Television Star Trek: Picard - Season 3 (16 February 2023) - Official Trailer

[elbobo]

We really going to do more Badmirals/Starfleet is taken over? I feel this plot device has crossed the line from trope to lazy and it probably did so 5 bad admirals ago, we even had one in season 1 of Picard and one in the latest season of Lower Decks.

 

Raffi remains the worst, her scenes just suck the life out the show and even Worf can't save them.

 

Still curious to see what the deal with Jack is, lots of directions they can take that, hopeful for a good payoff.

[BloodyHell]

I think Raffi has been great, and im absolutely fine with Changeling infiltration. The idea that all the changelings just left after the war is a little far fetched. I always wondered what the future of the changelings would be. Though I’m not sure I like their evolution, but whatever, they aren’t even close to humanoid, who’s to say what form their evolution took?

 

I like Raffi and Worf. I agree it would be better without her, and with  Cabrera still in the show instead. I think Rios and Worf would have been much more interesting together. I also think Rios and Seven would have made a more interesting couple. 
 

i would give anything for a mini series on DS9. I don’t even need anything with all of the Original cast, I just want to see the future of the wormhole and the Station. Especially if it was with Behr show running. Just a 8-10 episode story on the promenade. Maybe Bring back one character (I think Visitor would do it), some cameos, but just do a real, hopeful star wars story on the space station, wormhole and all.

[BloodyHell]

Also, does Jack maybe have some kind of “Borg DNA”?

Maybe they didn’t have Shaw bring up Locutus for nothing?

 

Is it the reason for Jacks weird visions and sudden incredible reflexes?

 

Im just lost.

Also, I like Shaw. Hes an interesting counterpoint to Riker/Picard. I like hearing him call them on their shit lol. 

[SoberChef]

SO many emotional beats in this episode. LEGIT, now that TLoU is over, THIS SHOW is my most anticipated week to week (in all sincerity, after the inaugural episode of this season, I have felt this way but it only become more pronounced after watching this weeks' episode!) I absolutely got choked up & failed miserably at fighting back tears twice in this episode, those that  have seen will know which moments. JFC I don't know if I ever loved Trek THIS much or if the nostalgia is hitting me so fucking hard, either way I despise that this is the final season but what a way to go out right?

[SoberChef]

Also, let's give it up for Kirk Acevedo showing up as well, I've enjoyed this actors work since the first season of 'OZ', always awesome to see him pop up!

[BloodyHell]

6 hours ago, SoberChef said:

SO many emotional beats in this episode. LEGIT, now that TLoU is over, THIS SHOW is my most anticipated week to week (in all sincerity, after the inaugural episode of this season, I have felt this way but it only become more pronounced after watching this weeks' episode!) I absolutely got choked up & failed miserably at fighting back tears twice in this episode, those that  have seen will know which moments. JFC I don't know if I ever loved Trek THIS much or if the nostalgia is hitting me so fucking hard, either way I despise that this is the final season but what a way to go out right?

It just feels so good to have a season done by people who love trek and understand what made the cast of TNG great.

 

Also, Acevedo isn’t in nearly enough projects.

[SoberChef]

True story about Acevedo for real though! His death scene in 'The Thin Red Line' ... FUCK! So damn amazing.

[BloodyHell]

5 minutes ago, SoberChef said:

True story about Acevedo for real though! His death scene in 'The Thin Red Line' ... FUCK! So damn amazing.

Like you, I discovered him in Oz (JK Simmons as well), and have followed his career since. It shocks me he’s not a bigger name.

 

He did a great job as a criminal Vulcan though. 
 

“That…. Would be logical.”

[SoberChef]

A Vulcan Crimelord is fucking genius & shockingly has never been done before ... it's actually illogical that it is only now when it has been done & by such a fantastic actor. You're not wrong about him being criminally underused in literally everything. OZ was not only so far ahead of its time, but seriously highlighted so many NY based actors & gave so many a real opportunity. I'll always hold that show near & dear to me.

[elbobo]

speculation about characters seen the in the trailer but not on the show yet

 

 

stole this from reddit. The AI guarding Daystrom is going to be Lore and the program that the Vulcn crime boss provided will be Moriarty since he can beat Data he should be able to beat Lore

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, SoberChef said:

A Vulcan Crimelord is fucking genius & shockingly has never been done before ... it's actually illogical that it is only now when it has been done & by such a fantastic actor. You're not wrong about him being criminally underused in literally everything. OZ was not only so far ahead of its time, but seriously highlighted so many NY based actors & gave so many a real opportunity. I'll always hold that show near & dear to me.

There was Menos. He wasn't exactly a crime lord, but he was a Smuggler. There has been mention of other Vulcan criminals (spocks brother) as well. 

 

26 minutes ago, elbobo said:

speculation about characters seen the in the trailer but on the show yet

 

 

  Hide contents

stole this from reddit. The AI guarding Daystrom is going to be Lore and the program that the Vulcn crime boss provided will be Moriarty since he can beat Data he should be able to beat Lore

 

Spoiler

I actually really like that idea, but there's no way Starfleet ever trusted Lore enough to protect Daystrom. I could very well be wrong, but it's hard to see how they get to a place where Starfleet trusts lore that much. 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

9 hours ago, elbobo said:

speculation about characters seen the in the trailer but not on the show yet

 

  Hide contents

stole this from reddit. The AI guarding Daystrom is going to be Lore and the program that the Vulcn crime boss provided will be Moriarty since he can beat Data he should be able to beat Lore

 

9 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

There was Menos. He wasn't exactly a crime lord, but he was a Smuggler. There has been mention of other Vulcan criminals (spocks brother) as well. 

 

  Hide contents

I actually really like that idea, but there's no way Starfleet ever trusted Lore enough to protect Daystrom. I could very well be wrong, but it's hard to see how they get to a place where Starfleet trusts lore that much. 

 

It’s possible it might be the other way around. 

[Chairslinger]

18 hours ago, SoberChef said:

SO many emotional beats in this episode. LEGIT, now that TLoU is over, THIS SHOW is my most anticipated week to week (in all sincerity, after the inaugural episode of this season, I have felt this way but it only become more pronounced after watching this weeks' episode!) I absolutely got choked up & failed miserably at fighting back tears twice in this episode, those that  have seen will know which moments. JFC I don't know if I ever loved Trek THIS much or if the nostalgia is hitting me so fucking hard, either way I despise that this is the final season but what a way to go out right?

 

 

After episode 4 my opinion was basically that people need to stop worrying about whether s3 would be any good at all, and start considering how it might stack up against the best seasons of Star Trek ever. If it can end as strong as it started, I think I would put it up there somewhere with TNG s3-6 and DS9 s5-7.

 

 

18 hours ago, SoberChef said:

Also, let's give it up for Kirk Acevedo showing up as well, I've enjoyed this actors work since the first season of 'OZ', always awesome to see him pop up!

 

11 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

It just feels so good to have a season done by people who love trek and understand what made the cast of TNG great.

 

Also, Acevedo isn’t in nearly enough projects.

 

 

Has anyone else here watched the 12 Monkey's series? Terry Matalas was a showrunner for that, as well.

At this point s3 almost feels like an unofficial reunion for that show. Shaw, Sneed, and Krinn were all main cast members on the show(as was Picard's father from last season.). Really interested to see if Amanda Schull, Emily Hampshire, or Brooke Williams show up at some point.  Also, it is probably just convergent art/direction style from Matalas but the Red Forest from 12 Monkey's seems very reminiscent of whatever is happening to Jack, and tell me if this bad guy mask/outfit from 12 Monkey's doesn't look a little familiar......

 

Spoiler

 

 

And as a side note, that big guy behind Vadic is looking like he is going to be introduced next week(guess work from a close watch of some of the previews) as muscle. Looking like he might be the Beta to Vadic's Alpha. Will be funny if it turns out to be Tom Noonan as he played a similar role in 12 Monkeys and is also a very tall man.

 

 

To bring it back to what I said at the top. With such a strong start to the season I am pretty confident that we will get a strong ending. I think the endings for s1 and s2 were pretty good to begin with(the moments with Data and Q respectively are some of my favorites in all of New Trek....it was the getting there that had some questionable moments). Also, 12 Monkey's had a very strong ending, so that bodes well for the show, as well. Terry Matalas is giving me big Manny Coto season 4 of Enterprise vibes right now. I am really impressed with what he is doing and it should be a no brainer to put him in charge of at least one show going forward imho.

[Jason]

lol I can't believe they literally did Ricardo Diaz (the Arrow season 6-7 villain) but Vulcan

[BloodyHell]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

lol I can't believe they literally did Ricardo Diaz (the Arrow season 6-7 villain) but Vulcan

I mean, pretending its Ricardo Diaz is a bit ridiculous. The only two things the characters have in common is that they are criminals and have the same actor.

 

if yhats the case, Ricardo Diaz is just Miguel Diaz with super powers. They even have the same last name. 

[elbobo]

I think this was my least favorite episode of the season so far, not anywhere near season 1 and 2 bad but off the mark compared to the rest of 3. The dialogue seemed to drift back into the waxing poetic nature that we were burdened with in the first two seasons. Also REALLY not a fan of bring "Data" back again, how many times do they have to kill him off to kill him for good?

 

They are going to go max fan service if the fleet parade takes place back at the fleet museum. The gang is going to have use all the old ships that aren't networked together to get around whatever the plot obstacle is in the finale.

[BloodyHell]

I liked it a lot, but still agree it was worst of the season. 
I have some thoughts for sure, but ill get into them after when I’m at my laptop.

 

I really have no problem with it, we learned a lot more, the story doesn’t feel rushed, I thought most of the reveals were good. 
 

I wish we got a little more history on this group of changelings after the Dominion War.

[Captain Pickle]

I don’t even care about the plot so much after two crap seasons. I’m just so giddy with them being on an actual damn starship and all my friends are back!

[SoberChef]

To echo what the Pickled Captain had to say, I too am at the point where I just want a shot of all of MY old crew together one last time.

 

Also, anyone else having joyful cries watching this show versus the ugly tears at every turn of TLoU!?

[Jason]

A comment and a reply from reddit:

 

Quote

I can't decide if the show is disappearing up its own ass with too much nostalgia, or if it's just a lot of Easter eggs.

 

Quote

Quote

I can't decide if the show is disappearing up its own ass with too much nostalgia, or if it's just a lot of Easter eggs.

 

On paper: it absolutely should be.

 

But in execution, it all inexplicably works so long as you pair it with the notion that this really is a genuine 'victory lap' of a final season.

 

[Captain Pickle]

8 hours ago, SoberChef said:

To echo what the Pickled Captain had to say, I too am at the point where I just want a shot of all of MY old crew together one last time.

 

Also, anyone else having joyful cries watching this show versus the ugly tears at every turn of TLoU!?

Absolutely loving the joyful cries!

[elbobo]

Hope they don't drag the rest of the mystery boxes out until the finale. At least we know what is up with Vadik and the other changelings now and that their boss is not one of them.

[SoberChef]

I did feel as though I wasn't quite fully engaged this week, maybe it's me or perhaps it was sort of spinning its wheels slightly? Let's hope the final ... what is it, 2 or 3 episodes left? Either way, let's hope it floats on home for the win!

[elbobo]

The middle act of this season was no where near as good as the first act. Hopefully the last 3 episodes will just go.

[dualhunter]

Spoiler

I wonder if instead of needing Jack's blood and/or DNA, they want him to animate his father's corpse.

 

[elbobo]

The more I think about it the less I like Vadik's origin story. Firstly I just straight up hate there being an evil torturer/scientist in Starfleet. All the main characters seems to know about Daystrom station and there are regular patrols of starfleet vessels so it seems unlikely that it is a Section 31 operation. Even if it was Section 31 it goes against the core theme of Trek in general, the shows aren't supposed to be a be a direct reflection of our currently fucked up world with a futuristic space technology coating they are supposed to be an aspirational look at what we can be as a species and society. Unquestionably a LOT of Trek has been allegories of our own time but it was almost always the villain of the week that took the "bad" role of our current time character in the story. It seems more and more with newer Trek that only our hero characters have the strong moral compass that we should be aspiring too and everyone else are grey at best.

 

Getting past morality issue it is just a straight up dumb plan on Starfleet's part. OK you take these sentient creatures, do horrific experiments on them and change them into the perfect spies that can blend into any culture or situation, the second you drop them off on the planet you want them to spy on they are just going to disappear into crowd never to be seen or heard from again, they are perfect spies you are never going to be able to find them. Did Starfleet just expect the changelings to come running back to the people that tortured and mutilated them for years?

[Jason]

2 hours ago, elbobo said:

The more I think about it the less I like Vadik's origin story. Firstly I just straight up hate there being an evil torturer/scientist in Starfleet. All the main characters seems to know about Daystrom station and there are regular patrols of starfleet vessels so it seems unlikely that it is a Section 31 operation. Even if it was Section 31 it goes against the core theme of Trek in general, the shows aren't supposed to be a be a direct reflection of our currently fucked up world with a futuristic space technology coating they are supposed to be an aspirational look at what we can be as a species and society. Unquestionably a LOT of Trek has been allegories of our own time but it was almost always the villain of the week that took the "bad" role of our current time character in the story. It seems more and more with newer Trek that only our hero characters have the strong moral compass that we should be aspiring too and everyone else are grey at best.

 

Getting past morality issue it is just a straight up dumb plan on Starfleet's part. OK you take these sentient creatures, do horrific experiments on them and change them into the perfect spies that can blend into any culture or situation, the second you drop them off on the planet you want them to spy on they are just going to disappear into crowd never to be seen or heard from again, they are perfect spies you are never going to be able to find them. Did Starfleet just expect the changelings to come running back to the people that tortured and mutilated them for years?

 

Vadic's origin story fits with the changeling genocide virus they did in DS9.

[Chairslinger]

On 4/1/2023 at 10:17 AM, elbobo said:

The more I think about it the less I like Vadik's origin story. Firstly I just straight up hate there being an evil torturer/scientist in Starfleet. All the main characters seems to know about Daystrom station and there are regular patrols of starfleet vessels so it seems unlikely that it is a Section 31 operation. Even if it was Section 31 it goes against the core theme of Trek in general, the shows aren't supposed to be a be a direct reflection of our currently fucked up world with a futuristic space technology coating they are supposed to be an aspirational look at what we can be as a species and society. Unquestionably a LOT of Trek has been allegories of our own time but it was almost always the villain of the week that took the "bad" role of our current time character in the story. It seems more and more with newer Trek that only our hero characters have the strong moral compass that we should be aspiring too and everyone else are grey at best.

 

Getting past morality issue it is just a straight up dumb plan on Starfleet's part. OK you take these sentient creatures, do horrific experiments on them and change them into the perfect spies that can blend into any culture or situation, the second you drop them off on the planet you want them to spy on they are just going to disappear into crowd never to be seen or heard from again, they are perfect spies you are never going to be able to find them. Did Starfleet just expect the changelings to come running back to the people that tortured and mutilated them for years?

 

On 4/1/2023 at 12:25 PM, Jason said:

 

Vadic's origin story fits with the changeling genocide virus they did in DS9.

 

 

As Jason said, keep in mind that was a flashback to the Dominion War. Not only did Section 31 create the virus during the war we have examples of complicit, otherwise good Starfleet officers looking the other way during that time. Starfleet intelligence, Starfleet medical, and even Admiral Ross were all shown turning a blind eye to what they were doing. And it certainly has reflections in the real world. Britain started the war with the ideal of precision bombing but once their airforce was cut to tatters in daylight raids they switched to nighttime carpet bombing. When the United States later entered the war they basically went through the exact same process as Britain had before them. When millions of your own people are dying, what is and is not acceptable to do to the other side gets pretty malleable. In the Pale Moonlight, Battle of AR-557, this very question was a big part of the last 2 or 3 seasons of DS9.

 

On that point, I liked the storyline. I am not sure if it was intentional, but as we know the TOS with the Klingons and then TNG with the Romulans were meant to mirror the Cold War as it was going on at the time. DS9 decided to borrow from WWII for the Dominion War. What this storyline on Picard kind of reminded me of was having parallels to the United States bringing in Nazi scientists after the war for Operation Paperclip.

 

As for the Changling double agent, I am kind of wondering if there is more to it than that. What if what we are seeing is the shrapnel from experimentation to imbue Section 31 agents(solids) WITH the ability to shapeshit, not the other way around.

[Chairslinger]

So looking back over the season, 1-4 is kind of an arc in itself and then 5 and 6 feel almost like a two parter. I am thinking that 7 and 8 will be something of a self contained story of Vadic and Picard dueling over who gets Jack/getting the information they need.

 

Meaning that I suspect that this weeks episode will wrap with Vadic(mostly?) dealt with, the true big bad being exposed, and the crew getting the info they need. This will lead to 9 and 10 which will be the big, two part finale which will largely take place at Frontier Day. Judging from early trailers and teasers we have seen virtually nothing from those last two episodes. Considering that Frontier Day is said to bring together every ship in the fleet, and how things have went so far this season, I would buckle up for a possible metric shit ton of call backs and/or cameos. Literally almost anyone from TNG/DS9/Voy might show up.

 

Also, very slight spoiler here......

 

Spoiler

It is my understanding that Tim Russ let it slip that his part is not done yet. He is in at least one more episode.

 

 

With Tuvok, Seven, and Ro's comment....there's no way Janeway doesn't show up, right? That would be the biggest dry fire of a Checkov's gun in television history if they don't pull the trigger on that one.

 

It feels like past seasons of Trek have been really stingy about their use of legacy Trek references and characters. Almost like are scared to "use up" the material. I think Matalas is taking a more "you got to spend money to make money" approach that is working out pretty damn well. Using the references doesn't have to be a zero sum game if you do it right. By placing Shaw opposite Picard and Riker you make a new star. By putting Crash alongside Picard and LaForge you make a new star with her. The reason I say this is because I think some show runners would look at Picard's blowout 3rd season and be like, "Boy, where do with go from there? How do you top that?". Matalas just seems excited like, "You don't think I can top that? Watch me".

 

Not sure if I said this already, but Matalas seems to be going in the direction I want for Trek. Whether it's a Captain Worf show, a Titan show, Tales of the Dominion War or whatever the next show should be something of a spiritual successor 4th season of Picard. The most important thing is, for the love of God, to stop retreating back to setting shows in Kirk's time. Give me a show that carry's on into the 25th century. So much of Trek is set in that time with so many of it's characters just....out there doing shit we don't know anything about that it is near criminal that all we have gotten from it is Picard season 3(which has been great so far) and two prior seasons that took a razor focused approach to their own standalone storylines that told us almost nothing about the current status of the outside "world". How is the Klingon Empire doing after the War? Dunno. How did the Borg respond to Janeway flipping them the double bird on the way out of the Delta Quadrant? Dunno. For that matter, how is the Voyager crew doing? Did Ben ever come back? Did Bajor join the Federation? DON'T FUCKING KNOW because we need 2 or 3 more god damn series trying to be more like Kirk, apparently!

[Jason]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:10 AM, Chairslinger said:

As Jason said, keep in mind that was a flashback to the Dominion War. Not only did Section 31 create the virus during the war we have examples of complicit, otherwise good Starfleet officers looking the other way during that time. Starfleet intelligence, Starfleet medical, and even Admiral Ross were all shown turning a blind eye to what they were doing. And it certainly has reflections in the real world. Britain started the war with the ideal of precision bombing but once their airforce was cut to tatters in daylight raids they switched to nighttime carpet bombing. When the United States later entered the war they basically went through the exact same process as Britain had before them. When millions of your own people are dying, what is and is not acceptable to do to the other side gets pretty malleable. In the Pale Moonlight, Battle of AR-557, this very question was a big part of the last 2 or 3 seasons of DS9.

 

On that point, I liked the storyline. I am not sure if it was intentional, but as we know the TOS with the Klingons and then TNG with the Romulans were meant to mirror the Cold War as it was going on at the time. DS9 decided to borrow from WWII for the Dominion War. What this storyline on Picard kind of reminded me of was having parallels to the United States bringing in Nazi scientists after the war for Operation Paperclip.

 

As for the Changling double agent, I am kind of wondering if there is more to it than that. What if what we are seeing is the shrapnel from experimentation to imbue Section 31 agents(solids) WITH the ability to shapeshit, not the other way around.

 

The main thing that bothers me with the Vadic backstory is that it seemed like more of the "Section 31 is an official organization where the members run around with distinctive black badges" stuff we've gotten since Discovery (or apparently the JJ movies? I don't remember much about them at this point though). In Discovery it can at least be handwaved away that they were forced underground after how out of control they were portrayed as getting in Discovery, but showing this as being in the Dominion War timeframe...in Deep Space Nine they were very explicitly a shadow organization nobody was sure was actually real.

 

I guess Ross turning a blind eye with the genocide virus means they must have had SOME kind of presence SOME high level people knew about, but an entire Section 31 space station doesn't exactly scream "shadow organization".

[elbobo]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

The main thing that bothers me with the Vadic backstory is that it seemed like more of the "Section 31 is an official organization where the members run around with distinctive black badges" stuff we've gotten since Discovery (or apparently the JJ movies? I don't remember much about them at this point though). In Discovery it can at least be handwaved away that they were forced underground after how out of control they were portrayed as getting in Discovery, but showing this as being in the Dominion War timeframe...in Deep Space Nine they were very explicitly a shadow organization nobody was sure was actually real.

 

I guess Ross turning a blind eye with the genocide virus means they must have had SOME kind of presence SOME high level people knew about, but an entire Section 31 space station doesn't exactly scream "shadow organization".

 

not only S31 super clandestine in DS9 it felt like the tiniest thing out there, like if some show runner in the 90s said that S31 was Sloan and 10 other operatives I would have believed it

[Chairslinger]

Man, I just thought of a great way that the last two episodes could bring together almost all of the Legacy captains.

 

I already mentioned(and it seems pretty self-evident) why Janeway is just about the most obvious cameo ever at this point. But now that it's looking increasingly likely that whatever is going on with Jack is the Pah-Wraiths that means Sisko is on the table, as well.

 

If you do that, then you already have most of them involved(especially if you count the Kirk reference from earlier in the season).

 

My favorite though is how you could include Archer. It would be perfect, and it would be one more chance for Matalas to put right the sins of past Trek. Maybe after most of the action is done and the crew is "celebrating" you cap off Frontier Day by finally showing Archer's speech at the signing of the Federation charter!

 

That would be a bit of a redemption for two of the biggest flaws of These Are the Voyages. Which were that they hyped up, but then never showed the speech. But also that they allowed TNG characters to dominate Enterprise's finale. This time, give Enterprise a small voice in TNG's finale.

 

One of the best pound for pound cameos in Star Trek history was the short video in Broken Bow when Zephram Cochrane broke ground on the Warp 5 facility.......

 

 

 

 

As TNG is set about 100 years after Kirk, and Kirk about 100 years after Archer, and Archer about 100 years after the first warp flight it really brought the story full circle. They could do the same thing, kind of in reverse by having Archer's speech at Frontier Day. The finale of both TNG and the latest show set in the timeline. And if Janeway, Picard, and Sisko are there along with the TNG crew, some of Voyager, and maybe even some of DS9 what a great send off to have Archer give a speech about the ideals of the Federation and why it was formed.

 

When they made These Are The Voyages they defended the decision by saying they felt it wasn't just a send off to Enterprise, but for all the shows that had been running for nearly 20 years straight at that point. An idea not entirely without merit, but executed terribly. They have the opportunity with Picard to do it right. Bring together those shows in a more organic way this time and actually send them all off in a way that respects all of them.

 

Now that I have thought of this, I really hope they do it or something similar.

[Jason]

Shamelessly stolen from reddit: "All these years, Lore just needed some pussy." 

[SoberChef]

Also, serious props to a Tasha Yar appearance!

[elbobo]

if they don't reveal EVERYTHING about Jack in the first 5 minutes next week I am going to be pissed, this is dragging out way to long.

 

This episode was an improvement over the last couple of weeks, gave all the characters something to do, loved seeing the gang around the conference table again.

 

Stabbing Changelings is very very dumb even if they are mutated Changelings, we saw one get shot in the head last week and pop back up 2 seconds later.