Just gun stats

[Fizzzzle]

In 2020, in the United States, there were 45,222 gun related deaths

54% of those deaths were suicides. So right off the bat, if you are in possession of a gun, you are more likely to use that gun on yourself than you are to ever use that gun in self defense.

 

I'm sorry, not YOU. My bad, I shouldn't assume. You are clearly not one of THOSE people. You are the exception that would never kill yourself.

 

So how many people WERE killed in what the CDC rules as "legal prevention?" Also known as "good guys with guns?" Surely that makes a dent...

 

Ah, shit... Nope. 611. That includes cop killings, which we know is 100% justified 100% of the time.

 

Okay, but SURELY that means at least 611 people were SAVED by guns. So that's something, I guess.

 

... Oh, shit... There were over 500 deaths by gun in 2020 that were rules "accidents." So all those people would probably still be alive if guns were never around in the first place...

 

Numbers don't lie. I'm sick of people using "good guys with a gun" as an excuse. The police officers in Uvalde were allegedly good guys with guns. They didn't do shit. But hey, let's just arm all the teachers. Oh, that's right, elementary school teachers make less money than goddamn Starbucks Batista's, maybe putting them in charge of arsenals isn't ideal (how long before a teacher goes postal on their own students or kills themself with the classroom gun)

 

... But, but we'll TRAIN THEM!

 

Putting aside the fact that at least 98% of gun related deaths in America are intentional, so training people to use them properly does nothing (they seem to figure it out in their own), none of us are goddamn Rambo.

 

If you've never been in a firefight, I can almost 100% guarantee you will freeze like a deer in headlights when bullets start flying. And you're not wrong to do so. People in the military go through a SHITLOAD of training to not do that, and even then it doesn't work sometimes. Military combat training involves like actual torture to see if you'll break under stress. There are plenty of guys in the infantry who have gone through more training than any teacher will ever face who go to pieces in their first combat experience. And that's no shame on them.

 

... Sorry, just a rant. Don't fucking arm teachers. Life isn't an action movie.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

n 2020, in the United States, there were 45,222 gun related deaths

54% of those deaths were suicides. So right off the bat, if you are in possession of a gun, you are more likely to use that gun on yourself than you are to ever use that gun in self defense.

That is not what that stat suggests  A death is not the only outcome of a defensive use of a firearm.

[LazyPiranha]

37 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

That is not what that stat suggests  A death is not the only outcome of a defensive use of a firearm.

To be fair, not every attempt at suicide ends in a death either.  

[Guest]

Just now, LazyPiranha said:

To be fair, not every attempt at suicide ends in a death either.  

Sure, there is some non-zero number of failed gun suicide attempts.

[5timechamp]

I have no doubt that the data is accurate… but in the land of Guns, God, Family, and Country it is expected guns will always be over our heads… gotta legislate as always and  hope to keep chipping away at all these damn loop holes and to add accountability laws to owners… its Manifest Destiny for this country

[mclumber1]

I've said it before, but I think one of the reasons why California has a lower gun suicide rate than its neighbors is due to the 10 day waiting period for gun purchases.  At least in my mind, a waiting period has a positive correlation to a reduction in gun suicide attempts.  

 

But if you already own one or more guns, then the 10 day waiting period is largely ineffective.  If we want to have a reduction in gun suicides, then a mandatory waiting period for a first gun purchase makes sense! But beyond that, it's just window dressing. 

[TwinIon]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

I've said it before, but I think one of the reasons why California has a lower gun suicide rate than its neighbors is due to the 10 day waiting period for gun purchases.  At least in my mind, a waiting period has a positive correlation to a reduction in gun suicide attempts.  

 

But if you already own one or more guns, then the 10 day waiting period is largely ineffective.  If we want to have a reduction in gun suicides, then a mandatory waiting period for a first gun purchase makes sense! But beyond that, it's just window dressing. 

The thing that I keep coming back to is the idea that adding friction to the system will reduce the number of guns out there. There's nuance to any given part of the process that can be picked apart as useless, but for someone like myself, that would like to see fewer guns out in the world, I'll take any amount of added friction as a small win. Some non-zero amount of bad outcomes will probably be avoided because of that waiting period, so why not.

 

The GOP loves to make arguments about how each little roadblock won't make any difference when it comes to guns, but seem perfectly happy to add every possible obstacle to receiving money for food or medical care. The latter is because they know very well the cumulative power of bureaucratic friction to affect outcomes. Make people jump through enough hoops, and you'll have fewer people that make it through to the end. When dealing with large numbers of people, it's only natural. I don't think gun buyers in general, the suicidal, or even criminals are unnaturally well motivated. Add more friction to the system and fewer of those people will have guns.

[Zaku3]

Ya I wouldn't mind collecting historical firearms but I don't think it's wise. Even with legal weed in NJ.

 

[mclumber1]

29 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

Ya I wouldn't mind collecting historical firearms but I don't think it's wise. Even with legal weed in NJ.

 

 

FYI it is federally illegal to be a user of marijuana (regardless of state law) and own firearms.  Hopefully that changes in the near future.

[Kal-El814]

7 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

FYI it is federally illegal to be a user of marijuana (regardless of state law) and own firearms.  Hopefully that changes in the near future.

 

I too hope gun ownership is federally banned.

[Fizzzzle]

7 hours ago, sblfilms said:

That is not what that stat suggests  A death is not the only outcome of a defensive use of a firearm.

I mean, I am stretching definitions, and you could argue that the most effective gun is one you never have to fire, but on the other hand, if the entire purpose of a gun is to shoot people, and a majority of lethal gunshots are self-inflicted, then yes, if you own a gun and ever fire it outside of a range, the odds are it will be to blow your own brains out, not in self defense.

 

I'm also conveniently igoring that self-inflicted gunshots are probably more lethal as you're not firing at a moving target, but still.

[marioandsonic]

Your first paragraph is why I will never own a gun.