm. But even if Bramble, Stray, Wild Hearts,  Chernobylite, and Wo Long run better on console or did around launch it’s not a convincing set of titles to bother making it a “plus” vs pc. And that’s just me assuming those games do for benefit of doubt.

 

*it was the texture streaming setting