Kal-El814 Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 What a depressing episode. Sally continues to be one of the most consistently and thoroughly victimized characters in recent memory. Not that a show is obliged to give characters what they "deserve" but she continues to just get raw deal after raw deal. Their poor fucking kid. Again what a wild pivot from a show that had the truly hilarious taekwondo girl fight to... this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 This show's continued efforts to gaslight me into thinking that it wasn't a comedy are fascinating but also infuriating. The time skip is just ridiculous. I like how the show went from caricaturing how out of touch Hollywood is to portraying the midwest as a mixture of dirt, Xanax, god, Live Laugh Love pillows, and child abuse. This show is like a car crash I can't look away from. I hope the finale is a musical about how enjoying fictional portrayals of violence is baaaaad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 The bit with the rocket was just great. This show really is firing on all of it's strange cylinders at this point, I just can't get over how dirty they're doing Sally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: The bit with the rocket was just great. This show really is firing on all of it's strange cylinders at this point, I just can't get over how dirty they're doing Sally. This episode's sequences that featured NoHo Hank and Fuches were probably some of the damned funniest of the entire series Ultimately, I think that Fuches is going to be the "winner" (for lack of a better word) when all is said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said: This episode's sequences that featured NoHo Hank and Fuches were probably some of the damned funniest of the entire series Ultimately, I think that Fuches is going to be the "winner" (for lack of a better word) when all is said and done. I waffle back and forth between that and thinking he’ll get toasted trying to get at Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: The bit with the rocket was just great. This show really is firing on all of it's strange cylinders at this point, I just can't get over how dirty they're doing Sally. The show has always been borderline misogynistic towards Sally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Moa said: The show has always been borderline misogynistic towards Sally. Yeah, I think since the midway point in season 3 or so it's just been cranked up with no "upside." Gene, Hank, Fuchs, Barry... all the other mains have had their moments where they get to be funny or we get a chance to see them try to realize what they perceive to be the best parts of themselves. Sally's never really had that. Sarah Goldberg is killing it, it's not about the performance at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 “Oh wow” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 I...uhhhhh...have no idea what the hell to make of that finale. Someone please check on Bill Hader just to make sure that he's OK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Yeah Imma need a minute to chew on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 "Oh wow" will not leave my brain for awhile, that's for sure. Holy shit what a finale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 It's a funny coincidence that Barry and Ted Lasso are, presumably, going to end this week. Both vehicles for SNL alums, both started off funnier than they ended up and took a more serious turn. Anyway. If Sarah Goldberg doesn't win some kinda award for this season there's just no justice in this world. I don't know that where Sally ends up "makes up" for how genuinely cruel I think the show was for her over the last 2 seasons specifically; she thinks of herself as a murderer like Barry but killing someone in self defense DOES NOT make her the same as Barry. But it's really a credit to how good Goldberg is that there's zero doubt the mask was off when she was talking to John after getting captured by Hank. "Be true to yourself or die / end up in prison," seems to be the Barry formula in this season specifically and I guess Sally earned her wings in the finale. The confrontation between Fuches and Hank was great, both in terms of the performances themselves as well as another of the show's excellent takes on violent confrontations. It's horrifying, it's confusing, and we only really get to understand what happened after it's over. Fuches survived because he shielded John with his body, his whole reason for being there being really the only time in the show he did something selfless without the expectation of reciprocity. Gene getting comeuppance for just not being able to let it go is peak Barry. I do have some quibbles with how the show ended. I know the show deliberately employs fridge logic from time to time but it's rarely through how the actual characters themselves behave... so Jim Ross leaving Barry alone in his garage and pinning Janice's death almost solely on Gene makes absolutely no sense. The FBI learned that Barry is a hitman! Sally knows! Gene is alive and was protesting the notion that he killed Janice! Jim was thoroughly convinced that Gene is an idiot and he wasn't entirely wrong, so Gene doing the wrong thing with $250K does not seem like enough to convince Jim that he was Barry's puppet master. It doesn't ruin the finale or the ending, but I think this turn specifically was pretty dumb for an otherwise smart show. And I don't think the stuff with teen John worked. We spent fewer than five minutes with him. I don't believe the Sally that fled from Barry, told John that she and Barry were killers, that left LA, that seemed content being alone, who presumably did not let John watch The Mask Collector, would have changed her story with John. So his smile at the end is that he's happy his dad is remembered fondly, that he believes that narrative about his dad, or some combination of both. I don't have issues with speculative endings, but I don't think the finale gave enough for that exercise to be productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 It seems to me that everyone ended up kinda/sorta where they were "supposed" to have ended up except maybe for Gene because I sure as hell didn't see that one coming (and that's probably because as @Kal-El814 pointed out, it just doesn't make any sense narratively at all). I'm just puzzled about what the overall moral of this really quite odd journey is supposed to be, provided that there even is one to begin with. The Fuches/Hank confrontation was definitely one of the highlights -- if not the absolute peak -- of the series as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: It seems to me that everyone ended up kinda/sorta where they were "supposed" to have ended up except maybe for Gene because I sure as hell didn't see that one coming (and that's probably because as @Kal-El814 pointed out, it just doesn't make any sense narratively at all). I'm just puzzled about what the overall moral of this really quite odd journey is supposed to be, provided that there even is one to begin with. The Fuches/Hank confrontation was definitely one of the highlights -- if not the absolute peak -- of the series as a whole. The Gene stuff is weird. I appreciate that he's complicit in a lot and that his narcissism / pathological need for attention / self aggrandizement put him in the show's crosshairs. His anger with Barry specifically makes a lot of sense, of course. And there's the irony of him killing the one person whose confession would exonerate him right at the time it seemed like Barry had accepted that he needed to turn himself in. But yeah, nothing about the Jim / Gene arc made sense once Jim became aware of the money. Jim's logic had been unerringly good until that discovery and then it went right out the window. The notion that Gene's son would think that he got shot because he found out about the money is absurd; presumably Gene called for help since he didn't let is son bleed out? Again I don't need the show to "make sense." Nothing about Taekwondo girl "makes sense" at all and that whole episode was absolutely incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said: Again I don't need the show to "make sense." Nothing about Taekwondo girl "makes sense" at all and that whole episode was absolutely incredible. The TKD Girl "makes sense" in the way that this show inhabits a surrealistic/skewed version of our reality so that reflects its internal consistency. The Jim/Gene arc really just comes out of nowhere and doesn't really conform to the show's own established world. In any event, Bill Hader has proved himself to be a supremely confident director and I'm very much interested in seeing where he goes next! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: In any event, Bill Hader has proved himself to be a supremely confident director and I'm very much interested in seeing where he goes next! i think it’s a bold choice for a show that to some extent hung its hat on stylized and “funny” violence to have two really harrowing scenes; the public shootout from last season and the NoHoBal confrontation in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Disclosure: I haven’t watched this video yet but want to post it before I forget about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I just finally caught up and watched the fourth season over the past few days, and I'm really not sure how I feel about that finale. This show definitely got darker and more serious as it went on, with less jokes, and some of it absolutely brilliant, but at the same time I'm not sure if it was for the better or not. Ending with a horrible person like Barry being memorialized and honoured as a hero, while an innocent man, Gene, rots in prison for a murder he did not commit, the murder of the woman he loved no news, is not exactly leaving me with a satisfied feeling, nor a gut wrenching feeling of a true tragic ending. It just feels like of gross, and not the right choice. Sure not everything has to be wrapped up neatly, and everyone getting what they truly deserve, but this seemed a bit too much. Then again maybe that movie at the end is the point, and it's supposed to be a commentary on how Hollywood bastardizes the truth with "based on a real story" tales all the time, or something. I have really mixed feelings about this. Maybe if the "bad way" things ended was played more for laughs it'd work better for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Brick said: Ending with a horrible person like Barry being memorialized and honoured as a hero, while an innocent man, Gene, rots in prison for a murder he did not commit, the murder of the woman he loved no news, is not exactly leaving me with a satisfied feeling, nor a gut wrenching feeling of a true tragic ending. It just feels like of gross, and not the right choice. Sure not everything has to be wrapped up neatly, and everyone getting what they truly deserve, but this seemed a bit too much. Then again maybe that movie at the end is the point, and it's supposed to be a commentary on how Hollywood bastardizes the truth with "based on a real story" tales all the time, or something. Whether it was the right choice or not will be up to each individual person, but I do believe it's meant to make you feel gross. No one really wins, which is what happens frequently in real life. And I think you have it right about the commentary on "based on a true story" Hollywood stuff. Also Gene isn't innocent at all (in general, not about the specific murder he did not commit), he's just not nearly Barry level. Being a weasely opportunist who lies, etc. is not great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 32 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Whether it was the right choice or not will be up to each individual person, but I do believe it's meant to make you feel gross. No one really wins, which is what happens frequently in real life. And I think you have it right about the commentary on "based on a true story" Hollywood stuff. Also Gene isn't innocent at all (in general, not about the specific murder he did not commit), he's just not nearly Barry level. Being a weasely opportunist who lies, etc. is not great. No, but it's not prison worthy. Also I don't get why his son thought he shot him because of drug money. That seemed like an underwritten plot point. I think it would be obvious to anyone that he shot him by accident thinking he was Barry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 5 minutes ago, Brick said: No, but it's not prison worthy. Also I don't get why his son thought he shot him because of drug money. That seemed like an underwritten plot point. I think it would be obvious to anyone that he shot him by accident thinking he was Barry. Agreed, though to be fair the son had always been shown as someone who really disliked Gene and was wary of him and didn't trust him. From that mindset, the son probably just assumed it was more Gene BS. Not unbelievable, but seems like something that could be cleared up. To be fair, Gene reacts poorly in nearly every emergency situation he finds himself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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