Television Westworld - Season 4 Thread

[SoberChef]

 

[SoberChef]

Arriving 6.26.22

[Greatoneshere]

I'll be watching, though the first half of season 3 was significantly better than the second half, which felt rushed and small for stakes that seemed much larger. Hopefully season 4 can rectify that. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Nah - I'm good

 

[Greatoneshere]

I think they've said they always had a 5 season plan for the show if it could get there, I wonder if it will, since renewals have been tenuous after season 2 really threw off audiences. It seems things have changed if there ever was a five season (or six season) plan:

 

Westworld Showrunners Debunk Rumors of Six Season Plan for Series

COMICBOOK.COM

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Westworld's third season came to a close earlier this week, but it seems like the HBO series still [...]

 

[Brick]

 

[Greatoneshere]

Episode 1 of season 4 dropped this past Sunday, and while watching a season 3 recap on Youtube was needed, it was a great season opener. The seven year time jump does wonders for pushing the narrative of the show far out from seasons 1-3. I'm probably the only one watching, but like with seasons 2 and 3, the season has started with a lot of promise. AV Club dug the episode too: 

 

https://www.avclub.com/westworld-review-season-4-episode-1-1849104783

[legend]

I thought season 3 was their best season, so I'm down. Episode 1 didn't click with me all that much, but I'm willing to give them time to develop something.

[Greatoneshere]

38 minutes ago, legend said:

I thought season 3 was their best season, so I'm down. Episode 1 didn't click with me all that much, but I'm willing to give them time to develop something.

 

That's quite a spicy take given season 1 is near perfect, but I liked season 3, particularly it's first half. Definitely need to give it more time though for sure.

[SoberChef]

Considering the up & down quality, fairly certain I'll wait until at least a handful of episodes are out before watching, if not just all out wait for the entire season to be released, then binge. A lot of other quality stuff being released currently, or set to arrive back within the next couple weeks including The Boys, WWDitS S4, & the final 6 eps of Better Call Saul!

[Bitgod]

Shrug, the music is still good.

[Mr.Vic20]

I was surprised to see this as I honestly thought they had ended this series. 

[legend]

9 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

That's quite a spicy take given season 1 is near perfect, but I liked season 3, particularly it's first half. Definitely need to give it more time though for sure.

 

Season 1 was good and kept a good mystery going, but I enjoyed how they expanded the world in season 3 and tackled a more relevant AI theme than "iS iT cONsCIOus?? Y u HuRT tHe RoBOT??"

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, legend said:

 

Season 1 was good and kept a good mystery going, but I enjoyed how they expanded the world in season 3 and tackled a more relevant AI theme than "iS iT cONsCIOus?? Y u HuRT tHe RoBOT??"

 

I did too but season 3 being better than season 1? Ooof, I don't know. But that's why I do wish more people watched season 3 - it expanded the scope of the show considerably. The back half unfortunately at times felt too random and "small" for the seismic, world shaking events of the plotline (I still don't understand William Prime's motivations after getting thrown into a psychiatric prison to then want to kill/destroy all hosts; seemed like a heel turn for his arc up to that point; same with Dolores Prime's motivations pivoting from killing all the humans in Westworld to freeing all the humans in the actual world (humans she had previously despised) from Rehoboam and Serac) but the first half of season 3 really sold things well.

[Greatoneshere]

I'm genuinely enjoying the season so far. Episode 3 dropped yesterday and having Bernard and Stubbs back was great - and finally seeing the Sublime was pretty cool. Aketcheta showing up was even better, and knowing they've spent millenia in Sublime time to map out all possibilities for our world because they need to ensure the Sublime survives was a great narrative shorthand to turn Bernard into a prophet (he just downloads all the possibilities and sees where he can affect things to help). I'm not really sure what Charlotte-Dolores (or Halores as people call her online) wants with Caleb, who has never been important other than what he's already done, and what's up with the flies of all things (still a nice callback to season 1's first episode's ending shot). It's pretty clear she wants to mind control all humans, and then copy and replace them all like how she replaced Charlotte and let them grow and evolve from there on their own like she did, but it still requires getting rid of all the humans. The robots in the Sublime seem content to each live in their own heaven constructs and ignore our world completely except insofar as it affects their world. Thankfully, two robots do seem to be on our side, Maeve and Bernard.

[Kal-El814]

I dunno how much sense it makes that Bernard can spend a simulated 7000 years or whatever in robot heaven and come back able to predict IRL events that it seems he couldn't possibly have known about / the Sublime couldn't have accounted for? Did I miss something?

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I dunno how much sense it makes that Bernard can spend a simulated 7000 years or whatever in robot heaven and come back able to predict IRL events that it seems he couldn't possibly have known about / the Sublime couldn't have accounted for? Did I miss something?

 

From my understanding (I watch subtitles with everything, which helps me at least)., Aketcheta says that he and the other robots in robot heaven have been spending time building their own heavens, their own "worlds". I'll quote Aketcheta directly from the episode after Bernard asks Aketcheta if he will come with him back to the outside world (aka the real world, our meatbag world), because this confused me too: 

 

"Oh, no. My own worlds call to me [presumably his own heavens like the others in the Sublime are doing for themselves]. But I can give you a gift . . . The future Bernard. In your world, time is a straight line. One year there is a millenium here [so the robots in the Sublime have been alive for 7,000 years to the 7 years that have passed since they entered the Sublime at the end of season 2 from our world]. We use that time to build worlds, models of possibilities, simulations of all the paths your world could take. I suggest you explore them. But you better be quick, because past a certain point in your world, all paths end in destruction. You must intervene before then if there is any hope . . . Survival."

 

And then Bernard goes all Doctor Strange from Infinity War and downloads all the different possibilities our world can take based on all the data. This is like a super version of Rehoboam is how I took it (like how Rehoboam knew Caleb would eventually commit suicide based on all his personal data up to that point in his life, though Rehoboam was also manipulating the flow of peoples' lives as well in that situation). Then Bernard sees where he can intervene to make significant changes. Granted, it's all based on algorithms from super smart robots who have all information about humans, how we work, etc. from a super robot heaven so it's no guarantee but if you can guess humans' behaviours and patterns because you know how they work well, we're no different than robots then really, are we? Is the commentary.  I'm sure Bernard is also making his own personal extrapolations from the data from moment to moment as well. 

 

So this is all something Aketcheta and everyone else has been doing, not something Bernard has been doing. I assume like Rehoboam it's not literally "prophecy" but close. I think the confusing point for me a little was Bernard enters the Sublime at the end of season 3 and then the 7 year time jump takes place. So Bernard was in the Sublime for basically 7,000 years, but I presume he finds Aketcheta at the very end of that montage journey he takes. I was confused by this but my assumption is since Bernard was stuck in a loop it took him 7,000 years to reach Aketcheta in that loop world fever dream his mind automatically created when he entered the Sublime because he had to go on that journey was my take. 

 

 

[legend]

The granularity and speed of simulation of reality the robots do is pure magic. The show has always been a bit on the magical side, though this is probably the most extreme version of it.

[Greatoneshere]

19 minutes ago, legend said:

The granularity and speed of simulation of reality the robots do is pure magic. The show has always been a bit on the magical side, though this is probably the most extreme version of it.

 

Yeah, pretty much this.  

[Kal-El814]

@Greatoneshere

 

Right, but Rehoboam existed in the real world and was drawing its data from it. To @legend's point I don't think that's especially "real" but whatever. I don't get how host AI's in the Sublime are accounting for events that happen outside of itself. At the time the hosts went into it at the end of Season 2, presumably the hosts that Bernard killed in this episode didn't even exist. How does the Sublime know about them? How is it accounting for stuff that's happening outside of it? Is it supposedly brute forcing... everything? 

[Greatoneshere]

15 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

@Greatoneshere

 

Right, but Rehoboam existed in the real world and was drawing its data from it. To @legend's point I don't think that's especially "real" but whatever. I don't get how host AI's in the Sublime are accounting for events that happen outside of itself. At the time the hosts went into it at the end of Season 2, presumably the hosts that Bernard killed in this episode didn't even exist. How does the Sublime know about them? How is it accounting for stuff that's happening outside of it? Is it supposedly brute forcing... everything? 

 

Yeah I'm not entirely sure. I assume all the data they had up to the end of season 2 between all of the freed robots was enough in itself to simulate everything about our world? I'm inclined to believe it's that and brute forcing it. We do know Serac wanted Delos' park data on humans and robots for Rehoboam (the original Hale was doing corporate espionage for Serac against Delos, smuggling data out of the park for him in season 1/season 2), and I assume the Sublime has at least all of Delos' data up to the end of season 2 thanks to Dolores if no one else. To be fair, can the Sublime not access our world freely? We know accessing the Sublime from our world can only be done by Bernard at this point, with Dolores Prime dead, but perhaps it's not the same the other way? It's clear the tower is the Sublime that both Bernard and Christina have been hearing this season, so perhaps we're not done with the Sublime yet and more light will be shed on Bernard's "gift of prophecy" potentially? Beyond that I'm with you.

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Yeah I'm not entirely sure. I assume all the data they had up to the end of season 2 between all of the freed robots was enough in itself to simulate everything about our world? I'm inclined to believe it's that and brute forcing it. To be fair, can the Sublime not access our world freely? We know accessing the Sublime from our world can only be done by Bernard at this point, with Dolores Prime dead, but perhaps it's not the same the other way? It's clear the tower is the Sublime that both Bernard and Christina have been hearing this season, so perhaps we're not done with the Sublime yet and more light will be shed on Bernard's "gift of prophecy" potentially? Beyond that I'm with you.

 

Right on. It’s not a complaint; the AI and hosts on this show have always boiled down to magic. Just poking it with a stick and making sure I’m not missing anything .

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Right on. It’s not a complaint; the AI and hosts on this show have always boiled down to magic. Just poking it with a stick and making sure I’m not missing anything .

 

Nah it's all good I'm totally with you - I find these kinds of conversations fun, to see what a show has actually thought through vs. not without being anal about it on my end. My suspension of disbelief isn't broken yet for the show's tone/world, so it remains believable enough (so far) as you said. It's a cool concept regardless of it's believability as well, which helped me.  

[SoberChef]

As someone who's watched the first 3 seasons weekly yet hasn't delved into season 4 at all yet, is it worth the week to week wait or should I just wait & binge the season as a whole?

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, SoberChef said:

As someone who's watched the first 3 seasons weekly yet hasn't delved into season 4 at all yet, is it worth the week to week wait or should I just wait & binge the season as a whole?

 

I think Westworld always works better binged, but it's easier for my wife and I to keep up with shows if some of them we only need to watch once a week, since that way we can binge other shows in the meantime. It allows us to watch more in general while saving time.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, SoberChef said:

As someone who's watched the first 3 seasons weekly yet hasn't delved into season 4 at all yet, is it worth the week to week wait or should I just wait & binge the season as a whole?

 

So far this season I think it's much more about your taste than the show itself.

[Greatoneshere]

My wife and I fell behind but we caught up now, having just watched last night's episode. I'm not hiding my spoilers since this is an up to date thread about the currently airing season of the show, but the show is now in clear Truman Show + The Matrix territory, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. The twists from episode 4 were pretty well done I thought and it'll be interesting to see where things go from here now that the timelines have met up, essentially. I never knew I was gonna get a Matrix prequel series but here we are, and that's pretty cool.

 

[Greatoneshere]

Ooof, Aaron Paul is just being put through the ringer on this show. I've been enjoy season 4 a good bit, though like last season, episode 6 of 8 is starting to show the seams in the Covid restrictions and budget. Everything feels too small when everything is meant to feel so high stakes. Everything is in open deserts and exterior locations with just a few actors but everyone keeps talking about the whole world being controlled and needing to be saved. Like season 3, it seems the show's reach exceeds it's grasp and the lack of weight to the stakes feels weird.

 

But other than that, it's been a very entertaining season and with two episodes left perhaps it'll feel different to season 3's soft conclusion. With things going the way they are at Warner Discovery, I'm worried now this show will definitely get cancelled and we won't get a season 5. With only two episodes left, not sure if this will be a proper series conclusion as opposed to just a season conclusion.

[Greatoneshere]

I think I'm the only one left watching (maybe @legend?) but the season finale aired last night and my wife and I watched it today - it was actually pretty ambitious! It's clear the show is setting up one final season - I think it's a big if if it gets renewed again by HBO but given the pretty enormous cliffhanger this season ended on, with a clear indication that season 5 will be the end of the show, I do hope we get a season 5. The finale cut the cast down significantly, permanently killing even host characters, and the show had the balls to basically give up on the physical real world, putting all hope in Christina/Dolores and the Sublime. I'd be down for one more season - any else watch the finale?