SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said: They've already crossed the border into the Egypt. how dare you jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Anyone who’d like to know more about what kick started this nonsense (in general, not so-much the current Hamas-Israel conflict), and why the British (and partly the French) suck so badly: It’s really worth the 52minutes of your time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Netanyahu has sidestepped accountability for failing to prevent Hamas attack, instead blaming others APNEWS.COM A growing list of Israeli officials have accepted responsibility for failing to prevent Hamas’ brutal attack on Israeli communities. Quote A growing list of Israeli officials have accepted responsibility for failing to prevent Hamas’ brutal attack on Israeli communities during the Oct. 7 incursion that triggered the current Israel-Hamas war. Conspicuously absent from that roll call is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Following the horrific assault, which saw the deadliest day for Israelis since the country was established 75 years ago, Netanyahu has repeatedly sidestepped accountability. He has instead blamed others, in what critics say shows a leader thinking more about his own political survival than soothing and steering a traumatized nation. “Netanyahu is fighting a personal battle of survival and that takes precedence over fighting Israel’s war against Hamas,” said Netanyahu biographer and journalist Anshel Pfeffer. “As part of that battle, he’s prepared to malign those who are now commanding Israel’s army and intelligence services.” Quote Israel’s top security brass, including the military chief of staff, the defense minister and the head of the domestic security agency Shin Bet, came forward and accepted responsibility for the blunder in the days after the attack. Netanyahu, however, has not taken outright responsibility for the missteps that led up the horrific attack, despite serving as prime minister for 13 of the past 14 years. He says there will be time for investigations — after the war. “This debacle will be investigated. Everyone will have to give answers, including me,” Netanyahu said, two and half weeks after the attack. But he has brushed off criticism and rejected suggestions that he should resign. Quote But the biggest uproar came over the weekend, when in a late night tweet, Netanyahu pointedly blamed his security chiefs for the debacle, saying he never received any warning from them about Hamas’ intentions and that, on the contrary, he was guided by their advice that Hamas was deterred. Netanyahu’s new wartime governing partner slammed it. “During war, leadership must act responsibly,” Benny Gantz, a former military chief of staff, posted on X, formerly Twitter, calling on Netanyahu to take back his words. Netanyahu deleted the tweet and later apologized, saying it “should not have been said.” But critics say the damage has been done. Idit Shafran Gittleman, a senior researcher at Israel’s Institute for National Security Studies, said the tweet came at a time when faith in Israel’s security services is at a nadir. “There is harm to the security brass but also harm to the faith of soldiers on the ground,” who see their prime minister focused on things other than winning the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Netanyahu has sidestepped accountability for failing to prevent Hamas attack, instead blaming others APNEWS.COM A growing list of Israeli officials have accepted responsibility for failing to prevent Hamas’ brutal attack on Israeli communities. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 What Palestinians Really Think of Hamas WWW.FOREIGNAFFAIRS.COM Before the war, Gaza’s leaders were deeply unpopular—but an Israeli crackdown could change that. The poll was conducted between September 28 and October 8. In fact the Gaza interviews completed Oct 6. Overall 67% Gazans had very little confidence in their Hamas-led government. Only 29 percent of Gazans expressed either "a great deal" or "quite a lot" of trust in their government. Just 27% of respondents selected Hamas as their preferred party, slightly less than the proportion who favored Fatah (30 percent), the party that is led by Abbas and that governs the West Bank. Hamas's popularity in Gaza has slipped as well, falling from 34 percent support in the 2021 survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Video: Israeli Strike Hits Jabaliya Neighborhood in Gaza, Home to Refugee Camp - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM The Times analyzed satellite imagery and social media posts of the aftermath. Quote A Times analysis of satellite imagery and social media videos shows that an airstrike Israel said targeted a senior leader of Hamas on Tuesday had destroyed a densely populated area in the Jabaliya neighborhood, which is home to the largest refugee camp in Gaza. The medical director of a nearby hospital reported hundreds of injured people and dozens killed. The scale of the destruction raises questions about whether the civilian toll is proportionate with the Israeli military's stated military objectives. Videos and images verified by The Times of the strike's aftermath show civilians, including children, being pulled from the rubble and carried away. Some appear lifeless. "Dead bodies are everywhere," said Mahmoud Abusalama, a local photographer at the scene who was posting to his Instagram channel. "Everyone is looking for their family." A Facebook livestream showed victims from the attack being treated at a nearby hospital. "We have to choose who we treat because we cannot treat everyone," a doctor says. Quote The Times's assessment of the damage shows multiple large buildings flattened. As of 2023, there were more than 116,000 people registered at the refugee camp, which covers an area of only 1.4 square kilometers. The Jabaliya camp is in northern Gaza, an area for which the Israeli military has issued evacuation orders. "Giving warning does not absolve parties from the requirement to protect civilians," said Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director for Human Rights Watch. "Civilians who do not evacuate" he added, must still be protected. Marc Garlasco, a military adviser for PAX Protection of Civilians, a Dutch program affiliated with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in the Netherlands, told The Times that the craters at the scene were consistent with the damage caused by Joint Direct Attack Munitions, or JDAMs, used by the Israeli military. These munition kits turn unguided bombs into precision, GPS-guided weapons. Israeli strikes on Gaza refugee camp offer glimpse of war’s destruction - The Washington Post WWW.WASHINGTONPOST.COM The strikes on Jabalya show the toll of Israel’s relentless air war and the grave dangers facing civilians as ground forces move deeper into the enclave. Quote The strike on Jabalya offers a glimpse of the destruction wrought across Gaza by Israel's relentless air war, and the grave dangers facing civilians as Israeli ground forces move deeper into the enclave. At least 8,796 Gazans have been killed since the start of the conflict, according to Gaza's Health Ministry, and 22,219 wounded. By geolocating the edges of the destruction and comparing it with satellite imagery, The Post determined that the scale of the damage spanned roughly 50,000 square feet — nearly the size of a football field — and that the strike toppled or scarred more than a dozen buildings. Debris from the explosion appears to have blackened rooftops in multiple directions. Israel's military said the strike — the first of three to hit the densely populated camp in just over 24 hours — targeted and killed a senior Hamas commander, Ibrahim Biari, involved in coordinating the group's attack on southern Israel on Oct. 7, when militants killed more than 1,400 people and took more than 230 hostages. Israel Defense Forces spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Wednesday that other militants were killed alongside Biari, but he did not provide a number. Hamas spokesperson Ali Barakeh told The Post on Wednesday that Biari was "well" and was not at the site of the attack. "The way [Hamas] builds their infrastructure we have no other way," Hagari said, claiming the collapse of Hamas tunnels contributed to the high death toll. "We are working according to international law." Hagari was unable to provide a count for the number of civilians killed, saying an assessment was still underway. Quote The dead and wounded from Jabalya overwhelmed hospitals on the brink of shutting down and rescue teams already struggling with the vastness of the destruction. Into the evening, residents tried to dig people out from smoldering piles of crumbled cement, rebar and wood. At the hospitals, bloodied bodies, brought in on mattresses and improvised stretchers, filled any available space on the floor. The beds were already full. Rows of corpses wrapped in white shrouds were piled up out front. Many rescue workers were unable to reach the site because of shortages of fuel and equipment, said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesperson for the Gaza's Civil Defense emergency services. "An entire residential neighborhood was targeted," Bassal said. "No one who was there came out unscathed. ... Even if there was anyone affiliated with Hamas, would it make sense for them to be dealt with like this?" Quote Israel has repeatedly warned Gazans to leave the north and head south to protect themselves as ground operations expand. But Palestinians in the north have told The Post they lack the means to relocate, and have nowhere to stay in the south. Some of those who have evacuated have been killed while fleeing, or have died in Israeli strikes on the south — in what is meant to be a safe zone. Hospitals are not always a refuge either. Over the weekend, strikes near Gaza's Indonesian hospital — which treated many of the victims of Tuesday's attack — caused "severe damage," according to a spokesman for the Gaza Health Ministry. In a video posted on social media and geolocated by The Post, dust clouds are seen outside the hospital; people nearby are wiping their eyes and covering their mouths. Quote Marwan Sultan, the director of the Indonesian hospital, told The Post that his staff received at least 110 people who were killed and more than 300 who were wounded after the first attack. Later that night, another Israeli strike hit a different part of the camp, killing at least 20 people from the same family, according to Sultan. On Wednesday, a third Israeli strike hit the Fallujah neighborhood of Jabalya, wounding dozens, Sultan said, adding that he expected the casualty count to rise. "We are still receiving more casualties, including amputees and [people with] internal bleeding in the brain," he said in a phone interview. "Unfortunately, after a few hours we will have to stop working in the operating rooms," he said, because of fuel shortages. There are still "dozens under the rubble," he added. 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Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Biden calls for ‘pause’ in Israel-Hamas war during Minnesota event | Joe Biden | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM President responds to call from a rabbi in the crowd who urged him to call for a ceasefire Quote Joe Biden called for a “pause” in the Israel-Hamas war on Wednesday, in response to a call from the crowd during remarks in Minneapolis. A rabbi, who later identified herself as Jessica Rosenberg, called out: “Mr President, if you care about Jewish people, as a rabbi, I need you to call for a ceasefire.” Biden said: “I think we need a pause. A pause means giv[ing] time to get the prisoners out.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Israeli army says Gaza City completely encircled WWW.BBC.COM The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says more than 9,000 Palestinians have been killed. Quote Israeli forces have encircled the Hamas stronghold of Gaza City, Israel's military says, as it continues its assault on the Gaza Strip. The Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) said soldiers were engaged in close quarters combat with Hamas fighters staging hit and run attacks from tunnels. The UN said four of its schools being used as shelters had been damaged and warned water shortages were worsening. The Hamas-run health ministry says over 9,000 Palestinians have been killed. On Thursday the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said four of its schools being used as shelters hade been damaged in less than 24 hours. At least 20 people were reportedly killed at a school in the Jabalia refugee camp, UNRWA said, while a child was reportedly killed at a school-turned-shelter in the Beach refugee camp. The BBC has verified two videos from the schools. One extremely graphic video, filmed at an elementary school in the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza, shows the aftermath, first outside the main gate of the school and then in the main courtyard. At least 20 people, either dead or injured, can be seen on the ground, including men, women and children. The second video, filmed at the main courtyard of a primary school in Beach refugee camp, also in northern Gaza but near the Mediterranean coast, shows a plume of smoke rising from behind the main building of the school. Several people, including children, run for safety in the courtyard, while some residents of the camp watch from the windows above. Explosions can be heard in the background the loudest in the video, causes the crowd in the courtyard to flee in panic. Hamas authorities in Gaza blamed Israeli air strikes. The IDF has not yet commented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Things appear to be just freakin' great in that big building in Foggy Bottom. I'm sure morale is just in tip-top shape! Biden's Israel-Gaza Approach Sidelines State Department, And Officials Fear The Worst WWW.HUFFPOST.COM A task force on preventing atrocities did not meet until two weeks into the war, and officials say department leaders are telling them their expertise won't affect policy. Quote Nearly one month into Israel’s U.S.-backed military assault on the Gaza Strip, some State Department officials say their agency is being sidelined in a way that risks hurting American foreign policy, demoralizing valuable personnel and worsening the humanitarian toll of the war. Many diplomats are alarmed by Washington’s largely unrestricted approval of Israel’s conduct in the war against Hamas, which began on Oct. 7 after the Gaza-based militant group launched a brutal shock attack. So far, more than 9,000 Gazans and more than 1,400 Israelis have been killed, according to officials. Secretary of State Antony Blinken acknowledged the broad discontent within his department in a message to staff on Oct. 19, and some of his lieutenants have since held listening sessions and town hall meetings to discuss the war with department officials at both State’s headquarters in Washington and its facilities worldwide. Quote But during some of those conversations, managers have told staffers they should not expect to influence U.S. policy on Israel-Palestine regardless of their national security chops, according to five current and one recently departed State Department officials who talked to HuffPost. At a meeting on Oct. 26 for the 1,000-plus department employees focused on human rights, for example, leaders of the branch said they were unsure if even they were having any impact and offered no details on how the branch’s work affected U.S. policy, two attendees said. One recalled a top official advising staff to shift their focus away from Israel-Palestine and seek to make a difference in other parts of the world. The outreach has done little to allay the chief concern of many U.S. officials at State and other internationally focused branches of the government: that expertise and standard decision-making processes are being treated as largely irrelevant to President Joe Biden’s strategy on the war, which prioritizes support for Israel. Quote ‘Clear Change Of Center Of Gravity’ A task force on preventing atrocities ― which includes staff from State, the Pentagon and other agencies and usually meets frequently during major global crises ― did not hold its first session on the renewed Israel-Palestine fighting until Oct. 20, two weeks into the war, a U.S. official told HuffPost. Nearly 4,000 people, including more than 1,500 children, had been killed in Gaza by then and Israel had cut off the territory from water, food, fuel and electricity in a move United Nations officials described as “collective punishment.” The U.S. official said staff at other agencies repeatedly pushed the National Security Council to convene the group earlier than its previously scheduled session due to the conflict, adding that NSC officials initially claimed that calling meetings would distract from higher-level work on shielding civilians, without providing details on that work. The State Department established a task force on the Gaza war that has dedicated slots for staff from many offices, from Diplomatic Security and its Middle East bureau to the teams handling legislative and business affairs to its Europe bureau. But according to an email viewed by HuffPost, it does not have such seats for the agency’s bureau focused on rights issues ― the Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor bureau ― or its Population, Refugees and Migration bureau, which handles the U.S. relationship with the U.N. agency responsible for much of Gaza’s economy. Population, Refugees and Migration is State’s chief humanitarian bureau and the rights office is responsible for tracking matters like violations of international law. For those offices to be excluded from the team that, among other responsibilities, is tasked with drafting and circulating internal updates on Israel-Palestine across the department means State could be missing “the full story of how Israel’s bombardment and siege of Gaza and accelerating destruction of the West Bank are decimating civilian life and causing a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions,” a State Department official said. And to influential partners working with the U.S. government on the issue, it’s clear the State Department has little influence compared to its role in other major dilemmas. An official at an aid agency told HuffPost: “Over 3 weeks, I think I’ve had one substantive conversation with somebody at State and I’ve asked” for meetings. Normally, they said, the outbreak of a conflict would mean they were in “regular back-and-forth” and would have frequent substantive conversations with officials at State and the U.S. Agency for International Development, which is under State’s purview. “Meanwhile I’ve probably had six or seven conversations plus email exchanges plus two very high-level meetings at the White House. It’s a very clear change of center of gravity,” said the official, who requested anonymity to protect professional relationships. Quote Frustrated State Department officials describe disillusionment and a sense of powerlessness as they watch the U.S. pursue policies they believe will cause immense suffering in the near term and painful blowback in the future. “It feels like we are advocates on the outside or civil society banging on the doors of government and that’s not our role,” one department official said. Another blasted a “moment of silence and reflection” that State asked employees to observe on Oct. 30 to, in the department’s words, “mourn the innocent lives lost in current conflicts and stand united against terrorism and all forms of hate ― around the world and in the United States.” “These hollow moves fail to acknowledge the complicity of our decisions and policy in the relentless suffering of Gazans,” the official said. The gesture “ignores the fact that we still aren’t pushing for a cease-fire, still not asking Israel to control itself.” Quote A current official called the lack of consultation “fundamentally different” from their recent experiences working on the invasion of Ukraine and unrest in Sudan. Some officials said State’s town halls are leaving them even more exasperated as they learn about the apparent impotence of their managers. “They’re saying discussions are happening at the highest levels, aka there’s no room for inputs,” said the first current official, who has attended multiple listening sessions. “It’s diplomatically clouded language. They’re not sharing what they’re saying at those [high-level] meetings either: It’s hush-hush.” The second described particular concern about the town hall for the department’s branch on human rights. Managers, who described the branch as “State’s conscience,” indicated that they aren’t sure if they are getting through to more senior officials. “This group of people is supposed to be pushing for a cease-fire and humanitarian concerns and are doing so in every other context ... but when people asked senior folks, they said, ‘We are pushing but we have no idea what is happening to any of that information,’” the official said. The narrative from powerful State Department figures is sending a depressing signal, said another official who attended the rights branch session as well as four other meetings. “We are getting the message that we shouldn’t quit because we can make a difference from the inside… while it’s also clear that not only are working-level staff excluded from these discussions, even senior leaders at State are excluded from shaping the U.S. government response to the conflict,” the official said. Quote The aid official said one clear indication of State’s limited role is that one of its highest-profile actions since the war was deploying a new appointed special envoy for Middle East humanitarian issues, David Satterfield. The former ambassador has traveled to Israel and is focused on getting aid and civilians through Gaza’s only exit point to another country, Egypt. But his work is limited in its scope. “It seems like all of the humanitarian and diplomatic brainpower at State is being sucked up into operational discussions and not into policy discussions, which I think tracks with the output we’re seeing: an administration that’s deeply focused on the operations aspects of humanitarian access and not sufficiently focused on the policy challenges,” the official said. “The output is insufficient and myopic ― potentially myopic by design,” they continued, pointing to the U.S.’s focus on measures like how many trucks enter Gaza or how many liters of water the territory has, rather than whether Washington should challenge Israel’s siege and ground invasion of the region. Quote Inside State, officials worry the work they are doing related to Israel-Palestine is being driven by the White House focus on messaging rather than producing the strongest impact for the U.S. Last week, Biden sparked global outrage by publicly saying he does not trust the death toll reported by the Hamas-linked authorities in Gaza. HuffPost revealed that the State Department regularly referenced that toll internally without caveats, and documents viewed by HuffPost since suggest the department is still doing so, in keeping with most analysts and humanitarian organizations. But on Friday, two days after Biden’s comments, State’s Israel-Gaza task force privately asked colleagues at the department to seek out alternative sources it can cite in discussing Gazan casualties. Quote Focusing on being on-message can make it hard for officials across the administration to fully grapple with their choices at a critical moment. “Over the past weeks, as I have heard from numerous officials across both the executive and legislative branches, it has become clear to me that many senior leaders not only fully understand how Israel is currently using U.S.-provided arms in Gaza, but are even, behind closed doors, willing to acknowledge that these actions include ‘war crimes,’” Paul said. “The fact that none are willing to do so publicly not only points to a deep moral rot in our system, but reflects a lack of frank debate that is ultimately most harmful to U.S. national security and foreign policy interests,” he continued. Quote ‘You’ll Be Blacklisted’ The discord at State is stirring a reckoning that many compare to the period around the invasion of Iraq. Amid the anxiety of feeling implicated in a policy with a brutal current impact and horrifying potential long-term consequences, officials say they are also afraid of repercussions if they advocate a change in approach. Attendees at some listening sessions responded to colleagues bringing up Palestinian rights by trying to change the subject to the danger of antisemitism, one official said. “It feels like the Trump era again,” they said, noting that some staff, particularly Muslims, are censoring themselves and being subjected to attacks on social media and in right-wing outlets. Messages from some managers also indicate some views could get diplomats into trouble. Per another official, at a staff check-in at a U.S. embassy in the Persian Gulf recently, a leader said: “This is who we are: strong allies with Israel, no apologies.” Quote The alarm is especially acute among more junior personnel, who, like many younger Americans, are more sympathetic to Palestinians than older generations. “Younger members of the department ... have been particularly afraid of speaking in meetings that they would normally feel comfortable in speaking in or of voicing their opinion to senior leaders or mentors who we assume we can share our perspective with in any other conflict or crisis situation,” an official said. Considering alternative careers is challenging, they added: “There’s a real fear that if you leave because these are not the politics of a lot of Gen Z that it will be obvious why you left in this time period, that people will not vouch for you ― you’ll be blacklisted.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air_Delivery Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Is it possible for Israel to just flood their tunnels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 2, 2023 Author Share Posted November 2, 2023 47 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Things appear to be just freakin' great in that big building in Foggy Bottom. I'm sure morale is just in tip-top shape! The flip side of all those quotes being the White House has no faith in State's ability act in a manor other than a PR agency (State's job in Ukraine was to rally international support for Ukraine, which already existed). Do they have the ability to manage a situation with no good options that no one wants to do (like assembly a multi national peacekeeping force)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Air_Delivery said: Is it possible for Israel to just flood their tunnels? Maybe Tel Aviv should ask Cairo about that. As Egypt Floods Gaza Tunnels, Smugglers Fear an End to Their Trade - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM Only about 20 tunnels of 250 that once played a central role in the economy of Rafah are still operating — the worst situation smugglers can remember. This article addresses some of the logistics for such an operation: Flood the Gaza Tunnels Quote The engineering is straightforward. Egypt flooded thirty-seven cross-border tunnels in southern Gaza back in 2015 in what stands as a practical proof of concept in this location. Seawater from the Mediterranean would be pumped directly into the tunnel openings through short pipelines. While there’s little hydrological head, there is also little topographical relief to deal with in laying the pipe. Large volumes of water are pumped long distances every day, and Israeli water technology is world class. The shortest and most direct route to the tunnel entrances would be directly from the Mediterranean. This would require kinetic clearing of the construction sites and holding them for the duration of the operation to protect the temporary water transmission lines. The distance that would need to be cleared and held could be minimized on the northernmost and eastern tunnels by running a trunk line through adjacent Israeli territory and feeding water distribution lines to the tunnel entrances off that. Flooding doesn’t have to be slow. A six-by-five-foot tunnel that runs 300 miles is a huge volume to fill, but how fast it fills depends on how fast the water is pumped. Rough calculations indicate that if a single pipe were used for each of eleven tunnels, with each pipe pumping at a very conservative 100 gallons per minute, it would take about seven and a half months for all eleven tunnel networks to fill. Pumping water at ten times that rate, however, is routinely done today everywhere from wastewater treatment plants to oil field operations. Also, the tunnels wouldn’t have to be filled to capacity to generate the desired effect. The effect would begin as soon as water started to flow; by the time a tunnel has two or three feet of water it would be effectively unusable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Inflatable foam bombs in the tunnels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 I'm starting to think all this is making a President Trump a pretty sure thing. It is highlighting large rifts in the Democratic base and will demoralize a lot of voters. Trump and company will highlight the CHAOS under the Biden administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 13 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I'm starting to think all this is making a President Trump a pretty sure thing. It is highlighting large rifts in the Democratic base and will demoralize a lot of voters. Trump and company will highlight the CHAOS under the Biden administration. Foreign policy issues rarely (if ever) factor into voter decision making and I'd say that the proportion of the Democratic voter base that would be "demoralized" by the Biden administration's overtly pro-Israel approach is significantly dwarfed by those who would be genuinely pissed-off if the approach was more "balanced" in favor of the Palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 I think more people are going to blame Biden for a KFC family meal costing them $61 (don't forget taxes and a tip for the cashier) than they are going to blame him for this crisis in the middle east. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Foreign policy issues rarely (if ever) factor into voter decision making and I'd say that the proportion of the Democratic voter base that would be "demoralized" by the Biden administration's overtly pro-Israel approach is significantly dwarfed by those who would be genuinely pissed-off if the approach was more "balanced" in favor of the Palestinians. The plausible way this costs Biden the election is that there are sizable Arab-Muslim populations in states like Michigan where presidential elections are decided on extremely thin margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 28 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Foreign policy issues rarely (if ever) factor into voter decision making and I'd say that the proportion of the Democratic voter base that would be "demoralized" by the Biden administration's overtly pro-Israel approach is significantly dwarfed by those who would be genuinely pissed-off if the approach was more "balanced" in favor of the Palestinians. Absolutely Biden is better off being pro Israel. Biden is doing what he has to do given what’s happening. My point is Biden would have been better off if this wouldn’t have happened at all. I also agree that foreign policy rarely is what decides anything. I take back my previous statement, but maintain that this is not good for Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jason said: The plausible way this costs Biden the election is that there are sizable Arab-Muslim populations in states like Michigan where presidential elections are decided on extremely thin margins. This is what I was referring to, along with the far left. Some of these voters could just say fuck it and vote West. It depends on what happens over the next 12 months. Edit: Trump is going to win regardless of this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jason said: The plausible way this costs Biden the election is that there are sizable Arab-Muslim populations in states like Michigan where presidential elections are decided on extremely thin margins. Right - that is absolutely the main potential electoral fallout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Arab American support for Biden, Democrats plummets over Israel, poll shows | Reuters WWW.REUTERS.COM President Joe Biden's support among Arab Americans, who are crucial voters in battleground election states, has plunged from a comfortable majority in 2020 to just 17%, a new poll shows, amid growing... This poll shows the weakened support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Is anyone shocked that people who come from traditionally conservative cultures would eventually turn away from the progressive politics? At the same time, the Republicans can't see the forest for the trees and reject minorities because they aren't American enough for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 I mean if minority populations cut their own nose off over a foreign policy issue they can enjoy President Trump version 2.0, the revenge. Irrelevant though cause he’s going to win anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 8 hours ago, mclumber1 said: I think more people are going to blame Biden for a KFC family meal costing them $61 (don't forget taxes and a tip for the cashier) than they are going to blame him for this crisis in the middle east. Okay, I take some serious issue with this post… Who TF tips a cashier at a fast food place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 51 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Okay, I take some serious issue with this post… Who TF tips a cashier at a fast food place? I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I do. They make like $16-17+/hour here in NJ, I’m not tipping that. I’m not going to tip the person ringing me up at Best Buy either. Waiters/Waitresses/Food Delivery Drivers make like $3/hour so I tip 20-25% but I’m not tipping an actual salary unless it’s something like a haircut or big delivery (ie: guy bringing in a TV or stove or whatever). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Colleague tonight told me her partner, who works in a Synagogue, is getting nearly daily threats. Really makes our city look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Spork3245 said: They make like $16-17+/hour here in NJ, I’m not tipping that. I’m not going to tip the person ringing me up at Best Buy either. Waiters/Waitresses/Food Delivery Drivers make like $3/hour so I tip 20-25% but I’m not tipping an actual salary unless it’s something like a haircut or big delivery (ie: guy bringing in a TV or stove or whatever). If I see a tip jar or are offered the ability to add a tip to a credit card payment, I just give something - that's all. However, let's not derail this thread with this discussion, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 It sounds like Hezbollah and Iran are distancing themselves from Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: It sounds like Hezbollah and Iran are distancing themselves from Hamas. Is that what Nasrallah indicated in his widely-anticipated speech today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Is that what Nasrallah indicated in his widely-anticipated speech today? That's the analysis I'm reading on X Quote BREAKING: Hezbollah Leader Hassan Nasrallah said the Oct 7 attack was led by Hamas, and the decision was 100% Palestinian, and was done in complete secrecy, contrary to what some 'trouble makers' are claiming. Exact quote: "Absolute secrecy is what ensured the brilliant success of the October 7 operation through the factor of surprise Operation “Al-Aqsa Flood” was decided 100% Palestinian, its implementation was 100% Palestinian, and its owners hid it from everyone." This is major, Hezbollah just distanced themselves from the attack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Just now, mclumber1 said: That's the analysis I'm reading on X This is fascinating! I wonder if they say this while continuing to arm them (yes) or they see it as a lost cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Hezbollah may have "distanced" themselves from the events of October 7, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't seek to continue to apply pressure from the north. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Hezbollah may have "distanced" themselves from the events of October 7, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't seek to continue to apply pressure from the north. I believe this morning that the Israeli Defense Minster mentioned a growing concern forming in the north. I'll see if I can find the quote (it was at like 4-5am ET) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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