General Gaming Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (22 March 2019) OT - Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4 . . . (Update: GOTY Edition coming October 28!)

[ShreddieMercury]

As frustrating as it can be, I'm back to thinking that this is a tremendous game.  I do wish that it wasn't quite as difficult, but it does feel surmountable once you get a hang of the combat timing.  Frustrated by the first spear mini-boss at Hirata Estate, I went back and made some meaningful progress in the non out-of-time world:

 

Spoiler

I beat the chained ogre and the next samurai mini-boss, snuck through the snake valley, and just beat the horseman last night after several tries.  I'm currently fighting the blazing bull, which is difficult.

 

To anybody frustrated by the game, it's worth taking a different path, as you can make progress in other sections of the map when you're stuck.  The game seems to reward patience and exploration, and the world itself is beautiful and fun to traverse.  The verticality and level design might be the best thing about it.

[Bloodporne]

45 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

As frustrating as it can be, I'm back to thinking that this is a tremendous game.  I do wish that it wasn't quite as difficult, but it does feel surmountable once you get a hang of the combat timing.  Frustrated by the first spear mini-boss at Hirata Estate, I went back and made some meaningful progress in the non out-of-time world:

 

  Hide contents

I beat the chained ogre and the next samurai mini-boss, snuck through the snake valley, and just beat the horseman last night after several tries.  I'm currently fighting the blazing bull, which is difficult.

 

To anybody frustrated by the game, it's worth taking a different path, as you can make progress in other sections of the map when you're stuck.  The game seems to reward patience and exploration, and the world itself is beautiful and fun to traverse.  The verticality and level design might be the best thing about it.

I'm glad to see you enjoy it after all the betting we had going whether you'd like the basic concept of these games!

 

I think the Horseman and then Blazing Bull combo are kind of there to teach you just how mobile your character actually is. In hindsight it feels like you're first introduced to the importance of stealth through the earlier area and then these two kind of teach you "yeah that's great, but mix that with some urgency and aggression". 

 

And by the way, if you want to really practice your parry game, there are some great enemies coming up soon-ish to do so with. Just remember the blue-robed guards on the top floor. It's like the enemy that puts your lessons together and teaches you to mix your offense and defense to advance. 

[atom631]

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/a-sekiro-speedrunner-has-already-beaten-the-game-in-less-than-an-hour/

[eggydoo]

52 minutes ago, atom631 said:

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/a-sekiro-speedrunner-has-already-beaten-the-game-in-less-than-an-hour/

Well that answers how to stealth the ogre @Biggie lol

[ShreddieMercury]

1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

I'm glad to see you enjoy it after all the betting we had going whether you'd like the basic concept of these games!

 

I think the Horseman and then Blazing Bull combo are kind of there to teach you just how mobile your character actually is. In hindsight it feels like you're first introduced to the importance of stealth through the earlier area and then these two kind of teach you "yeah that's great, but mix that with some urgency and aggression". 

 

And by the way, if you want to really practice your parry game, there are some great enemies coming up soon-ish to do so with. Just remember the blue-robed guards on the top floor. It's like the enemy that puts your lessons together and teaches you to mix your offense and defense to advance. 

I do really appreciate how straightforward it is in regards to the skill tree, experience, item descriptions, etc.  The RPG elements are very streamlined.  Overall, it's a demanding, brilliantly designed single-player action game without predatory and malicious leveling systems, which is a rarity and a treat in the current games landscape.  My only criticism is the resurrection system and the use of shrines.  I understand that this is an essential element of the Souls games, and I don't have experience with those, but I'm not really understanding why it's necessary here.  The resurrection really just acts as a de-facto checkpoint, and since the consequences of dying are not really that impactful as you get into the game, it doesn't seem to add much in my opinion.

 

[Bloodporne]

31 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

I do really appreciate how straightforward it is in regards to the skill tree, experience, item descriptions, etc.  The RPG elements are very streamlined.  Overall, it's a demanding, brilliantly designed single-player action game without predatory and malicious leveling systems, which is a rarity and a treat in the current games landscape.  My only criticism is the resurrection system and the use of shrines.  I understand that this is an essential element of the Souls games, and I don't have experience with those, but I'm not really understanding why it's necessary here.  The resurrection really just acts as a de-facto checkpoint, and since the consequences of dying are not really that impactful as you get into the game, it doesn't seem to add much in my opinion.

 

Wait until you're further in for the underlined. When you're sitting on a huge amount of XP in a tough-as-nails section and you get your ass handed to you, you'll find out the extra layer of tension this mechanic adds. You'll definitely start feeling the impact of losing half your XP, tough bastard enemies respawning and so on. 

 

If you like the basic premise of this game by the way, I absolutely recommend Bloodborne at the very least. 

 

 

[eggydoo]

For genchiro

Spoiler

What is the timing of the lightning reversal?  I jump, press attack but it still seems to hit me.  Is it the moment it hits you?

 

[Bacon]

Just use the poison dagger, Sabimaru, on the Snake Eyes. Works amazingly. 

[Bacon]

Just now, Man of Culture said:

Don't have it.

u suk

Pretty sure it is at the 

Spoiler

bottom of the Ashina castle. Go into the main area from the Antechamber Idol and jump down to the bottom floor. It will be in a chest in the area behind a door. 

 

[Bloodporne]

9 hours ago, Man of Culture said:

 

Eh, XP only matters for skills and that's easy enough to farm. If this were a proper rpg and your actual base stats required XP, it would actually be much worse.. I really stopped caring about it though, you get far enough and it becomes incredibly easy to farm for XP.

Granted, you basically think everything in this game is incredibly easy or a variation of it, so there's that...

 

Unrelated but From deciding that some incredibly tough mini-bosses need to be engaged with a very limited consumable is one of those moments where I'm convinced Sekiro's difficulty is partially From buying into their memes. 

[Biggie]

Man this game is so fucking good. Never played a game that was this difficult but kept me coming back to keep advancing. Defeated the Chained Ogre after figuring out 

Spoiler

If I threw oil on him he would burn longer allowing me to just hammer him. 

Stuff like that is awesome and it felt soooo satisfying to finally nail his ass dead. 

 

Also little things like using the 

Spoiler

Ax prosthetic to defeat the guys with wooden shields. 

The game seems to give you what you need to defeat these things but it’s kind of up to you to figure things out. 

[Bacon]

I have basically been at the end of the game for the past 2-3-ish days and I haven't played because I know it is gonna be a slog to get thru these last 4 bosses. I have been outside of the boss room just waiting to fight, but I haven't done so.

[Keyser_Soze]

Maybe @Biggie will get into Dark Souls thanks to this game.

[Bacon]

I mean, if you can beat this game, you can beat any of the other Souls games. 

[Bacon]

lol, so I waited on that boss and it took me three tries total, killing it on that third try. Then I one shot the next boss, but that was because I already knew about that boss.

[ShreddieMercury]

Yesterday I fought the...

Spoiler

...swordsman in the pit from the prologue.

 

Probably took me ten tries, but it felt awesome when I won.

[Biggie]

Love the game but I kinda wish there was a way to upgrade your weapon & armor. Guess that would make it too easy. 

[Bacon]

Well, you have no armor, but you can upgrade damage and health.

[Biggie]

1 minute ago, Bacon said:

Well, you have no armor, but you can upgrade damage and health.

Yeah true but I was thinking more in the line of cool looking katanas or maybe a helmet. I dunno I’m just thinking out loud. lol

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, Biggie said:

Love the game but I kinda wish there was a way to upgrade your weapon & armor. Guess that would make it too easy. 

 

Maybe... you should play Dark Souls?

[Biggie]

15 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Maybe... you should play Dark Souls?

🤔

[eggydoo]

On 3/31/2019 at 6:00 AM, Biggie said:

Yeah true but I was thinking more in the line of cool looking katanas or maybe a helmet. I dunno I’m just thinking out loud. lol

Should try Nioh if you want to stay similar theme.  You can get to a point you're OP with armor and elemental weapons.

[Bloodporne]

I'm really glad I stuck with really learning how to parry after my initially massive frustration. The Genichiro fight was quite possibly one of the coolest things I've done in a video game in terms of feeling like an incredibly cool simulation of an actual sword duel. 

 

I saved the video and re-watched the fight after and honestly couldn't believe I was able to learn how to play like that in essentially a few days knowing how difficult the inputs are to make yourself look that badass. 

 

I've rarely had a game make me feel more cool as fuck as parrying some insane combo string like that with all those brutal sound effects on top of a castle in the midst of snowy mountains. Just a huge fuck yeah to all of it. 

 

I'm pretty far into the game by now and it's really, really fucking good all around I think. 

[Bacon]

Gennychiro is the easiest mandatory boss. Not that he is necessarily easy, just the easiest of the bunch. Well, I guess there is the horse dude, and a few gimmick bosses, but yeah. 

[Bacon]

2 minutes ago, Man of Culture said:

If Genechiro is a 7

then your scale is gonna go past 10. 

[Bacon]

I found the lightning phase to be easier than the other two. You don't even need to use the lighting mechanic for the fight, and can just dodge. I was intentionally trying to do the lightning shit, but I kept dodging by mistake.

[Bloodporne]

26 minutes ago, Man of Culture said:

If Genechiro is a 7, the Horse boss was a 2. That being said, currently I left off at the Ape and he kicked my butt a few times. Decided to go back and kill all the optional bosses I skipped past and hunt for some more gourd seeds. I was seriously under powered. 

I figured out a great strategy against his Terror scream on my fourth try or so after he clipped me with that shit several times. If you haven't yet, check through your prosthetic tools, there's a very effective one. 

 

This fight is actually really fun and I liked how much it changed up the parry timing from previous fights. Parry battles against this thing seemed like chaotic nonsense at first but after the 4th time or so, I entered the matrix and saw the timing.  

[Bacon]

1. Divine Confetti is a bad mechanic and you can only buy them when you no longer need them

2. Weapon Arts are fucking garbage. You are almost always better using your standard sword combo. Not only that but the advance arts use emblems. 

3. Ninjutsu's are shit. While they can be useful, they are wasted potential and are very costly. I would have preferred them putting the time of their creation into anything else. 

4. Low Spirit Emblem Cap and no way to restore emblems. The cap is 20 (+ 5 when you use an item that gives you SE at the cost of HP). Too many things outside of your tools use emblems. Reusable sugars, some Weapon Arts, Ninjutsu, and Prosthetic Tools all cost emblems. You are better off using emblems only for tool usage as the tools are far more useful. In BB you could at least get a total of 29 bullets. 

 

[Firewithin]

24 minutes ago, Man of Culture said:

I've lucked out with the dragon rot as well. Literally have only had memorial mobs get dragon rot and thankfully, only after I've bought out their inventory. 

speaking of dragon rot...how often should you cure the people who have them?  I just got my first dragon rot from the blood sample given to the girl at the temple.  Not sure when i should use it as a her and the prosthetic guy have the rot right now

[Bloodporne]

12 minutes ago, Bacon said:

1. Divine Confetti is a bad mechanic and you can only buy them when you no longer need them

2. Weapon Arts are fucking garbage. You are almost always better using your standard sword combo. Not only that but the advance arts use emblems. 

3. Ninjutsu's are shit. While they can be useful, they are wasted potential and are very costly. I would have preferred them putting the time of their creation into anything else. 

4. Low Spirit Emblem Cap and no way to restore emblems. The cap is 20 (+ 5 when you use an item that gives you SE at the cost of HP). Too many things outside of your tools use emblems. Reusable sugars, some Weapon Arts, Ninjutsu, and Prosthetic Tools all cost emblems. You are better off using emblems only for tool usage as the tools are far more useful. In BB you could at least get a total of 29 bullets. 

 

Don't agree with #2 and #3. 

 

#2 has skills that can inflict higher posture damage than the same amount of regular strikes, chip damage through blocked attacks and other "bonus" attributes. They're also fun to use. What I do agree on sucking is the use of emblems being stupid for the advanced arts.

 

#3 are really useful in my experience but again agree on the emblem bullshit. 

 

Emblems in general are yet another idiotic From idea when DS1 had this all figured out just fine. A certain number of uses per bonfire/idol rest, how is that in any way detrimental to the overall challenge or experience in lieu of Emblems or Bloodborne's stupid blood vial system? Or at worst, employ the DS3/Demon's Souls "mana" magic bar, which I think was also inferior to the number of uses/charges per rest but still way better than these dumb farming ideas. 

 

#1 wouldn't be nearly as dumb as it really is if it lasted even remotely long enough. Unless you go in guns blazing, the item's effect is entirely too short which is irritating as hell seeing how limited they are.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 minutes ago, Firewithin said:

speaking of dragon rot...how often should you cure the people who have them?  I just got my first dragon rot from the blood sample given to the girl at the temple.  Not sure when i should use it as a her and the prosthetic guy have the rot right now

 

You can buy more of the dragon tears or whatever they are later so you could use it right now if you want. I used mine right away but really only the dying guy and his mom had it. 🤷‍♀️

[Bacon]

14 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

#2 has skills that can inflict higher posture damage than the same amount of regular strikes, chip damage through blocked attacks and other "bonus" attributes. They're also fun to use.

The only useful Combat Art I can think of is the Ichimonji/Ichimonji: Double, and I very much dislike using it. There are ones that are more fun, but useless like the Floating Passage.

20 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

#3 are really useful in my experience

On trash mobs/basic enemies. You can't really use them on anything stronger and that is another reason they are so shit. And you would basically play the game the same way without them. Like with Bloodsmoke, it just lets you blind enemies so you can back stab another enemies. But running away and letting them reset also works. But then again, these are fodder enemies you are using Bloodsmoke on so you can just kill each dude in like 3 hits. Slight spoilers, but then there is the puppet one. I mean, it is kinda nice, but not many chances to use it, especially early on. It hasn't been until the end game where it has seen any use as it becomes more common to put harder standard enemies in the same room as an elite enemy. So a puppet works as free damage, but even without the puppet ninjutsu you would still just back stab the normal enemy and then fight the elite mob. Oh, and your puppet can hurt you. 

 

Basically, if they weren't just moves to use on the easy normal enemies then I wouldn't complain, but they only work on back stab death blows which makes them very limited and it doesn't change much about how the game is played. If Ninjutsu's had cooldowns then that would be better, or you can only use it X times before needing to rest for more uses would also be great. 

 

38 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Emblems in general are yet another idiotic From idea when DS1 had this all figured out just fine. A certain number of uses per bonfire/idol rest, how is that in any way detrimental to the overall challenge or experience in lieu of Emblems or Bloodborne's stupid blood vial system? Or at worst, employ the DS3/Demon's Souls "mana" magic bar, which I think was also inferior to the number of uses/charges per rest but still way better than these dumb farming ideas. 

 I have no issues with having to "farm" emblems, just with how low the cap is, that almost everything costs emblems, and that there is no way to restore uses in combat, like a mana potion. There is an item that gives you 5 at the cost of your HP, but it is mostly worthless. I just always bought loads of emblems at the start for 10 coins so it was never an issue so I have never had to farm. But like, there is no way I will ever a combat art that costs SE in a boss fight because of Prosthetic tools being that much more useful and cost LESS emblems. 

 

54 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

#1 wouldn't be nearly as dumb as it really is if it lasted even remotely long enough. Unless you go in guns blazing, the item's effect is entirely too short which is irritating as hell seeing how limited they are.

An item with 3 charges that applied the same effect would be amazing and would solve any issues I have with Divine Confetti.

[Bloodporne]

3 minutes ago, Bacon said:

The only useful Combat Art I can think of is the Ichimonji/Ichimonji: Double, and I very much dislike using it. There are ones that are more fun, but useless like the Floating Passage.

On trash mobs/basic enemies. You can't really use them on anything stronger and that is another reason they are so shit. And you would basically play the game the same way without them. Like with Bloodsmoke, it just lets you blind enemies so you can back stab another enemies. But running away and letting them reset also works. But then again, these are fodder enemies you are using Bloodsmoke on so you can just kill each dude in like 3 hits. Slight spoilers, but then there is the puppet one. I mean, it is kinda nice, but not many chances to use it, especially early on. It hasn't been until the end game where it has seen any use as it becomes more common to put harder standard enemies in the same room as an elite enemy. So a puppet works as free damage, but even without the puppet ninjutsu you would still just back stab the normal enemy and then fight the elite mob. Oh, and your puppet can hurt you. 

 

Basically, if they weren't just moves to use on the easy normal enemies then I wouldn't complain, but they only work on back stab death blows which makes them very limited and it doesn't change much about how the game is played. If Ninjutsu's had cooldowns then that would be better, or you can only use it X times before needing to rest for more uses would also be great. 

 

 I have no issues with having to "farm" emblems, just with how low the cap is, that almost everything costs emblems, and that there is no way to restore uses in combat, like a mana potion. There is an item that gives you 5 at the cost of your HP, but it is mostly worthless. I just always bought loads of emblems at the start for 10 coins so it was never an issue so I have never had to farm. But like, there is no way I will ever a combat art that costs SE in a boss fight because of Prosthetic tools being that much more useful and cost LESS emblems. 

 

An item with 3 charges that applied the same effect would be amazing and would solve any issues I have with Divine Confetti.

I started typing and realized I'm totally too lazy right now haha...sorry dude. 

 

Basically, I don't disagree with any of your takes on these things, just have a different perspective on what I like to use as in while not all of it may be super useful, they do have small advantages and make combat more fun so I dig it. And hey, I like Floating Passage! I broke it out a lot on Guardian Ape and it was cool. Outside of that I like it for regular enemies at the end of a hit or so to stylishly crush them. 

[eggydoo]

1 hour ago, Man of Culture said:

Turned out the answer to the Guardian Ape was to just be really fucking aggressive.

He is next on my list.  I found him, saw a giant gorilla and turned around lol.

[eggydoo]

22 hours ago, Man of Culture said:

Turns out he's really easy to parry, you just have to get used to his wide swings. If you stay close to him, he rarely uses the moves that are a real pain in the ass.

The first phase isn't too bad once you learn it but I was having a difficult time with 2nd phase where I had to look it up.  I'll try it again tomorrow.