Microsoft Microsoft officially announces Xbox Game Pass for PC, update - PC Game Pass will cost $5/month

[SimpleG]

1 hour ago, atom631 said:

 

again - A PC of comparable specs to a X1X is double the cost or more. Youre just spending the money differently. It would be nice if we didnt have to pay for gold but they at least give you a few free games every month to  compensate. I really dont have a clue, but my guess is without this revenue, console prices would be considerably higher. 

 

$5 for access to hundreds of free games and day 1 access to exclusives is an exceptional deal.  what do you want them to do? give you Halo, Forza and Gears for free? 

This a terrible argument, the price difference  you pay on console vs the price on PC isn’t subsidizing to make up any difference. We are both paying access the same games . Can you imagine the shit storm if Netflix or Redbox charged based on how much you spent on your TV. 

[atom631]

5 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

This a terrible argument, the price difference  you pay on console vs the price on PC isn’t subsidizing to make up any difference. We are both paying access the same games . Can you imagine the shit storm if Netflix or Redbox charged based on how much you spent on your TV. 

 

Doesnt  Netflix's highest tier plan charge you for 4K content? Thats basically the same thing.

 

Arent 4K blu-rays more expensive vs DVDS at Redbox? 

[SimpleG]

6 minutes ago, atom631 said:

 

Doesnt  Netflix's highest tier plan charge you for 4K content? Thats basically the same thing.

 

Arent 4K blu-rays more expensive vs DVDS at Redbox? 

But MS isn’t charging more if I have Xbox and you have x1x though. It’s the same damn service . There isn’t a tier service based on quality if there was I might agree with you.

[atom631]

Just now, SimpleG said:

But MS isn’t charging more if I have Xbox and you have x1x though. It’s the same damn service 

 

but thats not the argument at all. Go back and look at our conversation. Its Xbox vs PC.

 

 

[SimpleG]

Just now, atom631 said:

 

but thats not the argument at all. Go back and look at our conversation. Its Xbox vs PC.

 

 

I Have a pc and dL gow and pay X price but you have  xbx1 and you pay more , for the same thing. that’s crispy argument. 

[atom631]

Just now, SimpleG said:

I Have a pc and dL gow and pay X price but you have  xbx1 and you pay more , for the same thing. that’s crispy argument. 

 

right... and my argument is this (disclaimer, i may be remembering this incorrectly, but I dont think so): 

 

i remember reading that MS makes little to no profit on the sale of a console. instead, their money is made on gold subscriptions and software sales. Crispy thinks gold should be eliminated bc PC players can play for free. My argument is that youre spending half the cost of a comparable PC as an entry point to play games and then you are amortizing the additional 400+ over the life of the console by purchasing gold. If MS does away with gold, then I would expect console prices to go up to make up for the lost revenue. 

 

and before anyone makes an argument that you can build a cheaper PC than $800... true. you can also get gold for $35-$40 vs the normal price of $60. 

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, atom631 said:

 

right... and my argument is this (disclaimer, i may be remembering this incorrectly, but I dont think so): 

 

i remember reading that MS makes little to no profit on the sale of a console. instead, their money is made on gold subscriptions and software sales. Crispy thinks gold should be eliminated bc PC players can play for free. My argument is that youre spending half the cost of a comparable PC as an entry point to play games and then you are amortizing the additional 400+ over the life of the console by purchasing gold. If MS does away with gold, then I would expect console prices to go up to make up for the lost revenue. 

 

and before anyone makes an argument that you can build a cheaper PC than $800... true. you can also get gold for $35-$40 vs the normal price of $60. 

Ms isn’t getting any of the money i spent on my pc. Using your logic I should pay more  because I coming in spending zero and you spent $400.

[Zaku3]

26 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Ms isn’t getting any of the money i spent on my pc. Using your logic I should pay more  because I coming in spending zero and you spent $400.

 

Windows 10.

[Dodger]

You can't really compare XBL or PSN to PCs. Before XBL, there was no reliable console network. Microsoft built it, and that cost money. And of course, being that consoles are all about what's "exclusive" to that console, that network was only good for MS consoles, so Sony had to go and build it's own network. Consoles are closed ecosystems and not open like PC's. For consoles, there is nothing like Steam where a publisher can offload it's server costs onto a third party in exchange for a cut of the sales. MS and Sony have to pay 100% of their online infrastructure themselves, and we're not likely to ever have some sort of console version of Steam. 

 

XBL and PSN aren't bad deals, someone had to build and maintain the online infrastructure you are using. You just take it for granted Steam is paying all this shit for you. 

 

 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, atom631 said:

 

again - A PC of comparable specs to a X1X is double the cost or more. Youre just spending the money differently. It would be nice if we didnt have to pay for gold but they at least give you a few free games every month to  compensate. I really dont have a clue, but my guess is without this revenue, console prices would be considerably higher. 

 

$5 for access to hundreds of free games and day 1 access to exclusives is an exceptional deal.  what do you want them to do? give you Halo, Forza and Gears for free? 

 

The ‘spending money different’ argument is bad to begin with because almost no PC multiplayer games are subscription locked.  I can decide not to spend any money on games / gaming services for a year and access all the same content I once could.  There are exceptions like MMOs and server shutdowns, but those exist as such on consoles too. 

 

I don’t think the hardware cost element is so applicable either.  PC hardware is more expensive, but game prices tend to be cheaper due to digital competition, much better game bundles, and more frequent giveaways.  I find that’s actually where the scales balance out, not online paywalls. And if you’re not spending that $30-60 a year on what they dictate to you, as with Gold, you have more agency in putting it towards what you might actually want to buy. 

 

Plus, if you need a Gold subscription to unlock your console’s online capabilities in earnest, it makes the machine a lot more expensive than the sticker price suggests.  Red tape.

 

.... You keep bringing up Games Pass, just not by name.  The $5 for an instant library of 100’s of games thing.  For the last time, that’s not my beef here.  It’s Gold.  Games Pass is making it redundant.  PC gaming is making it redundant.  Yet Microsoft still feels the need to charge for it and keep the online walls up on consoles, because they can.

 

[TomCat]

the money I spend on live is well worth it.  One unified service to talk to all my xbox friends.  On Pc you have all kinds of ways to communicate thats not what console gamers want. They want simplicity.  The Price I pay for Gold is WELL WORTH IT. Just because something is free doesnt mean it is better. 

[crispy4000]

49 minutes ago, TomCat said:

the money I spend on live is well worth it.  One unified service to talk to all my xbox friends.  On Pc you have all kinds of ways to communicate thats not what console gamers want. They want simplicity.  The Price I pay for Gold is WELL WORTH IT. Just because something is free doesnt mean it is better. 

 

But you aren’t paying extra for that.  That comes standard with the hardware.

 

You also could limit yourself to that ecosystem on PC if you really wanted too.  I’d imagine some people who buy into Games Pass on PC will do just that. 

[atom631]

2 hours ago, SimpleG said:

Ms isn’t getting any of the money i spent on my pc. Using your logic I should pay more  because I coming in spending zero and you spent $400.

 

2 hours ago, SimpleG said:

Ms isn’t getting any of the money i spent on my pc. Using your logic I should pay more  because I coming in spending zero and you spent $400.

 

1 hour ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Windows 10.

 

And of course, game pass for PC. Sure you could buy gears 5 @ $60 for instance and that would be it. But the value proposition of $5/mo for gears 5 plus hundreds of other games make it a no brainer. And that’s exactly what they are banking on. The PC has been established and MS putting a paywall up to play their games online would be dead in the water. They know that. The game pass for PC is answer and it’s a smart one. 

[SimpleG]

10 minutes ago, atom631 said:

 

 

 

And of course, game pass for PC. Sure you could buy gears 5 @ $60 for instance and that would be it. But the value proposition of $5/mo for gears 5 plus hundreds of other games make it a no brainer. And that’s exactly what they are banking on. The PC has been established and MS putting a paywall up to play their games online would be dead in the water. They know that. The game pass for PC is answer and it’s a smart one. 

I paid nothing for my win 10

 

i am not talking about purchasing the game. If I get gow on game pass I pay less then you do just because MS has decided console gamers will take it in the ass because that’s the way it’s always been.

[atom631]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

The ‘spending money different’ argument is bad to begin with because almost no PC multiplayer games are subscription locked.  I can decide not to spend any money on games / gaming services for a year and access all the same content I once could.  There are exceptions like MMOs and server shutdowns, but those exist as such on consoles too. 

 

I don’t think the hardware cost element is so applicable either.  PC hardware is more expensive, but game prices tend to be cheaper due to digital competition, much better game bundles, and more frequent giveaways.  I find that’s actually where the scales balance out, not online paywalls. And if you’re not spending that $30-60 a year on what they dictate to you, as with Gold, you have more agency in putting it towards what you might actually want to buy. 

 

Plus, if you need a Gold subscription to unlock your console’s online capabilities in earnest, it makes the machine a lot more expensive than the sticker price suggests.  Red tape.

 

.... You keep bringing up Games Pass, just not by name.  The $5 for an instant library of 100’s of games thing.  For the last time, that’s not my beef here.  It’s Gold.  Games Pass is making it redundant.  PC gaming is making it redundant.  Yet Microsoft still feels the need to charge for it and keep the online walls up on consoles, because they can.

 

The same can be said about consoles on your first paragraph. You only need gold to play online. I’ve got a few RL friends who don’t pay for gold and only play SP games. 

 

As for your 2nd paragraph - the same can be said for consoles again. Sony and MS both have really good sales almost monthly (and even better with gold).  Also - if you buy physical, you actually own the game, whereas that’s not the case on PC except for ancient games at this point. And let’s be real, steam sales are not what they used to be since they implemented returns. 

 

3rd paragraph, I’ve explained already(and no one corrected me for being wrong) is that gold subsidizes the lower cost up front  for a console. $400 for console x 6yrs of gold at $60 = $760. That’s where I’m getting $800 comparable for a PC. 

 

Last paragraph, pretty much everything else I said. Gold subsidizes the lower cost of a console. Without it, MS needs to capture that revenue elsewhere - it’ll be in raising the price of the console.

[atom631]

3 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I paid nothing for my win 10

Well you either paid something at some point and upgraded or you pirated. 

 

Not really going to argue the pirated thing with you. My only counterargument to that is consoles don’t have to worry about hackers wrecking mp games. 

[atom631]

Also - with gold (not sure how ultimate or game pass works) but it allows for up 2 different profiles to use the same subscription. I have my sons Xbox set as my home Xbox and then my 1X auto signs into my profile. Anything I buy digitally and gold also goes on my sons Xbox. 

 

Ive never tried on my pc, but can you do this with steam or the other launchers? 

[Xbob42]

It's simple and it has nothing to do with the cost of the machine: console gamers are used to paying stupid prices for subscriptions, they slurp that shit down. I've talked with people on this very forum who've argued what a good deal XBL or PSN or even fucking Nintendo's garbage service are. Shit, it's called "not a bad deal" in this very thread. When people are so detached from their money, so eager to defend a bad deal that they'll go online and argue about the merits of paying to use the internet you already pay for to go online on a game you already paid for... Why NOT charge them more? There's a fucking idiot in the FF7 thread talking about how they'd GLADLY buy the game multiple times to have the full game, because gamers are brain dead fucking morons.

[Guest]

MS charges for online multiplayer as a means of recouping hardware subsidies. This is plainly obvious.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Dodger said:

 

XBL and PSN aren't bad deals, someone had to build and maintain the online infrastructure you are using. You just take it for granted Steam is paying all this shit for you. 

 

 

Yes, with the royalties they earn from publishers putting games on their service.  Or from what they’re not charging themselves for on their own titles.

 

The paywall fees are gravy.  It’s nothing any of these big companies need to stay competitive in 2019.  Mobile and the dozens of different PC clients all prove this. 

 

 

[atom631]

14 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

MS charges for online multiplayer as a means of recouping hardware subsidies. This is plainly obvious.

Apparently not bc we’re all braindead morons for understanding that. 

 

I guess the solution should be for MS to sell consoles at even or a loss so entitled gamers can get everything they want at price they feel is acceptable. 

[SimpleG]

1 hour ago, atom631 said:

Well you either paid something at some point and upgraded or you pirated. 

Win 10 can be dl for free and used without activation but you get a small  watermark on the corner.

 

51 minutes ago, atom631 said:

Also - with gold (not sure how ultimate or game pass works) but it allows for up 2 different profiles to use the same subscription. I have my sons Xbox set as my home Xbox and then my 1X auto signs into my profile. Anything I buy digitally and gold also goes on my sons Xbox. 

 

Steam has family sharing but I ve never used it.

[Xbob42]

17 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

MS charges for online multiplayer as a means of recouping hardware subsidies. This is plainly obvious.

Ah, yes. Plainly obvious that being charged between $40-60 for 7-8 years is totally recouping like $40 lost on a console sale, if they even operate selling at a loss anymore. Not that the manufacturing side gets easier and cheaper as parts are more widely available and lower-end, or the fact that they sell games and get licensing fees on every title sold on their platform, or the fact that it's fucking Microsoft.

 

But yeah, let's make excuses so it doesn't seem quite so bad. Let's justify our bad deals instead of trying to get a better one. After all, it's only $40-60, and then $40-60 for the other one, and $20 for the other one, and like $14-15 for Netflix, but also Hulu, gotta get that HBO too, hang on subbing to EA Access, and Ubi Access, and Game Pass, wait, where'd all my money go?

[atom631]

Just now, Xbob42 said:

Ah, yes. Plainly obvious that being charged between $40-60 for 7-8 years is totally recouping like $40 lost on a console sale, if they even operate selling at a loss anymore. Not that the manufacturing side gets easier and cheaper as parts are more widely available and lower-end, or the fact that they sell games and get licensing fees on every title sold on their platform, or the fact that it's fucking Microsoft.

 

But yeah, let's make excuses so it doesn't seem quite so bad. Let's justify our bad deals instead of trying to get a better one. After all, it's only $40-60, and then $40-60 for the other one, and $20 for the other one, and like $14-15 for Netflix, but also Hulu, gotta get that HBO too, hang on subbing to EA Access, and Ubi Access, and Game Pass, wait, where'd all my money go?

Newsflash!!! Businesses are in business to make money! And you aren’t forced to buy any of it.    Novel idea, I know. 

[SimpleG]

Just now, atom631 said:

Apparently not bc we’re all braindead morons for understanding that. 

 

I guess the solution should be for MS to sell consoles at even or a loss so entitled gamers can get everything they want at price they feel is acceptable. 

So they recoup the cost of hardware on game sales and then hit your wallet again so you can play the same game you just bought on line

 

 

Sounds like a braindead moron thing to do

 

[Xbob42]

Just now, atom631 said:

Newsflash!!! Businesses are in business to make money! And you aren’t forced to buy any of it.    Novel idea, I know. 

No fucking shit they're in business to make money. Goddamn people. You don't have to jump through mental hoops to fucking justify it and accept everything as it is. Consumers can negotiate better deals if they're not spineless fucking twerps.

 

You should ALSO be trying to save money! Not just giving them free passes! Make them fight for your dollar, don't fight FOR them! Ugh!

[atom631]

Just now, SimpleG said:

So they recoup the cost of hardware on game sales and then hit your wallet again so you can play the same game you just bought on line

 

 

Sounds like a braindead moron thing to do

 

I’m going to use this logic next time i go buy a car. Base model is $30k but since I already bought the car and most of the connections are already in place, I’m entitled to all the add-ons for free! I already bought it, right? 

[Xbob42]

2 minutes ago, atom631 said:

I’m going to use this logic next time i go buy a car. Base model is $30k but since I already bought the car and most of the connections are already in place, I’m entitled to all the add-ons for free! I already bought it, right? 

Do you just go to the dealer and pay whatever the fuck the sticker says without trying to get a better deal?

If so, that would make you a fucking moron. Or wealthy enough to not give a shit, in which case, you'd probably be fighting even HARDER for a better deal because people with money tend to fight for deals.

Not only have we forgotten how to negotiate, we actively have to attack people who tell us to negotiate, or at the very least to want a better deal. Not accepting whatever someone shits at you is "never being happy" rather than "wanting things better." It's like we've taken a bullet train to crazy town where we're super concerned about the wallets of corporations but not our own fucking wallets. YOU come first, not any company!

[crispy4000]

 

1 hour ago, atom631 said:

The same can be said about consoles on your first paragraph. You only need gold to play online. I’ve got a few RL friends who don’t pay for gold and only play SP games. 

 

“I can decide not to spend any money on games / gaming services for a year and access all the same content I once could.“

 

I can’t access all the same content when a paywall subscriptions expires.  Online multiplayer modes are content.

 

1 hour ago, atom631 said:

The same can be said about consoles on your first paragraph. You only need gold to play online. I’ve got a few RL friends who don’t pay for gold and only play SP games. 

 

As for your 2nd paragraph - the same can be said for consoles again. Sony and MS both have really good sales almost monthly (and even better with gold).  Also - if you buy physical, you actually own the game, whereas that’s not the case on PC except for ancient games at this point. And let’s be real, steam sales are not what they used to be since they implemented returns. 

 

3rd paragraph, I’ve explained already(and no one corrected me for being wrong) is that gold subsidizes the lower cost up front  for a console. $400 for console x 6yrs of gold at $60 = $760. That’s where I’m getting $800 comparable for a PC. 

 

Last paragraph, pretty much everything else I said. Gold subsidizes the lower cost of a console. Without it, MS needs to capture that revenue elsewhere - it’ll be in raising the price of the console.

 

Maybe you just don’t buy games on PC often anymore.  Steam sales are old fashioned.  I only “buy” things on there when I use my free credit.

 

GMG typically sells Steam keys for new releases for sub $50.  They consistently beat XBLG/PSN+ prices on the AAA games they sell.  As do publishers’ own launchers for their own stuff.

 

Only way to match Humble and Fanatical’s bundle deals on consoles is to hit up eBay and hope the discs aren’t scratched up.  But only for retail games.

 

Indie game prices almost always hit historical lows on PC first.  Only exceptions are those rare cases when the PC port comes late.

 

Those concerns about DRM are overblown, IMO, particularly in comparison to these modern subscription libraries where games are periodically removed to change up the menu.

 

Ultimately, I’d rather have a Steam license for a game than a physical disc with modes that break if I don’t keep throwing money at it.

[atom631]

4 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

No fucking shit they're in business to make money. Goddamn people. You don't have to jump through mental hoops to fucking justify it and accept everything as it is. Consumers can negotiate better deals if they're not spineless fucking twerps.

 

You should ALSO be trying to save money! Not just giving them free passes! Make them fight for your dollar, don't fight FOR them! Ugh!

I’m going to start an online petition to have MS go from $400 a console to $700 console so they can make that money up front and give me online services (optional) for free.  

 

Im going to Redmond right now with my picket. 

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, atom631 said:

I’m going to use this logic next time i go buy a car. Base model is $30k but since I already bought the car and most of the connections are already in place, I’m entitled to all the add-ons for free! I already bought it, right? 

You really are terrible at this

What car company or dealer chargers a monthly fee to use a basic function.

 

 

[atom631]

1 minute ago, SimpleG said:

You really are terrible at this

What car company or dealer chargers a monthly fee to use a basic function.

 

 

Sirius is embedded in every new car. Yet I have to pay a monthly subscription for it. 

 

EDIT - navigation. Remote start. Etc. ever buy a new car? 

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, atom631 said:

I’m going to start an online petition to have MS go from $400 a console to $700 console so they can make that money up front and give me online services (optional) for free.  

 

Im going to Redmond right now with my picket. 

Seems like waste, they know console user will take a money shot for a cheap low monthly fee.

[atom631]

Just now, SimpleG said:

Seems like waste, they know console user will take a money shot for a cheap low monthly fee.

Or I can build a $1500 pc and laugh at console players for their $400 box about how their getting ripped off. 

[SimpleG]

1 minute ago, atom631 said:

Sirius is embedded in every new car. Yet I have to pay a monthly subscription for it. 

This is your issue, you look at on line service as some kind extra perk when it not. This isnt sirus radio , this is using your speedometer.