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Trigun Stampede - New 3D Anime from Studio Orange | Out Now!


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Love Trigun, love the original manga Trigun/Trigun Maximum. I'm super meh on the 3D, though if anyone can do it, it's Orange. Is this going to be a full reboot adapting the manga more faithfully?

 

Either way, hey, it's more Trigun, never thought that'd happen, I'm cautiously optimistic. If anything, maybe we can finally get a bluray of the original anime.

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7 hours ago, Bacon said:

Trigun was the anime that made me into anime. I don't think I want this. 

 

This is the studio that animated Beastars. Their CG is some of the best in the industry. I can see them succeeding with something like Trigun.

 

6 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Love Trigun, love the original manga Trigun/Trigun Maximum. I'm super meh on the 3D, though if anyone can do it, it's Orange. Is this going to be a full reboot adapting the manga more faithfully?

 

Either way, hey, it's more Trigun, never thought that'd happen, I'm cautiously optimistic. If anything, maybe we can finally get a bluray of the original anime.

 

I hope it's a full Brotherhood style reboot. The original series is 20+ years ago. It would feel weird to make a direct sequel to that.

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3 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

This is the studio that animated Beastars. Their CG is some of the best in the industry. I can see them succeeding with something like Trigun.

 

I'm aware but Trigun is from the 2D era, and looks beautiful in 2D. Beastars looks good, but man what I wouldn't give for a 2D proper version. I don't expect a Berserk 2016 situation, but it's a strange choice. Orphan and Bastard and Legend of the Galactic Heroes all got reboots recently and all in 2D.

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I don't think I've seen anything this studio has done but looking at their website they appear to do 3D a lot like Arc System Works makes their games look. That is looks just like an anime and you can't tell it's 3D. If that's the case you have nothing to worry about.

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50 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I don't think I've seen anything this studio has done but looking at their website they appear to do 3D a lot like Arc System Works makes their games look. That is looks just like an anime and you can't tell it's 3D. If that's the case you have nothing to worry about.

 

I'm excited, but also cautious is all.

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6 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm aware but Trigun is from the 2D era, and looks beautiful in 2D. Beastars looks good, but man what I wouldn't give for a 2D proper version. I don't expect a Berserk 2016 situation, but it's a strange choice. Orphan and Bastard and Legend of the Galactic Heroes all got reboots recently and all in 2D.

 

I want Orange to go all out here. That picture in the tweet? I want that, but in motion. Orange can do it. They did it with the Godzilla fights in Singular Point. I think that look would work really well for Trigun.

 

It wouldn't be the old 90s Trigun, but it doesn't have to be.

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1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I want Orange to go all out here. That picture in the tweet? I want that, but in motion. Orange can do it. They did it with the Godzilla fights in Singular Point. I think that look would work really well for Trigun.

 

It wouldn't be the old 90s Trigun, but it doesn't have to be.

 

Well I like the enthusiasm - make me believe! :p That would be awesome if so.

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58 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

The show would look quite abstract if it looked like that. :p

 

I just mean, I want grit and smoke and bullets and enough debris to send a traditional animation studio under; all while this ridiculously red jacket flies around dodging/creating mayhem.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Direction and music and all are on point, but that animation - yikes. I assume it's not finished yet, and the preset day stuff looks better (show appears to be a reboot thankfully) but I would have really enjoyed traditional 2D animation. I hope it grows on me and it gets better before release, even for Orange that should be better. 

 

First Berserk, then Spriggan, now Trigun. Why does Japan think old properties want to be revived into 3D? They are old properties, fans of those franchises want 2D to match the original age of these properties, not some goofy 3D that didn't even exist when these were made.

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36 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

not some goofy 3D that didn't even exist when these were made.

 

Oh the goofy 3D existed it just didn't look good. :p

Hate on Spriggan all you want but the 3D looks just like 2D. Even the creators themselves said they couldn't tell when they saw some early footage.

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2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Oh the goofy 3D existed it just didn't look good. :p

Hate on Spriggan all you want but the 3D looks just like 2D. Even the creators themselves said they couldn't tell when they saw some early footage.

 

I don't hate Spriggan's look, and I've watched plenty of 3D anime I didn't mind, Knights of Sidonia, Blame, Land of the Lustrous, etc. I'm just saying it doesn't look as good as a traditional, 2D animated look would have. I thought Arcane looked great, and Spriggan is sort of doing that Kengan Ashura thing. It's just why would you take it in that direction with something like old properties? Just doesn't make sense.

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2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

I don't hate Spriggan's look, and I've watched plenty of 3D anime I didn't mind, Knights of Sidonia, Blame, Land of the Lustrous, etc. I'm just saying it doesn't look as good as a traditional, 2D animated look would have. I thought Arcane looked great, and Spriggan is sort of doing that Kengan Ashura thing. It's just why would you take it in that direction with something like old properties? Just doesn't make sense.

 

I can answer the question for Spriggan and Trigun. They're cheap. These are mostly dormant franchises. The manga series have been over and done with for more than a decade. Are there any light novels for either of these I'm unaware of? These remakes are mostly catering to American audiences. Spriggan was fully paid for by Netflix and Trigun Stampede had its debut at Anime Expo.

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30 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I can answer the question for Spriggan and Trigun. They're cheap. These are mostly dormant franchises. The manga series have been over and done with for more than a decade. Are there any light novels for either of these I'm unaware of? These remakes are mostly catering to American audiences. Spriggan was fully paid for by Netflix and Trigun Stampede had its debut at Anime Expo.

 

My guess is 3D is cheaper as well, but Studio Orange is pretty top tier. I think it'll look mostly good, I'm a diehard Trigun fan so I'm excited either way. And as far as I know, both are long dormant franchises, no new stuff for Spriggan - the original 11 volume manga series ended in 1996, the film came out in 1998, and there was a game in 1999 and that's it, so it'd been 24 years really, but Spriggan has had lasting popularity in the West, weirdly enough also Europe since a couple of volumes of the original manga did get translated there in the 1990's.

 

Trigun has also had very lasting popularity despite being dormant. The original manga ended in 2007 (technically as Trigun Maximum), the original anime came out in 1998, and the episodic spin-off film came out in 2010. So it's been at least 12 years for Trigun, though creator Yasuhiro Nightow is a big name obviously through Gungrave and Blood Blockade Battlefront since then (weirdly enough Gungrave is coming back with a new game this year too after the franchise had been dead for some time, though I don't believe anyone from the original team, including Nightow, is involved, still could be good though, trailer was solid enough). Also it's going to be really hard to replicate Trigun without Tsuneo Imahori's awesome soundtrack. I like what I heard in the trailer, but it creates a very different tone. They brought back Imahori for the 2010 film, so far they haven't announced who is doing the music for this yet. I'll also for me need the original dub crew back if this is a reboot and not like a prequel or something. They only brought back Johnny Yong Bosch as Vash for the film, but for a full series I'd like them all back, it was an excellent dub cast, if they're still working.

 

Berserk got a trilogy of films and two seasons of TV in this style, and I actually liked all of it. I waited until they released the US bluray to watch it which helped since the animation studio touched up a lot of things for the bluray releases. At times it looked really good, and then at other times really bad. So it can be good. I see that here too, a lot of potential and particular scenes look good but then them as kids, yikes. 

 

If only these things could get Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisan or Attack on Titan level budgets but that's probably asking too much. Even MAPPA had the titans go 3D from time to time in this elongated season 4 and it wasn't as good as the 2D they would otherwise sometimes have. And I get it - beggars can't be choosers. I'll be watching the Spriggan show soon enough just to support it, and it'll just be nice to see Ominae Yu kick ass and take names. I'll definitely be supporting this as well.

 

I will not support Kenji Kamiyama's 3D projects with Shinji Aramaki though (that's for @Keyser_Soze). :p 

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8 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

My guess is 3D is cheaper as well, but Studio Orange is pretty top tier. I think it'll look mostly good, I'm a diehard Trigun fan so I'm excited either way. And as far as I know, both are long dormant franchises, no new stuff for Spriggan - the original 11 volume manga series ended in 1996, the film came out in 1998, and there was a game in 1999 and that's it, so it'd been 24 years really, but Spriggan has had lasting popularity in the West, weirdly enough also Europe since a couple of volumes of the original manga did get translated there in the 1990's.

 

Trigun has also had very lasting popularity despite being dormant. The original manga ended in 2007 (technically as Trigun Maximum), the original anime came out in 1998, and the episodic spin-off film came out in 2010. So it's been at least 12 years for Trigun, though creator Yasuhiro Nightow is a big name obviously through Gungrave and Blood Blockade Battlefront since then (weirdly enough Gungrave is coming back with a new game this year too after the franchise had been dead for some time, though I don't believe anyone from the original team, including Nightow, is involved, still could be good though, trailer was solid enough). Also it's going to be really hard to replicate Trigun without Tsuneo Imahori's awesome soundtrack. I like what I heard in the trailer, but it creates a very different tone. They brought back Imahori for the 2010 film, so far they haven't announced who is doing the music for this yet. I'll also for me need the original dub crew back if this is a reboot and not like a prequel or something. They only brought back Johnny Yong Bosch as Vash for the film, but for a full series I'd like them all back, it was an excellent dub cast, if they're still working.

 

Berserk got a trilogy of films and two seasons of TV in this style, and I actually liked all of it. I waited until they released the US bluray to watch it which helped since the animation studio touched up a lot of things for the bluray releases. At times it looked really good, and then at other times really bad. So it can be good. I see that here too, a lot of potential and particular scenes look good but then them as kids, yikes. 

 

If only these things could get Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisan or Attack on Titan level budgets but that's probably asking too much. Even MAPPA had the titans go 3D from time to time in this elongated season 4 and it wasn't as good as the 2D they would otherwise sometimes have. And I get it - beggars can't be choosers. I'll be watching the Spriggan show soon enough just to support it, and it'll just be nice to see Ominae Yu kick ass and take names. I'll definitely be supporting this as well.

 

I will not support Kenji Kamiyama's 3D projects with Shinji Aramaki though (that's for @Keyser_Soze). :p 

 

I don't know how much of it is actually cheaper versus just trying to keep it cheap enough to not have to outsource inbetweening to some random studio in southeast Asia. Though, yes, money plays a big role here. Anime studios are still running on pretty sparse crews. Orange is like 120 people playing with their own money. They've likely had 1-2 years to work on Trigun Stampede. Compare that to the French studio, Fortiche, that had as many as 500 people working on Arcane over the course of six years with money from Riot and Netflix. Some of the craziest traditional animation in the industry right now is coming from studios like A-1 and Cloverworks which are both backed by Sony money.

 

Random tangent, but sometimes I think of smaller anime studios struggling for money and then I remember A-1 threw nearly a thousand keyframes at a dance during the end credit sequence of one episode of Kaguya-sama and then never used it again.

 

 

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It's strange to blame the 3D on the look of the show. Obviously these shows have art directors and such and they have a vision for how the show is supposed to look. So if they think it's supposed to look this way and maybe they hand drew it and if it looked exactly as it does now you couldn't hate it because it's 3D. Maybe they just wanted it to look unique / distinct from how it originally looked. For some people this is never going to fly, but it's never going to look the same either.

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36 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

It's strange to blame the 3D on the look of the show. Obviously these shows have art directors and such and they have a vision for how the show is supposed to look. So if they think it's supposed to look this way and maybe they hand drew it and if it looked exactly as it does now you couldn't hate it because it's 3D. Maybe they just wanted it to look unique / distinct from how it originally looked. For some people this is never going to fly, but it's never going to look the same either.

 

Nobody should blame the tech. CG anime studios are catching up to their western counterparts, though I think in many instances they just need to embrace 3D more. Spirits Within was more than two decades ago. We can do better. I think Lupin III: The First was brilliant and quite pretty. I'll fight anyone who thinks the art direction in that movie was a miss.

 

The bigger issue is with the tight budgets and even tighter schedules on the weekly series. Komi Can't Communicate is animated by the very talented people over at OLM. They do Pokemon and Yo-Kai Watch along with stuff like Odd Taxi and Summertime Rendering. Suffice to say, they're one of the more successful independent anime studios. Even still; Komi, even with Netflix, money got hit with the tight budget/tight scheduling bug and that led to some pretty rough animation in some episodes. All with no CG to blame.

 

CG isn't the problem, even if sometimes it's an easy thing to blame in the anime world.

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I mean, sure, if we want to be pedantic you could argue it's the art direction, not the CG itself, that's the issue. But that's probably because anime directors and designers aren't used to designing for 3D, so everything looks more plain, etc. It doesn't matter, it can look good, just a weird choice to go in that direction when we know 2D would look better for Trigun. I mean, even Vash in the trailer looks like a more typical anime hero protagonist. In the manga and the original anime, he's much taller, lankier, with a lot more buttons and shit on his coat. 3D anime can't really do those tiny details well, so those details aren't in there. It's losses like that which are a shame, but not a deal breaker.

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13 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

I mean, sure, if we want to be pedantic you could argue it's the art direction, not the CG itself, that's the issue. But that's probably because anime directors and designers aren't used to designing for 3D, so everything looks more plain, etc. It doesn't matter, it can look good, just a weird choice to go in that direction when we know 2D would look better for Trigun. I mean, even Vash in the trailer looks like a more typical anime hero protagonist. In the manga and the original anime, he's much taller, lankier, with a lot more buttons and shit on his coat. 3D anime can't really do those tiny details well, so those details aren't in there. It's losses like that which are a shame, but not a deal breaker.

 

3D anime should be able to do the crazy little details better than anything hand drawn ever should. Those tiny details take forever to animate whereas it's just a few extra minutes during the render. Not including them here is purely a design choice and not even technical limitation.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

3D anime should be able to do the crazy little details better than anything hand drawn ever should. Those tiny details take forever to animate whereas it's just a few extra minutes during the render. Not including them here is purely a design choice and not even technical limitation.

 

I've mentioned this to @Greatoneshere but he's got such a hate boner for SAC2045 he will never watch it. But yeah that show does things that would be very difficult to do if they had drawn it by hand. The episode on the freeway, with tons of explosions, bullets, cars,  fire, crazy action would be difficult to achieve with a hand drawn look and even if you did it would take eons to get that level of detail with a bunch of animators.

 

I think Mamoru Hosoda put it well. 2d and 3d do look different but at the end of the day a human is animating both and putting just as much love into the 3D as they are the 2D so you should be able to appreciate it either way.

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11 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

3D anime should be able to do the crazy little details better than anything hand drawn ever should. Those tiny details take forever to animate whereas it's just a few extra minutes during the render. Not including them here is purely a design choice and not even technical limitation.

 

 

If that's true that's a shame but all the 3D anime I've seen don't often do little details though.

 

9 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I've mentioned this to @Greatoneshere but he's got such a hate boner for SAC2045 he will never watch it. But yeah that show does things that would be very difficult to do if they had drawn it by hand. The episode on the freeway, with tons of explosions, bullets, cars,  fire, crazy action would be difficult to achieve with a hand drawn look and even if you did it would take eons to get that level of detail with a bunch of animators.

 

I think Mamoru Hosoda put it well. 2d and 3d do look different but at the end of the day a human is animating both and putting just as much love into the 3D as they are the 2D so you should be able to appreciate it either way.

 

I don't have a hate boner for it, I did finally see season 1 and it was bad. Since you haven't seen the original SAC you wouldn't know how good it was. The reviews are on point, it was shockingly bad. You liking it was an outlier, and the 3D animation did not help. And you guys keep missing my point. I like 3D. I don't even care if something looks bad, unlike others I didn't mind the CG in DIsney+ shows. But to argue that Trigun is better served by 3D animation for its style than 2D seems wrong to me. Doesn't mean it won't work, doesn't mean it won't look good, but I certainly think people would have preferred a lavish 2D animated production. I said in my very first response to the trailer that everything else looked on point, but there's no question the animation in its current state looks somewhat jank, a jank that likely wouldn't have been there with 2D, simple as that.

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56 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

If that's true that's a shame but all the 3D anime I've seen don't often do little details though.

 

Purely a design decision. The stuff that CG is good at is hyper detail and simulations. Exactly the sort of stuff that's difficult and time consuming to do with hand animation. Steamboy tried to do a lot of the hyper detail and destruction simulations by hand and it cost that movie a decade and sent Katsuhiro Otomo into early retirement. Well that and Metropolis, but whose keeping count of the crazy budgets and extra long productions?

 

There's no technical reason not to throw a million buttons on Vash's jacket and thousands screws on his arm other than design decisions. I think some of these anime directors are worried that going too detailed will distract from their attempts to make 3D look like 2D drawings. I argue they should lean into the CG even more. Take another stab at Berserk, only don't try to make it look like a 2D anime. I think Marza Animation has the right idea. Their work on Harlock and Lupin III was brilliant. Do Berserk like that.

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4 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

I’ll be interested to see how it turns out.  I loved the original Trigun but that show looked really rough a lot of the time.

 

It's an absolute crime that it hasn't been released on bluray in the US (I don't think it has in Japan either even). I do have a fan remastered upres download of the latest US DVD release we had and it looks surprisingly very good - made me appreciate the show in a new way. Thankfully the film is on bluray at least. 

 

I will say reading what the behind the scenes crew had to say at the Anime Expo panel unveiling certainly helped with my enthusiasm as they all seem to be really into Trigun and the projeect:

 

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WWW.ANIMENEWSNETWORK.COM

In response to the elephant in the room—why go the route of 3D CG—Takei agreed that the manga and '98 anime are masterpieces. “But I thought that as animation, we can do something else with it and that's how I came up with 3D CG.

 

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18 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

There’s a lot of anime blu ray weirdness.  I don’t think the original Berserk series has ever been released in the US on blu ray either.  
 

 

 

It has not, but you can find it online as Berserk has been released on bluray in Japan and fans have put the English dub on top of it (of course the original Japanese is always an option) and Berserk looked absolutely fanatstic on bluray. But there is a lot of bluray weirdness due to licensing issues, etc.

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