Microsoft Microsoft’s streaming Xbox will split up games to keep latency low

[AbsolutSurgen]

6 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Details and deals are probably being worked out now.  Microsoft will probably use their cloud servers as a bargaining chip, especially for the low end console.  Or they might straight up require their use, which could ruffle some feathers.

We could see things like EA Access (Premier?) pop as independent channels, or be layered on top of GamesPass for an additional fee.  Either way, publishers would be charging their own fees.

Of course.  But, in a streaming world, the hardware is almost irrelevant.  You don't need to be tied to a MS console.  You can create an app that will run on an Amazon Fire, smart TV, or even create your own $20 streaming box.

 

That said, I still think that streaming of games is further away than a lot of people think.

[Duderino]

They have to be banking on the lower price to drive massive sales that will push 3rd party devs to prioritize optimizing games for their service.

[TomCat]

People are currently playing fortnite on thier phones.  I see no issue with a streaming service from MS  unlike Sony they will make sure it actually works before releasing it

[AbsolutSurgen]

48 minutes ago, Duderino said:

They have to be banking on the lower price to drive massive sales that will push 3rd party devs to prioritize optimizing games for their service.

Absolutely.  It's what they have always wanted with Xbox.  They thought they could do it with Kinect.  Then they thought they could do it with making Xbox one into a "media box".  Now they believe they can do it with Game Pass / streaming.

[Duderino]

25 minutes ago, mikechorney said:

Absolutely.  It's what they have always wanted with Xbox.  They thought they could do it with Kinect.  Then they thought they could do it with making Xbox one into a "media box".  Now they believe they can do it with Game Pass / streaming.

This is a bit different from my perspective. The OG Xbox, Kinnect, Xbox one, the X, they all launched at more of a premium price tag. 

 

 Now with this streaming box they'll have a cheaper entry point with the caveat of the device being a bit more involved for devs to port games to.  On some level that strategy is closer to what Nintendo has been doing over the last decade.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, Duderino said:

This is a bit different from my perspective. The OG Xbox, Kinnect, Xbox one, the X, they all launched at more of a premium price tag. 

 

 Now with this streaming box they'll have a cheaper entry point with the caveat of the device being a bit more involved for devs to port games to.  On some level, that strategy is closer to what Nintendo has been doing over the last decade.

It's a different strategy, with the same objective.

 

The strategy is VERY different to what Nintendo is doing.

[BuckFly]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:16 AM, ManUtdRedDevils said:

 

 

 

I was about to post something about this, in the original controller thread.  

 

How cool was that?  I mean the extra step of making the packaging more manageable.

[Brian]

1 hour ago, BuckFly said:

 

 

I was about to post something about this, in the original controller thread.  

 

How cool was that?  I mean the extra step of making the packaging more manageable.

It is really fantastic. We take for granted the joy we get from being able to open our own gifts or purchases. Now a disabled person will be able to open this by themselves must be a cool feeling for them. Microsoft had done a great job thinking this whole thing through. 

[BuckFly]

5 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

It is really fantastic. We take for granted the joy we get from being able to open our own gifts or purchases. Now a disabled person will be able to open this by themselves must be a cool feeling for them. Microsoft had done a great job thinking this whole thing through. 

 

ManU, probably a lot of back slapping going on when they came up with the idea and when they got a workable prototype.

 

Kudos to that one guy who stood up and said, "You know how we could even go just a bit further with this?"

 

I love it when people sometimes get together and decide to do good and noteworthy things.

[Brian]

4 minutes ago, BuckFly said:

 

ManU, probably a lot of back slapping going on when they came up with the idea and when they got a workable prototype.

 

Kudos to that one guy who stood up and said, "You know how we could even go just a bit further with this?"

 

I love it when people sometimes get together and decide to do good and noteworthy things.

It sounds like it started as a pet project for some engineers and turned into something great. It was smart of Microsoft once they made a decision to sell the product to bring in the AbleGamers Foundation for their input and testing. 

[BuckFly]

Just now, ManUtdRedDevils said:

It sounds like it started as a pet project for some engineers and turned into something great. It was smart of Microsoft once they made a decision to sell the product to bring in the AbleGamers Foundation for their input and testing. 

 

Agreed.  Another conversation of, "Look, okay, so we are going to do this.  However, if we are going to do this then let's not be half-assed about it.  We have to do it right."

[Brian]

4 minutes ago, BuckFly said:

 

Agreed.  Another conversation of, "Look, okay, so we are going to do this.  However, if we are going to do this then let's not be half-assed about it.  We have to do it right."

Which sums up the new Xbox division under Spencer. He seems to be taking his time to do things right. 

[TomCat]

31 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

Which sums up the new Xbox division under Spencer. He seems to be taking his time to do things right. 

Phil has full support from upper management so its only going to get better Very Good Times are coming and Phil is not done acquiring Studios

[Duderino]

21 hours ago, mikechorney said:

It's a different strategy, with the same objective.

 

The strategy is VERY different to what Nintendo is doing.

Don’t get me wrong, the streaming aspect of it is quite different from anything Nintendo would do, but I do think the big picture strategy has enough in common to warrant the comparison.

 

If these rumors are true, MS is making a console that will take extra effort for developers to port to but will likely sell lots of units at the lower price point.  Same objective, different approach, comparable trade-off.

[AbsolutSurgen]

54 minutes ago, Duderino said:

Don’t get me wrong, the streaming aspect of it is quite different from anything Nintendo would do, but I do think the big picture strategy has enough in common to warrant the comparison.

 

If these rumors are true, MS is making a console that will take extra effort for developers to port to but will likely sell lots of units at the lower price point.  Same objective, different approach, comparable trade-off.

Nintendo went after a low pricepoint on Wii, and arguably on their handhelds.  That is not the case with Switch or Wii-U.

 

Microsoft's strategy, IMHO, in the next generation will be to transition gamers into subscription revenue to a higher degree.  And the objective of this rumoured box is to create a low price of entry, to drive subscriptions.  I am not aware of Nintendo prioritizing subscription revenue in anything they've done.

[HardAct]

On 7/24/2018 at 5:52 AM, SFLUFAN said:

There is no way in hell an effectively "pure" streaming device will work with the American broadband market.

Agreed, I'm the only guy I know of {That I spend real time with } that has at least 500Mbs down, it's too expencive to most friends I have. I pay 189 a month for Cable, phone and internet and thats worth it to me, most I know would choke over that number.

 

I turned on my ps4 with my friend over and it had an update for a game that was 19 gigs and my friend just cried, saying that woould take him almost the entire day to download, it was 9 minutes at my house! never though I'd get to 2 gigs a minute in real time, but it's here and I love it so much. Funny thing is steam is 3 times the speeds I get from the PS network . . .lol

[Duderino]

14 hours ago, mikechorney said:

Nintendo went after a low pricepoint on Wii, and arguably on their handhelds.  That is not the case with Switch or Wii-U.

 

Microsoft's strategy, IMHO, in the next generation will be to transition gamers into subscription revenue to a higher degree.  And the objective of this rumoured box is to create a low price of entry, to drive subscriptions.  I am not aware of Nintendo prioritizing subscription revenue in anything they've done.

Up until now, Nintendo has been the only (successful) console manufacture willing to launch a lower cost system that knowingly requires more effort for 3rd parties to port games to.  If these rumors are true, then Microsoft will be making a similar move, albeit one that poses a different challenge to developers.

 

I understand how all this ties into Microsoft's subscription agenda, but their payment model is just one of many implications here.  I'm much more interested in finding out what this tech means for the games and 3rd party support.  Is it going to be like the X/Pro where half the games ship without great support for what people are buying this device for?  Does that even matter if it's cheap enough?

[AbsolutSurgen]

8 hours ago, Duderino said:

Up until now, Nintendo has been the only (successful) console manufacture willing to launch a lower cost system that knowingly requires more effort for 3rd parties to port games to.  If these rumors are true, then Microsoft will be making a similar move, albeit one that poses a different challenge to developers.

 

I understand how all this ties into Microsoft's subscription agenda, but their payment model is just one of many implications here.  I'm much more interested in finding out what this tech means for the games and 3rd party support.  Is it going to be like the X/Pro where half the games ship without great support for what people are buying this device for?  Does that even matter if it's cheap enough?

No.  Nintendo has never launched a lower cost console with the vision it would play all the same games as the most expensive console.  I don't believe it will be "more work" for the developer in the same way as it would be for developing for Wii (which made it essentially impossible for AAA) --  I believe very similar game software will be running in the cloud, and it  will be streaming essentially the same game to your console.  This is about (trying) to give you the same console experience, but moving the revenue out of the hardware, and into the monthly subscription fee.

[crispy4000]

Knowing Microsoft, they'll claim that it will be simple to optimize games for the streaming box.  They'll try to streamline that as much as possible.

But its still valid to question how much effort it'll take to get a game well optimized for it.  Doubtful it'd take more work than the Wii, but I could see it being more than the old Xbox One model.  Perhaps also the PS3 last gen, which had its own quirks.  A streaming service would already come with its own negatives.  If there's downsides on top of that on a game-by-game basis, it'd be a bad look.

 

I'd also be concerned about how much priority developers will actually give it.  If it was just lower spec hardware, they'd already be putting in some of that work anyways for a PC port.  But this could add a wholly different layer of optimization issues and complexities.  Not enough to make games unportable, but perhaps enough to make them essentially unplayable with a shoddy port job or subpar internet.

[Duderino]

On 7/28/2018 at 4:19 AM, mikechorney said:

No.  Nintendo has never launched a lower cost console with the vision it would play all the same games as the most expensive console.  I don't believe it will be "more work" for the developer in the same way as it would be for developing for Wii (which made it essentially impossible for AAA) --  I believe very similar game software will be running in the cloud, and it  will be streaming essentially the same game to your console.  This is about (trying) to give you the same console experience, but moving the revenue out of the hardware, and into the monthly subscription fee.

Think you took my statement about Nintendo out of context.  I never said they expect to receive full 3rd party support.  In fact recognizing that won't happen is how they can justify taking risks that all but guarentee minimal AAA game ports.

 

Now I don't think Microsoft shares that exact same outlook, they're not expecting to lose support over this, but they still will knowingly be making a box that requires additional dedication to get games running well (like with Nintendo systems).  Yes, it won't have the same power limitations as the Wii, but it still will inevitably require engine and code retooling of a different kind. Even if Microsoft has a stellar API for interfacing with the cloud and profiling bottlenecks, the core pitch here requires sectioning off time sensitive code and the other elephant in the room, memory.

 

Call me a skeptic, but I'm not convinced two separate systems running in parallel (stream box + cloud server) will be all that easy to develop for, even if Microsoft has some strong glue holding it together. Unless of course the developer gives up on the optimizations and opts to stream the entire game, latency be damned.  At least there's that fallback so long as Microsoft's certification allows for it.

[monkk]

This is cool.

 

All previous streaming games setup have streamed pure video back to the user. That's not possible with this half and half setup. Microsoft is streaming back data that the system can put together to create the graphics. That's potentially much cheaper. Of course it's also much harder, I'll start getting excited once Crackdown 3 releases...

[chakoo]

I for the life of me still can’t figure out how they can make a game more stream efficient then current setups.

 

Best ideas I can come up with is akin to vr timewarp where the hw tries to make a guest adjustment to what I thinks differs from the completed frame. Or some bastardized version of deferred rendering where the device gpu only focuses on the final composition and from that has enough info to fill in missing data for the time delta (yet this would take more bandwidth to send then a normal frame)

 

I just can’t wrap my head around how you can make a part of the cpu or gpu stack cheaper but still get something better then current streaming tech.