Gaza/Israel Update (04/02): Israeli airstrike kills foreign workers of World Central Kitchen (Chef José Andrés food aid charity)

[TUFKAK]

 

[TUFKAK]

She’s officially outbound to the US. She fought me about being put in a hotel last night so I just booked her one and sent her the information. I’ll feel much better when she’s in the US but every second brings her closer; one last layover in Europe before that happens.

 

My step mom just made me promise “take care of my girl if something happens to me” 

 

Y’all I wasn’t fucking ready for that. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

It’s not even close to that good for them. Unless something changed recently, Jordan is the only Middle Eastern country that will grant Palestinians citizenship, and others won’t even allow Palestinian refugees into work programs despite labor shortages. An undocumented person working a produce farm in the US has it better than most Palestinians in refugee camps.

 

You're absolutely correct - I was using the term "second class citizens" in the loosest, most metaphorical sense possible to describe their reduced social/political/economic status within the countries in which they find themselves as refugees.

 

You're also correct in that Jordan is the only country which offers the Palestinians a naturalization pathway to citizenship and they do constitute a demographic majority of Jordan's population, but even that has become a complicated, tenuous situation in recent years:

 

Population of Jordan

FANACK.COM

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Fanack provides an overview of the population of Jordan, including an overview of its demographics and refugee situation.

 

Quote

 

Legal position Palestinians

 

Reflecting Jordan’s history and its often troubled relations with the Palestinians (making up approximately 60 percent of Jordan’s total population), there are no less than six basic categories of persons living in the kingdom, with widely differing rights. Jordanian passports, in themselves, confer neither citizenship nor residence rights on their bearers. Citizenship is indicated by a national identification number (ID). Citizens have the right to the residence. The residence rights of the bearers of other categories of passports are indicated by different-colored cards.

 

The six categories of persons, and the documentation and rights to which they are entitled, have been summarized as follows by the Forced Migration Organization:

 

In the above table, ‘East Banker’ means natives of the territory on the eastern side of the Jordan River (the historical boundary between Transjordan and Palestine); ‘Jordanian-Palestinian of 1948’ means Palestinians (other than those originating in the Gaza Strip) who have resided in the Kingdom of Jordan (West Bank and East Bank) since the 1948 war in Palestine; ‘Jordanian-Palestinian of 1967’ refers to Palestinian-Jordanians affected by the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War, when Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel.

 

Citizenship rights

 

When disengaging from the West Bank in July 1988, Jordan at a stroke rendered its former citizens in the West Bank stateless, stripping them of their Jordanian citizenship. They were permitted to hold Jordanian passports renewable every two years (subsequently increased to five years) but these passports do not confer either Jordanian citizenship or residency rights in Jordan. They are solely for purposes of travel.

 

Essentially, since 1988 the only residents with full citizenship rights have been Jordanians, whether from the East Bank or of Palestinian origin who live permanently in Jordan (i.e. the kingdom as defined territorially in 1988). Such full citizens – who comprise the great majority of Jordanians of Palestinian origin in the kingdom – have a ‘national number’ and a family registration book, and hold 5-year passports.

 

Palestinians living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem – which were part of the kingdom until 1988 – can hold 5-year Jordanian passports for purposes of travel; while Palestinians from the Gaza Strip can hold 2-year Jordanian passports for travel purposes only. These types of passports signify neither citizenship nor a right of residence. As non-citizens of Jordan, holders of such passports, and also holders of passports issued by the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, are treated as foreigners. Procedures to be applied to foreigners are specified in Law No 24 of 1973 on Residence and Foreigners’ Affairs, as amended in 1987. This stipulates that foreigners require time-limited and renewable residence permits and that the relevant minister may ‘cancel a residence permit already granted to him [the foreigner] and order him to leave the Kingdom without explanation’.

 

The Jordanian authorities have an established record of revoking the citizenship of Palestinian-Jordanians whom they discover also to be holders of, or eligible for, passports issued by the Palestinian Authority.

 

 

Stateless Again

WWW.HRW.ORG

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This 60-page report details the arbitrary manner, with no clear basis in law, in which Jordan deprives its citizens who were originally from the West Bank of their nationality, thereby denying them basic citizenship rights such as access to education and health care.

 

Quote

 

More than half of the 6.3 million population of Jordan is of Palestinian origin-that is, from areas west of the River Jordan, including the West Bank, today's Israel, and Gaza. With the exception of persons from Gaza, the vast majority of those persons of Palestinian origin have Jordanian citizenship. However, since 1988, and especially over the past few years, the Jordanian government has been arbitrarily and without notice withdrawing Jordanian nationality from its citizens of Palestinian origin, making them stateless. For many of them this means they are again stateless Palestinians as they were before 1950.

 

Some Jordanian officials have said they are doing so in order to forestall supposed Israeli designs to colonize the West Bank, by maintaining the birthright of Palestinians to live in the West Bank. Yet the real reason may be Jordan's desire to be able to rid itself of hundreds of thousands of Jordanian citizens of Palestinian origin whom Jordan could then forcibly return to the West Bank or Israel as part of a settlement of the Palestinian refugee problem caused by the 1948 and 1967 Arab-Israeli wars. At least that appeared to be the interpretation of a high-ranking Ministry of Interior official who in July 2009 said that certain Jordanians of Palestinian origin would remain Jordanian nationals only until such time that a refugee settlement had been reached.

 

 

 

Jordan: Palestinian refugees struggle amid UNRWA funding cuts

WWW.ALJAZEERA.COM

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Descendants of Palestinian refugees from Gaza live in Jordan without citizenship or rights, relying on UN agency.

 

Quote

 

Although he was born and raised in Jordan, Ali does not have Jordanian citizenship. His ID says he is a Palestinian from the Gaza Strip, courtesy of his grandfather who fled the territory during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

 

The small, plastic card is the only remaining indicator that Ali is a “foreigner” – a label that restricts almost every aspect of his life, from his job, to the car he drives, to the nationality of his children. He studied electrical engineering but, unable to get a job in the field, he works for a medical lab in Amman conducting COVID-19 tests. He says he cannot vote, pays more than four times the amount for his driver’s licence and passport fees, and must undergo a lengthy, security approval process before he can buy an apartment.

 

“Life goes on,” the father of two told Al Jazeera. “But, you spend your whole life searching for another nationality, for a better one. For your kids. I don’t want my kids to live in the same situation I live.”

 

“If you think I’m Jordanian, give me the full citizenship,” he said. “If you think I’m Palestinian, get me back to Palestine.”

 

 

For all intents and purposes, the Palestinians are a "stateless" people with nowhere else to go.

[mclumber1]

How different is the Palestinian sub-culture compared to their Arab neighbors?  Obviously they share the same language and religion, but are Palestinians considered too foreign to fit into Egyptian or Saudi (as examples) societies? 

[TUFKAK]

But it’s Israel’s fault. Again the world failed them.

[SuperSpreader]

5 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

How different is the Palestinian sub-culture compared to their Arab neighbors?  Obviously they share the same language and religion, but are Palestinians considered too foreign to fit into Egyptian or Saudi (as examples) societies? 

 

Or Iran since they're the ones funding Hamas. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

11 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

How different is the Palestinian sub-culture compared to their Arab neighbors?  Obviously they share the same language and religion, but are Palestinians considered too foreign to fit into Egyptian or Saudi (as examples) societies? 

 

Palestinian culture is every bit as distinctive as the cultures of every other Arab society.

 

Even if the Palestinians wanted to integrate into the cultures of their Arab neighbors, exactly what are they to do when those neighbors don't want that as has been repeatedly demonstrated?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Satellite images show the scale of destruction in Gaza as Israel responds to surprise Hamas attack

WWW.CNBC.COM

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Israel is expected to launch a ground offensive on the Gaza Strip in an attempt "to make sure Hamas won't have any military capabilities."

 

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Satellite images depict the scale of the devastation in Gaza following a barrage of Israeli airstrikes in response to Hamas’ unprecedented assault.

 

U.S. space technology firm Maxar Technologies on Tuesday published a fresh batch of satellite images that show the aftermath of recent airstrikes in and around the enclosed Palestinian territory of Gaza.

 

 

Unprecedented Israeli bombardment lays waste to upscale Rimal, the beating heart of Gaza City

APNEWS.COM

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Following a night of intense bombardment, residents were struggling Tuesday to grasp the sheer scale of damage inflicted on the upscale Rimal neighborhood in central Gaza City.

 

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Collapsed buildings, mangled infrastructure, streets turned into fields of rubble.

 

Scenes of violence and destruction in the long-blockaded Gaza Strip have filled the world’s airwaves throughout four wars and countless rounds of hostilities between Israel and Hamas militants. But this conflict, Palestinians say, is different.

 

On Tuesday, following a night of intense bombardment, residents were struggling to grasp the sheer scale of damage inflicted on Gaza City’s upscale Rimal neighborhood, with its shopping malls, restaurants, residential buildings and offices belonging to aid groups and international media far from the territory’s hard-hit border towns and impoverished refugee camps.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Gaza's power plant runs out of fuel amid Israel's blockade

 

Quote

Gaza's energy ministry said Wednesday that its only power plant had run out of fuel and shut down after Israel cut off supplies of fuel, food and electricity in the wake of the bloody incursion by Hamas over the weekend.

 

Spokesman Muhammad Thait told NBC News the plant stopped working completely Wednesday afternoon after running out of fuel, and there was no alternative electricity source left in Gaza.

 

That leaves only generators to power an enclave that's home to more than 2 million people, but fuel for those generators is also in short supply.

 

[mclumber1]

I really wish there was a better way to eliminate Hamas targets compared to the methods that Israel is using.  While I have no doubt that the bombs and missiles they are using are very precise in what building they are trying to hit, the fact that they have to destroy whole buildings or even blocks of buildings means they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians too.  Sending in ground forces would result in a lot more bloodshed among IDF soldiers, so they probably wont go through with large scale incursions until many of these buildings are completely blown up. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Egypt moves to prevent exodus of Palestinians from besieged Gaza | Reuters

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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Egypt is moving to avert a mass exodus from the Gaza Strip into its Sinai Peninsula, as Israeli bombardment halted crossings at the main exit point from the Palestinian enclave on Tuesday, Gaza officials and Egyptian security sources said.

 

Quote

Egypt is moving to prevent a mass exodus from the Gaza Strip into its Sinai Peninsula, as Israeli bombardment halted crossings at the main exit point from the Palestinian enclave on Tuesday, Gaza officials and Egyptian security sources said.

 

Israel's assault on Gaza has caused alarm in Egypt, which has urged Israel to provide safe passage for civilians from the enclave rather than encouraging them to flee southwest towards Sinai, two Egyptian security sources said.

 

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said on Tuesday that the escalation in Gaza was "highly dangerous" and that Egypt was pursuing a negotiated solution to the violence with regional and international partners.

 

Egypt would not allow the issue to be settled at the expense of others, Sisi said in comments reported by state news agency MENA, an apparent reference to the risk that Palestinians could be pushed into Sinai.

 

Quote

On Monday, about 800 people left Gaza through the Rafah crossing and about 500 people entered, though the crossing was closed for the movement of goods, according to the United Nations humanitarian office.

 

North Sinai's governor met local authorities on Monday to plan for any crises resulting from events in Gaza, his office said. So far, there has been no sign of mass gatherings of Palestinians at the Rafah crossing, with only scheduled departures proceeding until Tuesday.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Meanwhile in the West Bank:

 

From Al Jazeera:

 

More details about deadly settler attack on Qusra in West Bank

 

Quote

We have more details about the wide-scale attack launched by Israeli settlers on the village of Qusra, south of Nablus.

 

According to Fuad Hassan, an activist from the village, both settlers and soldiers are firing live rounds on Palestinians.

 

The army is not allowing ambulances to reach the injured, he told Al Jazeera.

 

So far, three Palestinians have been killed and six others people have been injured:

• A 24-year-old man was hit in the abdomen with live ammunition.
• A six-year-old girl was hit in the shoulder with live ammunition.
• Three others were hit in the upper body with live ammunition.
• A Palestinian was hit in the neck and taken to Salfit hospital.

[SuperSpreader]

19 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

I really wish there was a better way to eliminate Hamas targets compared to the methods that Israel is using.  While I have no doubt that the bombs and missiles they are using are very precise in what building they are trying to hit, the fact that they have to destroy whole buildings or even blocks of buildings means they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians too.  Sending in ground forces would result in a lot more bloodshed among IDF soldiers, so they probably wont go through with large scale incursions until many of these buildings are completely blown up. 

 

Even if they were very precise why would Hamas sit in those buildings? I think Israel is destroying the economy and upper classes intentionally to destroy Hamas' ability to do anything (and as revenge for supporting Hamas in the first place). Like the article said, there will be nothing left to rebuild. 

[Subzwari1987]

42 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

But it’s Israel’s fault. Again the world failed them.

Israel is not blameless here, and you just need to look at what is happening in the West Bank to understand why shit like this continues to happen as noted above. 

[SuperSpreader]

8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Egypt moves to prevent exodus of Palestinians from besieged Gaza | Reuters

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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Egypt is moving to avert a mass exodus from the Gaza Strip into its Sinai Peninsula, as Israeli bombardment halted crossings at the main exit point from the Palestinian enclave on Tuesday, Gaza officials and Egyptian security sources said.

 

 

 

 

Egypt trying to have it both ways in those statements 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Lighting the Arch of Titus with the Israeli flag -- considering the historical event it actually commemorates -- is certainly an interesting choice.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

Egypt trying to have it both ways in those statements 

 

I wouldn't blame the Egyptians in the least if they only agreed to it if the United States put actual skin in the game by being the power to construct, operate, and police any Palestinian refugee camps established in the Sinai.

[SuperSpreader]

6 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Lighting the Arch of Titus with the Israeli flag -- considering the historical event it actually commemorates -- is certainly an interesting choice.

 

 

I'm for it! 

[Spork3245]

50 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

You're absolutely correct - I was using the term "second class citizens" in the loosest, most metaphorical sense possible to describe their reduced social/political/economic status within the countries in which they find themselves as refugees.

 

You're also correct in that Jordan is the only country which offers the Palestinians a naturalization pathway to citizenship and they do constitute a demographic majority of Jordan's population, but even that has become a complicated, tenuous situation in recent years:

 

Population of Jordan

FANACK.COM

---

Fanack provides an overview of the population of Jordan, including an overview of its demographics and refugee situation.

 

 

Stateless Again

WWW.HRW.ORG

---

This 60-page report details the arbitrary manner, with no clear basis in law, in which Jordan deprives its citizens who were originally from the West Bank of their nationality, thereby denying them basic citizenship rights such as access to education and health care.

 

 

 

Jordan: Palestinian refugees struggle amid UNRWA funding cuts

WWW.ALJAZEERA.COM

---

Descendants of Palestinian refugees from Gaza live in Jordan without citizenship or rights, relying on UN agency.

 

 

For all intents and purposes, the Palestinians are a "stateless" people with nowhere else to go.

 

I figured you already knew all this but wanted to clarify that it's not like the Palestinians have anywhere else to legitimately go.

 

47 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

How different is the Palestinian sub-culture compared to their Arab neighbors?  Obviously they share the same language and religion, but are Palestinians considered too foreign to fit into Egyptian or Saudi (as examples) societies? 

 

I remember reading/hearing about this a long time ago, but I cannot for the life of me find a source right now (the current conflict fills any search I try), so I'm not 100% sure if I'm remembering correctly so please take this with a grain of salt: one or two of the nations that initially took in Palestinian refugees expelled them after the refugees attempted to claim a "divine right" to the country that took them, or something like that - again, I don't want to spread misinformation so please grain of salt this, but I recall a reason why so few other nations take them or directly support them outside of "attack Israel". 

 

23 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

I really wish there was a better way to eliminate Hamas targets compared to the methods that Israel is using.  While I have no doubt that the bombs and missiles they are using are very precise in what building they are trying to hit, the fact that they have to destroy whole buildings or even blocks of buildings means they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians too.  Sending in ground forces would result in a lot more bloodshed among IDF soldiers, so they probably wont go through with large scale incursions until many of these buildings are completely blown up. 

 

Hamas' whole thing is to integrate themselves among civilians to cause non-combatant casualties. 

 

10 minutes ago, Subzwari1987 said:

Israel is not blameless here, and you just need to look at what is happening in the West Bank to understand why shit like this continues to happen as noted above. 

 

I don't mean to speak for @TUFKAK but I don't believe he's saying that Israel is blameless, however, the constant argument from one side is "Israel bad" and it's tiring.

[SuperSpreader]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

if the United States put actual skin in the game by being the power to construct, operate, and police any Palestinian refugee camps established in the Sinai

 

Was this an option? Why wouldn't we jump on it!? Our military industrial complex loves spending!

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, SuperSpreader said:

 

Was this an option? Why wouldn't we jump on it!? Our military industrial complex loves spending!

 

I have no idea if this option has ever been raised or even will be raised.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I remember reading/hearing about this a long time ago, but I cannot for the life of me find a source right now (the current conflict fills any search I try), so I'm not 100% sure if I'm remembering correctly so please take this with a grain of salt: one or two of the nations that initially took in Palestinian refugees expelled them after the refugees attempted to claim a "divine right" to the country that took them, or something like that - again, I don't want to spread misinformation so please grain of salt this, but I recall a reason why so few other nations take them or directly support them outside of "attack Israel". 

 

You're probably thinking of the events in Jordan in 1970 during "Black September" which led in turn to the catastrophe that was the Lebanese Civil War.

 

Black September - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

 

Lebanese Civil War - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

[SuperSpreader]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I have no idea if this option has ever been raised or even will be raised.

 

Give us the Mount! Our Christian Nationalists will love it. 

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

You're probably thinking of the events in Jordan in 1970 during "Black September".

 

Black September - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

 

It's extremely possible that's the event. Thanks for posting that, I'll brush up on it in a bit.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, mclumber1 said:

I really wish there was a better way to eliminate Hamas targets compared to the methods that Israel is using.  While I have no doubt that the bombs and missiles they are using are very precise in what building they are trying to hit, the fact that they have to destroy whole buildings or even blocks of buildings means they are taking out a lot of innocent civilians too.  Sending in ground forces would result in a lot more bloodshed among IDF soldiers, so they probably wont go through with large scale incursions until many of these buildings are completely blown up. 

 

The IDF is under no illusions that these strikes will significantly degrade Hamas military capabilities.

 

These strikes are entirely intended to render Gaza a wasteland to facilitate its depopulation.

[Littleronin]

35 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The IDF is under now illusions that these strikes will significantly degrade Hamas military capabilities.

 

These strikes are entirely intended to render Gaza a wasteland to facilitate its depopulation.

All I could think of when everything started happening was that this is the moment Israel has been hoping and waiting for. This was the excuse needed.

[mclumber1]

It certainly is convenient for Israel. And I don't mean that in a conspiratorial way. 

[TUFKAK]

1 hour ago, Subzwari1987 said:

Israel is not blameless here, and you just need to look at what is happening in the West Bank to understand why shit like this continues to happen as noted above. 

Has the idf cut off the heads of infants in their cribs? 

[TUFKAK]

53 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The IDF is under no illusions that these strikes will significantly degrade Hamas military capabilities.

 

These strikes are entirely intended to render Gaza a wasteland to facilitate its depopulation.

 

Yeah - let's not do that here on my board, shall we? - Commissar SFLUFAN

 

I can completely sympathize with the significant pain you're feeling due to the situation involving your sister, so perhaps it's best that you excuse yourself from this topic.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Has the idf cut off the heads of infants in their cribs? 

 

No, but they have crushed them under the weight of buildings collapsing from their missiles.

[ort]

Child death count since 2000...

 

2,434 Palestinian children killed by Israel

143 Israeli children killed by Hamas

 

These numbers do not include the recent attacks.

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

No, but they have crushed them under the weight of building collapsing from their missiles.

As we’ve discussed. I do not excuse Israel for their role, but they are not the primary culprits here. We all are, I’m so tired of Israel being treated as a Columbus.

 

Hamas invaded Israel, any “human” who cuts the head off a baby deserves to die, full stop end of story, these are not morally equivalent, their genes should should cease to exist.

[TUFKAK]

I’m sorry Wade 

 

im not typically like this 

 

I’ve not felt these emotions in years, it’s your board and I’m doing a good job of controlling myself. 
 

i may take another break from the board again.

[Spork3245]

9 minutes ago, ort said:

Child death count since 2000...

 

2,434 Palestinian children killed by Israeli

143 Israeli children killed by Hamas

 

These numbers do not include the recent attacks.

 

Is there any source for this other than dci-palestine.org?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

5 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

I’m sorry Wade 

 

im not typically like this 

 

I’ve not felt these emotions in years, it’s your board and I’m doing a good job of controlling myself. 
 

i may take another break from the board again.

 

I thoroughly understand and am not angry with you at all, far from it!

 

I do think that for the sake of your mental health that you should take a break from thr thread and concentrate on your family.