Greatoneshere

Yeah, I added this to me previous post as well: It's basically cyberpunk/Blade Runner on steroids. I imagine if you do a peaceful/stealth playthrough, you could get more of the noir cyberpunk vibe of Blade Runner rather than it on steroids but Cyberpunk 2077 is a different IP and so skews differently. It's definitely going for a different vibe than the new Deus Ex games, which I also love. That's a more thoughtful, quieter take than this.

Yeah, the first real trailer was pretty aggressive (E3 2018), and ends with the player character loading up guns, getting into a fast car, and talking about becoming anything they want in the city. I dig it but yeah. It's basically cyberpunk/Blade Runner on steroids. I imagine if you do a peaceful/stealth playthrough, you could get more of the noir cyberpunk vibe of Blade Runner rather than it on steroids but Cyberpunk 2077 is a different IP and so skews differently.

That's always been the tone - to fuck shit up in the future, aggressively, at least in the trailers.

Well I'm all in to see this. Imaishi is one of the best.

What's your point? The ones upset about the storyline to the degree that they review bomb a game they haven't played have ostensibly put themselves in group 1, whether they know it themselves or not there's something irrational to the hatred of being upset by a storyline you haven't even experienced yet. Even if you divest the group 2 from group 1 as you suggest their reasons for being upset are suspect at best so whatever distinction your making is a distinction without a difference. Like, your argument is silly. "There's two groups who hate The Last Jedi, the typical gamer-gate type crowd and those who are upset about the storyline!" No shit. We're talking about the recurrent group that is consistently upset by the same or similar themes and ideas in the storylines and why similar content keeps getting review bombed over and over again for similar reasons and you think TLOU Part II is any different? It's the same in a long line of examples for the same reasons by both groups. There's significant overlap if you find yourself constantly thinking you are in group 2 every time a new The Last Jedi or Wonder Woman releases. You just happen to keep disagreeing with the storytelling choices of all of these things? Doesn't make sense. And I've already granted there's of course always a group that just have genuine criticisms and issues. They aren't the ones user review bombing, almost at all.

Yes I know I'm implying that may be contextual as well.

Absolutely. Bungie solved this with in-game dialogue and menu information, etc. But Halo 4 onward just presumed we'd read all the cross-media between Halo 3 and Halo 4's release. Even with me knowing some of it I struggled.

In general, the melee and hand-to-hand combat is very context sensitive. So if you position yourself and the enemy near walls and appliances as opposed to open spaces, the character will go into a strike-style melee attack mode animation as you hit away and just smash the enemies' heads into the walls and such, killing them much faster. That's what I've noticed anyway.

This. I stopped playing multiplayer games like Halo as I got older, so I stuck with Halo for the story. But Halo 4 was so bland and the mythology started becoming so convoluted that I just gave up on the franchise after that. I haven't even played Halo 5: Guardians or Halo Wars 2. I'll also add that Halo Wars 1 and ODST were great as well.

That's pretty bad. What a shame - he's great on The Expanse but I agree, this cannot stand.

Yep (I read Vox, Polygon, and Kotaku anyway). Did you read my posts? Again: there could be legit reasons to dislike part(s) of the game. There are reasons one could criticize even the best movies ever made. But we're talking about the user reviews. You get that, right? I already said way back in this thread I have no problem with Vox's or Polygon's or Kotaku's reviews, even though with a 95 metacritic they are clearly in the very clear extreme minority viewpoint. But again, USER REVIEWS. You're trying to dodge our posts and not address them directly, I think. A poor tactic.

I haven't played the original Rayman trilogy but I really enjoyed co-oping Rayman Origins. Still need to play Rayman Legends. It's weird it's been 7 years without a new Rayman game from Ubisoft Montpellier. Instead Ubisoft made them make Ghost Recon: Breakpoint? That's so out of their wheelhouse. And they're still working on Beyond Good and Evil 2. Wonder if they'll go back to Rayman after that. This is looking good though - always nice to see classics revived.

Nice! It's so good and it's definitely similar. Love it. Same! It's not as good, it's meaner and darker, but the sequel (by the guy who directed the excellent Gomorrah) is also really good, with a magnicifent mid-movie action scene. Yes, that music gets the blood pumping and then finally ends heh. It's what I've been trying to explain in the other thread about TLOU Part II sales . . .

Hilarious since as you typed "loud minority" I put the same into my post above yours just now too. It's pretty obvious what group we're talking about.

It's like he's really not reading all our posts. It's bizarre. I feel this happens all the time, when people try to put us into the argument or side of the debate they think we're in, which is us characterizing everyone who dislikes something as some incel nazi racist, which just isn't the case. We're talking about review bombing a game. We're talking about a large minority online with a loud voice that is extremely toxic that comes back again and again, after TLJ, Death Stranding, Wonder Woman, and so on. This is like, basic facts and evidence after 4 years of Trump. And now they've come back to do it again with TLOU Part II, for the same and similar reasons. And yet here come people trying to say: "there are legit reasons to not like the game!" Okay, of course there are. We're not talking about that, so stop trying to make that argument?

I gotta ask, are you intentionally being dense? NO ONE IS SAYING THIS. We are saying it happens in certain, highly unique circumstances and situations, and even then, no one is saying that it is true per se that if you don't like so-and-so game, you are a racist, neo-Nazi incel bigot. What we're saying is if you went out of your way to user review bomb a game you didn't play based on spoilers you read and felt so hurt you gave the game a 0/10 disingenuously based on nothing but potential spoilers then yes, you are on that sliding scale and some self-reflection may be required. That is all any one of us is saying. What's so hard to understand about this? User review bombing is the equivalent of being like: "I'm not a racist, BUT . . ." Which usually means you are.

Agreed - I've been playing with headphones on too and the Sicario-like bass beat of dread music that plays during combat sections is extremely intense and unsettling. I love it.

Except: Exactly. It's almost shocking some people can't see that it's not just a bunch of genuine, random people (I truly wish it was) just giving a really well made game a 0/10 because they didn't like the direction the story took when the reviews came in based on online spoilers and not even playing the game itself. It's disingenuous. I am telling @AbsolutSurgen, I have named numerous examples where this has already happened in the past. Why continue to deny it's existence? It's really there. Here's an example of how The Last Jedi was targeted on RottenTomatoes. https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12/20/the-curious-case-of-the-last-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score So no, it's not just a bunch of genuine users and some "bad apples". That's the same terrible argument people use for the police. It's systemic - there's a large group online that targets shows, movies, games, etc. that express certain themes or represent certain groups that they want kept down, bullied and downtrodden. Does that mean TLOU Part II is objectively perfect? No. Does that mean anyone who disliked it is an incel or racist? No. But the users review bombing it for the most part yes, are indeed some variation on that sliding scale of a group. They may couch their issues and criticisms in what sound like "real" things ("I didn't like the direction of the story" or "I didn't want to play it with this character") is code. It's subtext, they are talking like a politician to hide their real feelings: those 0/10 user reviews are really saying: "I didn't like the themes of violence begets violence" and "I hate the vulnerability of the characters in the story" or "I'm a guy and so I can't play as a girl". It's almost naive to assume the best of intentions with consistent review bombing of only certain kinds of art. Hmmmm. I mean, why are user scores generally similar to critics scores with most other things, and why are users 90% of the time pretty reliable (they usually have parity even with the critical score)? Hmmm. Weird it's only off-base with certain kinds of art. And always the same kinds of art. Strange. Hmmm. Weird. Only happens with stuff like The Last Jedi and Wonder Woman and The Last of Us Part II. Weird how it only keeps happening in such circumstances and never in any other situation.

But I'm not coming to its defense at all. I'm simply saying that if I were a reviewer, a critic, that I couldn't possibly score The Last of Us Part II a 3/10 on technical merits alone. Even if I didn't like the movies Dunkirk or 1917, let's say, I'd still review them very highly because they are literally the best in every category (cinematography, music, directing, acting, etc. regardless of story and characters). That's it, I'm not sure how that's an overzealous defense. If you're seeing it elsewhere, I haven't run into it myself. And on the movie board we follow review bombing all the time, this isn't the first time I've commented on this at length for paragraphs and again, I am not lumping legit criticism of something in with the user review bombers. However, many who dislike the game do overlap with the same group that hates everything else I pointed out earlier. If this is the first time you've read several paragraph long "armchair psycholgist thesis" on it (condescending to describe my mere message board post that took me 5 minutes to type up with such rude hyperbole) then I'd say frequent the movie or politics board here or elsewhere, we discuss it often. The Last of Us Part II is the latest in a long line of art that's been under fire from a very specific group and we've been having this debate for years now. Your suggestion that my post is some inaccurate armchair hot take when there's years of evidence now backing up that yes, certain art at a certain level earns derision by default regardless of how good the actual art is or isn't has been happening. This applies to as follows, things like: The Last Jedi, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Birds of Prey, Widows, Hustlers, FF7R, The Last of Us Part II, and many, many more. Now, are each of these things good or bad? A discussion worth having. But, again, it's hard to have when if you don't like one of these things, you are accidentally part of a group that also dislikes that thing for separate, toxic reasons and that's why I'm saying it's hard to have a proper discussion. Don't you think it's weird the same reasons come up for why these films, etc. get heat from a certain group? That group is incels, etc. as you said. But nowhere did I say "the haters" are all incels. I'm suggesting that most people who are currently review bombing the game (which is over 12,000 users now) are.

Incredibly important, happy to hear this. Hopefully it translates to the gameplay proper.

Great review - I didn't read the spoiler tag as I'm not done the game yet but I read the rest. I agree with all your points, though it's a video game so I'm more accepting of some of the limitations inherent to the game's design. However, on this point with the upgrades, I think that's there to accomodate different playstyles. I also play mostly stealth so your descriptions of a stealth play through are exactly like my own, but like MGS5 or Death Stranding, there's a ton not relevant to the way I play that's there if I want to (or for others). Some people like gunning their way through, and for them those upgrades would be more relevant than stealth ones. I think that's why those options are there.

It can definitely be done, but it is difficult and probably not by David S. Goyer.

I believe David S. Goyer is involved right? Foundation is so good, but I never had hope once his name was attached. I'll remain cautious with this one.

Exactly.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but as I said, there's a very real and interesting conversation to be had if you can divest the toxic group from the group that genuinely wants to engage in critical debate over The Last of Us Part II's finer points. I'm just saying that that is hard is all, there are at least two clear distinct groups with some overlap that dislike The Last of Us Part II to varying degrees. I don't buy the "both sides are equal" debate here. The game was review bombed before people even played the game by over 10,000 users. If there's any overzealous defense (which I don't think there is), it's in response to that, not out of thin air. Such thinking and groups of people do need to be defended against so it can't be that unreasonable to want to go to bat against such groups. Does that mean all negative critical reception towards the game is wrong or incorrect? Of course not, but who is lumping Vox or Polygon's reviews with the user review bombing?