NHS (UK) bans puberty blockers for trans minors

[CitizenVectron]

NHS bans puberty blockers for children

WWW.THETIMES.CO.UK

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Gender identity clinics will be prevented from giving the drugs, which pause the physical changes of puberty, following a public consultation on the issue

 

Quote

Children will no longer be prescribed puberty blockers at gender identity clinics, NHS England has confirmed.

The ban was welcomed by the government as a "landmark decision" that would help ensure care was based on evidence and was in the "best interests of the child".

Puberty blockers halt the physical changes of puberty, such as breast development or facial hair. They will now be available to children only as part of clinical research trials.

It follows a public consultation, an interim policy and an independent review of gender identity services for under 18s, commissioned by NHS England in 2020.

 

It appears the ban might only apply to England, and not Scotland or Wales. Monsters. Transphobes of course start with "we just want to ban surgery since it's so invasive, but hormones are okay since they can be reversed later." Then it's "hormones are dangerous." Next it will be "trans people are against the natural order of things." Then violence. The US is already halfway through that scale in many places, and the UK is basically matching them.

[Mr.Vic20]

England: We peaked a long time ago and are fairly gutted about the whole affair. We've a new approach though and are thoroughly chuffed to set conditions such that time itself reverses and the queen reanimates! 

[Jason]

Sorry guys, I jinxed the timeline when I laughed at the Brexit results coming in live while sitting in a bar in Chicago in June 2016. I was especially laughing at Brexit going through because of heavy rain in London suppressing turnout.

[AlwaysDyingX]

Not a transphobe by any means. I believe everyone should be happy/live their best life BUT you all think children should be able to make such a huge decision to take drugs that stop puberty?  Kids are idiots. 

 

Article is paywalled so I cant see their definition of children 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 minutes ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

Not a transphobe by any means. I believe everyone should be happy/live their best life BUT you all think children should be able to make such a huge decision to take drugs that stop puberty?  Kids are idiots. 

These aren’t drugs you give away to kids at Halloween there’s doctors involved

[AlwaysDyingX]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

These aren’t drugs you give away to kids at Halloween there’s doctors involved

 

 

Doctors give medications away like it's Halloween all the time...

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

 

Doctors give medications away like it's Halloween all the time...

The joke is no one gives out drugs to kids on Halloween. But I can attest that getting medication for Minors is a pain in the ass and expensive to boot 

[mclumber1]

My niece was convinced she was a boy after going to therapy, and went as far as legally changing her name to a boy's name.  She changed her mind and wanted to be a girl again about a year later, and thankfully didn't take any type of hormones or have any surgeries during that time period.   

[Jason]

32 minutes ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

Not a transphobe by any means. I believe everyone should be happy/live their best life BUT you all think children should be able to make such a huge decision to take drugs that stop puberty?  Kids are idiots. 

 

Article is paywalled so I cant see their definition of children 

 

The entire point of doing the puberty blockers instead of surgery is that unlike surgery it's not permanent, if you change your mind and stop taking the blockers then you'll go through puberty like normal. It's literally the "let's delay making any huge decisions until you're 18" option.

[AlwaysDyingX]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

The entire point of doing the puberty blockers instead of surgery is that unlike surgery it's not permanent, if you change your mind and stop taking the blockers then you'll go through puberty like normal. It's literally the "let's delay making any huge decisions until you're 18" option.

 

 

That makes sense. 

[TUFKAK]

15 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

My niece was convinced she was a boy after going to therapy, and went as far as legally changing her name to a boy's name.  She changed her mind and wanted to be a girl again about a year later, and thankfully didn't take any type of hormones or have any surgeries during that time period.   

The anti therapy tone here y’all 

[CitizenVectron]

17 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

My niece was convinced she was a boy after going to therapy, and went as far as legally changing her name to a boy's name.  She changed her mind and wanted to be a girl again about a year later, and thankfully didn't take any type of hormones or have any surgeries during that time period.   

 

And under no proposed or existing solution would she have had surgery or taken puberty blockers in that timeframe.

[mclumber1]

3 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

The anti therapy tone here y’all 

 

Therapy is helpful.  Our own daughter goes to therapy and it's been really good for her.  I do think that our niece's particular therapist was a poor fit.

 

2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

And under no proposed or existing solution would she have had surgery or taken puberty blockers in that timeframe.

 

I'm not well versed on the laws or policies concerning these things, I'll admit.  Quickly looking into it, the state where our niece lives, gender affirming care (including hormone treatments) are available to minors with parental consent.  I was just offering an anecdote about a family experience.

[AlwaysDyingX]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

 I was just offering an anecdote about a family experience.

 

 

Doesn't matter they attack as soon as you don't agree with the hive mind here. 

[CitizenVectron]

1 minute ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

 

Doesn't matter they attack as soon as you don't agree with the hive mind here. 

 

You have an interesting definition of attack, if a mere correction is considered harsh*

 

*the aforementioned sentence was not meant to impose on any snowflake's sensitive mind, should any offense be taken

[AlwaysDyingX]

31 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

You have an interesting definition of attack, if a mere correction is considered harsh*

 

*the aforementioned sentence was not meant to impose on any snowflake's sensitive mind, should any offense be taken

 

 

I was speaking more to tufuck's response. 

[Xbob42]

53 minutes ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

 

I was speaking more to tufuck's response. 

Was his response an attack? Goddamn dude, next time you better jump in front of the quote before it kills the poor man.

[AlwaysDyingX]

9 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

Was his response an attack? Goddamn dude, next time you better jump in front of the quote before it kills the poor man.

 

K.

[Xbob42]

24 minutes ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

K.

Look at this aggression!

[AbsolutSurgen]

WRT how easy it is to get a prescription.  A couple of weeks ago, Radio-Canada (French version of CBC) documented a 14-year old (without their parents) who was able to get a Testosterone prescription within 17-minutes of their first appointment at a gender clinic (they were not referred there by a therapist, psychologist, etc.). YMMV on whether this is an appropriate level of consultation.  Taking testosterone for a 14-year old transboy is not apples-to-apples with puberty blockers, but is arguably significantly more permanent.

Edit:  This was a "journalist sting", where they hired an actress because they had heard this was a problem.

 

4 hours ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

 

That makes sense. 

The reason the NHS (and the health authorities in Sweden and Finland) have "blocked" puberty blockers for the treatment of gender dysphoria is that they don't believe there is sufficient evidence about there long term safety and efficacy.  They have committed to kicking off a study this year to determine this. That said, there does seem to be a path forward, at least according to the BBC article, for some to get access to them.

In particular, one of the concerns that is repeatedly cited is that there are a number anecdotal reports of of bone density in teens being equivalent to someone with osteoporosis after several years of use. Anecdotes does not science make, but there doesn't seem to be much science here anyways.

[CitizenVectron]

I can find examples of doctors fondling patients under anesthesia, but that doesn't mean it's an accepted practice. 

[LazyPiranha]

12 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

WRT how easy it is to get a prescription.  A couple of weeks ago, Radio-Canada (French version of CBC) documented a 14-year old (without their parents) who was able to get a Testosterone prescription within 17-minutes of their first appointment at a gender clinic (they were not referred there by a therapist, psychologist, etc.). YMMV on whether this is an appropriate level of consultation.  Taking testosterone for a 14-year old transboy is not apples-to-apples with puberty blockers, but is arguably significantly more permanent.

Edit:  This was a "journalist sting", where they hired an actress because they had heard this was a problem.

 

The reason the NHS (and the health authorities in Sweden and Finland) have "blocked" puberty blockers for the treatment of gender dysphoria is that they don't believe there is sufficient evidence about there long term safety and efficacy.  They have committed to kicking off a study this year to determine this. That said, there does seem to be a path forward, at least according to the BBC article, for some to get access to them.

In particular, one of the concerns that is repeatedly cited is that there are a number anecdotal reports of of bone density in teens being equivalent to someone with osteoporosis after several years of use. Anecdotes does not science make, but there doesn't seem to be much science here anyways.

You can go to a shitty doctor and get a script for pain pills if you’re dedicated.  Should we ban all pain medication?  The existence of shitty doctors does not negate actual medicine, it means you deal with the shitty doctor.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

20 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

You can go to a shitty doctor and get a script for pain pills if you’re dedicated.  Should we ban all pain medication?  The existence of shitty doctors does not negate actual medicine, it means you deal with the shitty doctor.  

You're strawmanning NHS's rationale.  They said there was no science that demonstrated puberty blockers were a safe and effective way of treating gender dysphoria.  That is why they are limiting their use to research studies.

Pain medication has been through double-blind randomized control trials to determine their safety and efficacy.

[TUFKAK]

15 hours ago, BasemntDweller2 said:

 

 

I was speaking more to tufuck's response. 

Put some respect on my name.
 

I work in healthcare, I’ve a fuck ton of anecdotes that go against the literature, I’ll never imply medical consensus is wrong cause of one case but hey. I look forward to your guys opinions on a topic you don’t fully understand. Someone self harmed in therapy. Therapy causes self harm!

 

Also yes I’m fucking a bunch again thanks.

[TUFKAK]

36 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

You're strawmanning NHS's rationale.  They said there was no science that demonstrated puberty blockers were a safe and effective way of treating gender dysphoria.  That is why they are limiting their use to research studies.

Pain medication has been through double-blind randomized control trials to determine their safety and efficacy.

Lol

[AlwaysDyingX]

3 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

Put some respect on my name.
 

I work in healthcare, I’ve a fuck ton of anecdotes that go against the literature, I’ll never imply medical consensus is wrong cause of one case but hey. I look forward to your guys opinions on a topic you don’t fully understand. Someone self harmed in therapy. Therapy causes self harm!

 

Also yes I’m fucking a bunch again thanks.

 

 

WHAT

 

I think therapy is awesome.

[TUFKAK]

The tone was very much anti therapy in nature, not your post but the one you’re calling me out for criticizing.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Hilary Cass: Weak evidence letting down children over gender care

WWW.BBC.COM

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A landmark report says "toxicity" of debate is hampering medical research into gender services.

Spoiler

The Cass Review, published on Wednesday by paediatrician Dr Hilary Cass, calls for gender services for young people to match the standards of other NHS care.

She says the "toxicity" of the debate around gender meant professionals were "afraid" to openly discuss their views.

NHS England says it has already made significant progress in making changes.

The Cass Review, which looked at gender identity services for under-18s, was commissioned by NHS England in 2020 after a sharp rise in the number of patients referred to the NHS who were questioning their gender.

It was announced after whistle-blowers raised concerns about care at the Gender Identity and Development Service (Gids) - which was the only specialist gender clinic for children and young people in England and Wales.

Gids closed last week, four years after it was rated as "inadequate" by inspectors.

....

She said "we don't have good evidence" that puberty blockers are safe to use to "arrest puberty", adding that what started out as a clinical trial had been expanded to a wider group of young people before the results of that trial were available.

"It is unusual for us to give a potentially life-changing treatment to young people and not know what happens to them in adulthood, and that's been a particular problem that we haven't had the follow-up into adulthood to know what the results of this are," she said.

In the weeks leading up to the review's publication, NHS England announced puberty blockers - which Dr Cass defines as hormones that "stop the progress of puberty" - would no longer be routinely prescribed, and should only be given to gender-distressed children as part of clinical trials.

....

"The reality is we have no good evidence on the long-term outcomes of interventions to manage gender-related distress," she writes.

She is clear that children and young adults using the services deserve the highest standards of care and research, which are expected elsewhere in the NHS.

Her report adds that representatives from the regional centres should form a national group to oversee ethics, training and to ensure everyone receives "the same high standards of evidence-based care".

 

https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/CassReview_Final.pdf

 

If she is right about one thing, it is about the toxicity on almost any discussion of the data.  Both Far-Right and Far-Left activists quickly turn any discussion into culture warriors clashes that IMHO quickly devolve into ad hominem attacks.

[Jwheel86]

On 3/13/2024 at 9:21 AM, LazyPiranha said:

Should we ban all pain medication?

 

No, but we kind of did in response to the opioid epidemic and are about to with ADHD drugs. The hoops you have to go through to get an opioid rx now have devastated the disability community.