Former Cigna exec goes after Dems parroting "choice" talking points defending status quo

[SaysWho?]

 

 

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

[CitizenVectron]

This is totally true, and anyone who repeats the talking point is dumb.

 

When my gf broke her ankle in a different city a few months ago we didn't even think about where to go, we just headed to the closest hospital. Then when given the option of waiting a day there for surgery or driving home for surgery in our city, we opted for the latter. Then we chose the hospital closest to where we live. At no point were we ever guided into any decision, except that they strongly recommended she have surgery to repair the three broken bones, rather than letting it heal on its own (obviously). In the end, she got:

 

• ER care at a Children's hospital
• Ortho inspection/X-ray at same hospital, and splint/cast
• Ortho inspection/second X-ray at closer hospital
• Surgery and follow-up physical rehab (13 screws and a plate)
• Two more X-rays to monitor healing
• Airboot and crutches

 

In the end, all she had to pay for was...$100 for the airboot, $95 of which is covered by our work benefit plans. Theoretically the first hospital could have charged her for the crutches as well, but they opted not to. 

 

I will not accept any argument that we would have fared better in the American system under the same circumstances and also retained the same level of flexibility and choice.

[Firewithin]

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

15 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

This is totally true, and anyone who repeats the talking point is dumb.

 

When my gf broke her ankle in a different city a few months ago we didn't even think about where to go, we just headed to the closest hospital. Then when given the option of waiting a day there for surgery or driving home for surgery in our city, we opted for the latter. Then we chose the hospital closest to where we live. At no point were we ever guided into any decision, except that they strongly recommended she have surgery to repair the three broken bones, rather than letting it heal on its own (obviously). In the end, she got:

 

• ER care at a Children's hospital
• Ortho inspection/X-ray at same hospital, and splint/cast
• Ortho inspection/second X-ray at closer hospital
• Surgery and follow-up physical rehab (13 screws and a plate)
• Two more X-rays to monitor healing
• Airboot and crutches

 

In the end, all she had to pay for was...$100 for the airboot, $95 of which is covered by our work benefit plans. Theoretically the first hospital could have charged her for the crutches as well, but they opted not to. 

 

I will not accept any argument that we would have fared better in the American system under the same circumstances and also retained the same level of flexibility and choice.

I took my daughter to the ER after calling my insurance nurse hotline, who suggested i do so as a precaution after my daughter (2 1/2 at the time) fell and hit her head on the corner of a wall and started getting a bloody nose.

 

We go in, sit around for a few hours for observation and get an x-ray (very difficult to get a 2 1/2 year old to stand still for an x-ray). Total cost: $2300. After insurance adjustments I'm still paying off nearly $1900 from my $4500 yearly family deductible (going up to $4900 next year) and $7500 (going up to $7900 next year) in-network yearly out of pocket maximum. All of this resets on Jan 1.

 

If we have an incident over the holidays while out of state I'd be screwed because insurance doesn't have in network providers where we're going. And Lord forbid something happen and we're in the hospital over Dec 31/Jan 1, or they fuck up the paperwork and i get something mixed up there. We'd be screwed.

 

But this is fine. Nothing major needs to change here.

[CitizenVectron]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I took my daughter to the ER after calling my insurance nurse hotline, who suggested i do so as a precaution after my daughter (2 1/2 at the time) fell and hit her head on the corner of a wall and started getting a bloody nose.

 

We go in, sit around for a few hours for observation and get an x-ray (very difficult to get a 2 1/2 year old to stand still for an x-ray). Total cost: $2300. After insurance adjustments I'm still paying off nearly $1900 from my $4500 yearly family deductible (going up to $4900 next year) and $7500 (going up to $7900 next year) in-network yearly out of pocket maximum. All of this resets on Jan 1.

 

If we have an incident over the holidays while out of state I'd be screwed because insurance doesn't have in network providers where we're going. And Lord forbid something happen and we're in the hospital over Dec 31/Jan 1, or they fuck up the paperwork and i get something mixed up there. We'd be screwed.

 

But this is fine. Nothing major needs to change here.

 

Wow, I'm really sorry about that

 

I'm not someone who defends the Canadian healthcare system as perfect, it's far from it (I've waited for 4+ hours in ER before for broken bones, etc), but overall the bad parts are less bad than the bad parts of the American system, imo. 

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Wow, I'm really sorry about that

 

I'm not someone who defends the Canadian healthcare system as perfect, it's far from it (I've waited for 4+ hours in ER before for broken bones, etc), but overall the bad parts are less bad than the bad parts of the American system, imo. 

 

4 hour wait at the ER with a broken bone? Yeah, that sounds like a normal wait time for any ER I've ever been in. Hell, when my son needed surgery when he was just a month old, I got stuck waiting hours in the ER of one hospital to them be told they couldn't help me. They transferred him to another hospital, in an ambulance ride that wasn't covered by insurance, and we had to wait at that children's hospital ER for another couple of hours.

 

The idea that we don't deal with huge wait times in the US is ridiculous.

[Dodger]

We have to admit that the ACA is still basically shit. Sure it helped some people out, the pre-existing conditions thing helped out millions. But other than that it's still mostly shit. So anybody running on restoring ACA as their big healthcare plan, it ain't enough. I don't know how we have to do it, but the system here is broken and bandaids won't fix it. 

 

What good does "doctor choice" do you if you can't afford to see the fucker anyway. Maybe "choice" is a dog whistle so white people don't have to go see some Indian doctor with 15 letters in his last name. But shit's fucked. 

 

By the way, Xrays are super cheap now, so I'd be negotiating the shit out of that bill. Like a basic xray should only be like $100, $200 tops. 

[CitizenVectron]

Just now, Ghost_MH said:

 

4 hour wait at the ER with a broken bone? Yeah, that sounds like a normal wait time for any ER I've ever been in. Hell, when my son needed surgery when he was just a month old, I got stuck waiting hours in the ER of one hospital to them be told they couldn't help me. They transferred him to another hospital, in an ambulance ride that wasn't covered by insurance, and we had to wait at that children's hospital ER for another couple of hours.

 

The idea that we don't deal with huge wait times in the US is ridiculous.

 

I think what usually happens is that people compare the best-case in one country with the worst-case in another, like in so many situations. Overall though, I don't think people put enough weight into the factthat people in Canada (and other similar-system countries) simply have less stress due to our social systems, and are therefore more economically free as a result. Canada has more social mobility than the US now thanks to this. I went back to school and changed careers without once thinking about my healthcare. People in the US can't generally do that. That's only a single example, of course, but an illustrative one. It gives labour more power over capital, and I'm sure is one of the reasons that wealth inequality isn't as bad in universal-coverage nations as it is in the US.

[Iculus]

One of my old bosses delivered his baby at home (they couldn't make it to the hospital in time). They recommended that they take an ambulance to the hospital. He did all of the work and received a $2700 bill for an Uber with lights on top.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

15 minutes ago, Dodger said:

We have to admit that the ACA is still basically shit. Sure it helped some people out, the pre-existing conditions thing helped out millions. But other than that it's still mostly shit. So anybody running on restoring ACA as their big healthcare plan, it ain't enough. I don't know how we have to do it, but the system here is broken and bandaids won't fix it. 

 

What good does "doctor choice" do you if you can't afford to see the fucker anyway. Maybe "choice" is a dog whistle so white people don't have to go see some Indian doctor with 15 letters in his last name. But shit's fucked. 

 

By the way, Xrays are super cheap now, so I'd be negotiating the shit out of that bill. Like a basic xray should only be like $100, $200 tops. 

The actual x-ray was not the expensive part. It was somewhere in the $400 range iirc, including the few moments the Dr reviewed the images (but didn't actually talk to us)

 

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Wow, I'm really sorry about that

 

I'm not someone who defends the Canadian healthcare system as perfect, it's far from it (I've waited for 4+ hours in ER before for broken bones, etc), but overall the bad parts are less bad than the bad parts of the American system, imo. 

I'm really fortunate that i now have a health savings account with a couple grand in it (and my wife and i make enough money to be able to partially fund it while still making ends meet even with student loans)

 

Had this happened with my insurance at my last company, or when i was changing jobs and had no insurance, I'd be pretty boned as an HSA was not an option at my last company, and I'd still be out a couple grand. Counting about $1400 for the ER visit, my family has paid about $3600 of our deductible this year, and ~$4700 just in premiums (not counting the employer contribution, which is about $17,500 for 2019). The best part is for 2020, as mentioned my deductible is going up, but the overall premium is decreasing! By $51 next year! But guess who is getting to save $51 next year? That's right, my employer!

 

I really need to do my extensive write up on health insurance costs, as my employer is really forthcoming with costs for all employees.

 

Bring on higher taxes for M4A and free college. This shit is stupid. 

[Dodger]

Here is another problem. I'm looking at a guys ER bill for $88,000ish.

 

Medical paid $245 for it all. This jerkwad hospital is billing out $8350 for each CT scan. This guy has a ER bill just under 90 grand and he was not admitted and was discharged home with bruises after a car accident because all of his imaging came back negative. It's all just broken everywhere. 

 

Nevermind I'm going blind. Over $15k billed for his abdomen CT, and $10k billed for his chest CT, the rest were $8776, and they are billing $775 for each xray. 

[finaljedi]

If you get in a bad enough accident to need a helicopter ambulance those bills start at around $30,000 and I’ve seen them be around $50,000 and that’s before you get to the hospital.

[Dodger]

10 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

If you get in a bad enough accident to need a helicopter ambulance those bills start at around $30,000 and I’ve seen them be around $50,000 and that’s before you get to the hospital.

 

 

Yeah an airlift is like 50 grand in CA. But that's a fucking helicopter coming to get you, and while I'm sure it doesn't cost 50 grand for that to all happen, it can't be cheap to dispatch an actual helicopter to take you to the hospital. 

 

An ambulance ride is typically 2-3 grand depending on mileage. 

[CitizenVectron]

HSAs are just the most recent way to de-socialize medicine. It's even more capitalistic than work insurance plans, because at least insurance is a socialist concept (just in the private sphere)! It's like how 401k phased out actual pension plans.