Gaza/Israel Update (04/02): Israeli airstrike kills foreign workers of World Central Kitchen (Chef José Andrés food aid charity)

[Joe]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

The leaders of Gaza and majority seat holders of the Palestinian Legislative Council, aka Hamas, attacked another country.

Obviously not the same thing. If they were sporting a Hamas flag, that would be different.

 

Gaza hasn’t even had an election since 2006.

[SuperSpreader]

Imagine only holding the GOP responsible for Iraq and not the United States as an entity 

 

1 minute ago, Joe said:

Gaza hasn’t even had an election since 2006.

 

Neither has Russia lmao

[Spork3245]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

Obviously not the same thing.

You’re the one making that argument, not me. I gave an example of another scenario. I’m talking about foreign nations flags outside of elected officials offices. At best, it’s in poor taste. I probably wouldn’t even care if she kept one at her desk or something, but hanging it outside your office is just stupid.

[Joe]

Also if Russia was getting relentlessly attacked and children were being killed in the thousands, I would assume someone sporting their flag was showing solidarity with their people and not their government.

[Joe]

1 minute ago, Spork3245 said:

You’re the one making that argument, not me. I gave an example of another scenario. I’m talking about foreign nations flags outside of elected officials offices. At best, it’s in poor taste. I probably wouldn’t even care if she kept one at her desk or something, but hanging it outside your office is just stupid.

 

I’m just frustrated that literally everything Tlaib does is a dog whistle to people at this point. It’s a bit maddening.

[Spork3245]

Just now, Joe said:

Also if Russia was getting relentlessly attacked and children are being killed in the thousands, I would assume someone sporting their flag was showing solidarity with their people and not their government.

Yea, I don’t take anything any elected official does in good faith.

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

I’m just frustrated that literally everything Tlaib does is a dog whistle to people at this point. It’s a bit maddening.

Ah, so your comments (and, let’s be honest, the others too) are almost solely because it’s Tlaib. I’m not some right wing assclown analyzing everything brown democrats do waiting to call them a traitor, I’m a liberal and typically like Tlaib. Her flag stunt is stupid, as was Mast’s uniform stunt: both are extreme derp behaviors from elected officials during an awful and tragic event.

[Joe]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

Ah, so your comments (and, let’s be honest, the others too) are almost solely because it’s Tlaib. I’m not some right wing assclown analyzing everything brown democrats do waiting to call them a traitor, I’m a liberal and typically like Tlaib. Her flag stunt is stupid, as was Mast’s uniform stunt: both are extreme derp behaviors from elected officials.

I know you’re not dude heh. That’s why it’s maddening. It’s not just Republicans criticizing her.

[Spork3245]

Just now, Joe said:

I know you’re not dude heh. That’s why it’s maddening. It’s not just Republicans criticizing her.

I’m criticizing all of it, though, not just her  

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

13 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

I’m just frustrated that literally everything Tlaib does is a dog whistle to people at this point. It’s a bit maddening.

repeating the genocide slogan and saying it doesnt really mean the genocide thing is…what exactly

[Joe]

1 minute ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

repeating the genocide slogan and saying it doesnt really mean the genocide thing is…what exactly

That one is definitely tougher to defend her on, but still don’t think she means it in the way everyone is assuming. But the Palestinian flag is completely different.

[Spork3245]

2 minutes ago, Joe said:

That one is definitely tougher to defend her on, but still don’t think she means it in the way everyone is assuming. But the Palestinian flag is completely different.

She had the flag up in less than 48 hours after the 10/7 terrorist attack. It’s performative art at best, and full derp at worst.

Good people having derp moments don’t need to be defended just because you like them. You’ll be less frustrated this way.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

There are a myriad of ways that those sentiments articulating the legitimate, righteous aspirations of the Palestinian people could be expressed without resorting to the baggage-laden rhetoric of the phrase "from the river to the sea". 

 

Even Hamas and the PIJ would dismissedly (and correctly) scoff at any other interpretation of those words other than what they were originally intended to mean.

 

Using those words is an "own goal" by any reasonable analysis.

[Joe]

10 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

There are a myriad of ways that those sentiments articulating the legitimate, righteous aspirations of the Palestinian people could be expressed without resorting to the baggage-laden rhetoric of the phrase "from the river to the sea". 

 

Even Hamas and the PIJ would dismissedly (and correctly) scoff at any other interpretation of those words other than what they were originally intended to mean.

 

Using those words is an "own goal" by any reasonable analysis.

No disagreements with me there. She should know better.

[Jwheel86]

Anyone with a direct connection to the conflict I'm generally willing to give a pass to given how incredibly emotional the conflict is, even if it is objectively a stupid take. The morons who don't get a pass are those without a direct connection who have bad takes. It's like Americans faking enthusiasm and understanding of soccer. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

White House resigned, frustrated by Israel’s onslaught - The Washington Post

WWW.WASHINGTONPOST.COM

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As U.S. calls for a bombing pause have little effect, the shape of post-war Mideast — and the U.S.’s role in it — grows starkly uncertain.

 

 

Quote

 

Critics of the Biden administration, including many Arab and Muslim Americans, argue that the United States has enormous financial leverage over Israel and could impose far more pressure if it chose.

 

Washington is Israel's largest military backer, and the White House has asked Congress for an additional $14 billion in aid for Israel in the wake of the Hamas attacks. But administration officials and advisers say the levers the United States theoretically has over Israel, such as conditioning military aid on making the military campaign more targeted, are nonstarters, partly because they would be so politically unpopular in any administration and partly because, aides say, Biden himself has a personal attachment to Israel.

 

Others say that Israelis are so driven by anger and grief after the killings that even the threat of an aid pullback would have little effect. And Netanyahu, an already embattled leader whose political position is imperiled further by the attacks, may feel compelled to hit back in a hard and devastating way.

 

But American statements calling for an alleviation of Gazans' suffering are viewed with skepticism by Arab leaders, who complain that despite its protests, the United States is in fact supporting Israel unconditionally.

 

While still a minority in the party, a growing number of Democrats are calling for a cease-fire, and some progressives are questioning U.S. military support of Israel more broadly.

 

"Of course the United States has leverage — we provide Israel with $4 billion a year in grant aid," said Bruce Riedel, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who worked on Middle East issues in the Clinton administration. "But every American administration, going back to the 1970s, has been loath to use that leverage because it would be highly unpopular."

 

Riedel added: "I'm sure they say all the right things — 'You have to abide by the rules of international law' — but in practice, there's more and more anger across the Arab and Muslim worlds at Israel and at us. It will come at a price."

 

The Biden administration now finds itself with little influence over a key ally whose military campaign could affect everything from the global economy to America's diplomatic relationships in the region.

 

"They're watching a train wreck, and they can't do anything about it, and the trains are speeding up," said a person familiar with the administration's thinking, who requested anonymity to discuss internal dynamics. "The train wreck is in Gaza, but the explosion is in the region. They know that even if they were to do something, which is to condition aid to Israel, it won't actually stop the Israelis from what they're doing."

 

 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

2nd term obama is likely the only potus and admin team in the last 50 years that would have put any real conditions on israeli aid and even that would have been minimal like pinky promise you wont do xyz

[Jason]

Totally not a genocide guys. 

 

 

[Jason]

How a Campaign of Extremist Violence Is Pushing the West Bank to the Brink - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

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Israeli settlers and Palestinians have been locked in a cycle of bloodshed for decades. But extremist settler attacks could send the conflict out of control.

 

[TUFKAK]

8 hours ago, Joe said:

 

I’m just frustrated that literally everything Tlaib does is a dog whistle to people at this point. It’s a bit maddening.

I’m only opposed to her on this.

 

Its amazing how someone as far to the left (basically a communist now) and liberally progressive as I am is being implied to be a right winger for where I stand on this topic which demonstrates my point.

 

She repeated a genocidal call then flew the flag of the side which is calling for it. Me calling it a dog whistle is me giving her the benefit of the doubt as that can be interpreted much worse.

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Totally not a genocide guys. 

 

 

 

Not a great sign. I'm not surprised though.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The IDF claims that its forces have reached the Mediterranean coast, effectively bisecting the strip.

 

Also, a BBC reporter in Gaza says that tonight's airstrikes appear to be the heaviest of the conflict so far.

[Jwheel86]

MSN

WWW.MSN.COM

 

Quote

"Israel this week used its Arrow missile-defence system to shoot down a ballistic missile outside of Earth’s atmosphere, in what is believed to be the first combat ever to take place in space."

 

[TUFKAK]

9 hours ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

2nd term obama is likely the only potus and admin team in the last 50 years that would have put any real conditions on israeli aid and even that would have been minimal like pinky promise you wont do xyz

It’s such an American perspective to think America can withhold money and Israel will do what we tell them too. Americans grossly overestimate our power sometimes. 

[TUFKAK]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Totally not a genocide guys. 

 

 

It’s not at this point, US forces made the same requests in our wars too.

 

You guys have no actual concept what a modern tank is capable of violence wise, let alone a combined arms force.

[unogueen]

Poster above thinks the Iraq ear is a benchmark.

 

What is the goal of the American right? Eradication and control. What is the goal of the Israeli right?

[Joe]

13 hours ago, Jason said:

Totally not a genocide guys. 

 

 

Not a genocide, but 100% ethnic cleansing.

[Spork3245]

There’s 1.52 million Palestinians living in Israel as actual citizens with full rights and roughly 3% of the active duty IDF are Palestinian (and that 3% are all volunteers as conscription is only mandatory for Jews in Israel).

[TUFKAK]

7 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

There’s 1.52 million Palestinians living in Israel as actual citizens with full rights and roughly 3% of the active duty IDF are Palestinian (and that 3% are all volunteers as conscription is only mandatory for Jews in Israel).

Which is roughly half of the amount in Jordan and more than Egypt, Syria and Lebanon combined.

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

Which is roughly half of the amount in Jordan and more than Egypt, Syria and Lebanon combined.

And besides Jordan which offers a path to citizenship for Palestinians, they have basically no rights in the other countries and are often not even allowed to work.

[TUFKAK]

16 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

And besides Jordan which offers a path to citizenship for Palestinians, they have basically no rights in the other countries and are often not even allowed to work.

But we hold Israel to a higher standard than the other nations cause, well, yeah.

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

7 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

It’s not at this point, US forces made the same requests in our wars too.

embedded media opens the military up to intel and tactical leaks so it is never surprising when states put conditions on embedded media

 

many states completely bar embedded media in hot zones altogether for that reason

[TUFKAK]

14 minutes ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

embedded media opens the military up to intel and tactical leaks so it is never surprising when states put conditions on embedded media

 

many states completely bar embedded media in hot zones altogether for that reason

Which happened in both OIF and the Gulf. 

[Joe]

First world countries are held to higher standards than third world countries? Is this true? Wow, first I am hearing about this!

[TUFKAK]

12 minutes ago, Joe said:

First world countries are held to higher standards than third world countries? Is this true? Wow, first I am hearing about this!

Third world demanding first world do what they refuse is nothing new but at least we know you allow limited expectations for some.