Movies Black Widow Trailer and Discussion Thread (Opening 09 July 2021)

[Brian]

#Dorfisright

[skillzdadirecta]

Justa watched this last night. I enjoyed it too. And action packed spy movie in the vein of the Bond and Mission Impossible movies. I don't think it was inconsequential at all as it expands the Marvel U again, introduces another "faction" out there (The Liberated Widows), Sets up Natasha's replacement/Successor in Yalena, and further expands The Contessa's role as Marvel's Amanda Waller. Still surprised they didn't go with Peter Gyrich or Valerie Cooper in this role but I'm looking forward to seeing how they develop the character. As far as Taskmaster goes, I don't have a problem with the reworking but I would love to see the "real" Taskmaster at some point in his role as a trainer for villains. I kept expecting this one to bust out wings like The Falcon at some point but seeing them use The Panther's claws in additon to Cap, Hawkeye and The Widow's weapons was cool enough. This wasn't quite as good as WInter Soldier, but still very good.

[Kal-El814]

So the two things that stuck out with me about this are...

 

1) Are we dealing with some multiverse nonsense with Red Guardian fighting Captain America? I get that he likes to brag but that's such an obvious lie and Natasha doesn't call him out on it. I'd say that after Falcon and The Winter Soldier it's possible that Red Guardian was talking about a different Cap, but he specifically asks Natasha if Cap ever mentioned Red Guardian to her and he clearly knows enough about The Avengers to know that Nat knew Steve Rogers specifically.

 

2) I hope whatever feud they're trying to establish between Clint and Yelena gets resolved immediately, as it seems extremely unlikely that Yelena would take the Contessa's claim that Clint killed Natalie at face value given how much Natalie obviously cared for him. I would prefer they do not go stupid with this.

[Fizzzzle]

29 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

So the two things that stuck out with me about this are...

 

1) Are we dealing with some multiverse nonsense with Red Guardian fighting Captain America? I get that he likes to brag but that's such an obvious lie and Natasha doesn't call him out on it. I'd say that after Falcon and The Winter Soldier it's possible that Red Guardian was talking about a different Cap, but he specifically asks Natasha if Cap ever mentioned Red Guardian to her and he clearly knows enough about The Avengers to know that Nat knew Steve Rogers specifically.

 

2) I hope whatever feud they're trying to establish between Clint and Yelena gets resolved immediately, as it seems extremely unlikely that Yelena would take the Contessa's claim that Clint killed Natalie at face value given how much Natalie obviously cared for him. I would prefer they do not go stupid with this.

I agree, if they end up dragging that whole thing out through the entire Hawkeye series or something, it's going to suck.

[SimpleG]

43 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Are we dealing with some multiverse nonsense with Red Guardian fighting Captain America? I get that he likes to brag but that's such an obvious lie and Natasha doesn't call him out on it. I'd say that after Falcon and The Winter Soldier it's possible that Red Guardian was talking about a different Cap, but he specifically asks Natasha if Cap ever mentioned Red Guardian to her and he clearly knows enough about The Avengers to know that Nat knew Steve Rogers specifically.

 

I cant help but think Red Guardian fought Steve Rogers but not the same one Nat knows. Cap returns to the main MCU after dropping the stones off in End Game but in the past. RG could have fought him in the 80's before "main Cap" is revived and the Avengers become a thing. To him he fought Cap but to the "main Cap" it never happened and he would never mention it to her.  

 

David Harbor also said that the character 

 

“There’s a thing, confabulation, where people actually just believe their lies to such a degree that even when confronted with reality, they can’t process it,” he explains. “It doesn’t make sense [to them]. I think Alexei is very much the same way. He lives this reality completely independent of what other people have seen or heard.”

[Ghost_MH]

18 hours ago, SimpleG said:

I cant help but think Red Guardian fought Steve Rogers but not the same one Nat knows. Cap returns to the main MCU after dropping the stones off in End Game but in the past. RG could have fought him in the 80's before "main Cap" is revived and the Avengers become a thing. To him he fought Cap but to the "main Cap" it never happened and he would never mention it to her.  

 

David Harbor also said that the character 

 

“There’s a thing, confabulation, where people actually just believe their lies to such a degree that even when confronted with reality, they can’t process it,” he explains. “It doesn’t make sense [to them]. I think Alexei is very much the same way. He lives this reality completely independent of what other people have seen or heard.”

 

Yeah, there was no timeline tomfoolery. Alexei never fought Cap, he was just crazy.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

Yeah, there was no timeline tomfoolery. Alexei never fought Cap, he was just crazy.

 

I dunno if I buy that, he’s self aggrandizing and a blowhard, but I don’t think anything else he says or claims implies he’s that delusional. Even his perception about his family loving one another ends up being largely correct from the perspective of everyone involved.

 

I mean I also agree that it’s not likely that it’s timeline silliness, it’s just an odd quirk for the character given that it’s the only thing of his on that level.

[Ghost_MH]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

I dunno if I buy that, he’s self aggrandizing and a blowhard, but I don’t think anything else he says or claims implies he’s that delusional. Even his perception about his family loving one another ends up being largely correct from the perspective of everyone involved.

 

I mean I also agree that it’s not likely that it’s timeline silliness, it’s just an odd quirk for the character given that it’s the only thing of his on that level.

 

He just seems like the type that turned bragging about being able to beat Cap in a fight to bragging about beating Cap in a fight. He even gets called out for it when he's talking about it in prison.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

4 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

He just seems like the type that turned bragging about being able to beat Cap in a fight to bragging about beating Cap in a fight. He even gets called out for it when he's talking about it in prison.

I’d be willing to believe that if it were not for him doubling down and even asking Natasha. It doesn’t change the prison scene much since Red Guard still breaks the guy’s wrist for calling him a lier. 
 

if he knew he was making it up to sound tough there would be no point in asking Natasha, since she also knew Rogers was frozen in ice. But if he knew he fought Cap, then he may think the frozen is ice for 70 years story was just a cover. To hide Cap’s exploits over the decades. 
 

So there was either some time like shenanigans, or a secret US super soldier was active in the 80s and Red Guard just thought it was Captain America, or the same

Cap from the 40s. Or perhaps he thinks Steve is the same soldier from the 80s, different from the one from the 40s, who has recently become “declassified” and public. 
 

In the end it could just be some fun, throw away nonsense from Red Guard that will never be explained upon, and could actually be a big joke by the film makers to have us spinning our theories over nothing. 

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I’d be willing to believe that if it were not for him doubling down and even asking Natasha. It doesn’t change the prison scene much since Red Guard still breaks the guy’s wrist for calling him a lier. 
 

if he knew he was making it up to sound tough there would be no point in asking Natasha, since she also knew Rogers was frozen in ice. But if he knew he fought Cap, then he may think the frozen is ice for 70 years story was just a cover. To hide Cap’s exploits over the decades. 
 

So there was either some time like shenanigans, or a secret US super soldier was active in the 80s and Red Guard just thought it was Captain America, or the same

Cap from the 40s. Or perhaps he thinks Steve is the same soldier from the 80s, different from the one from the 40s, who has recently become “declassified” and public. 
 

In the end it could just be some fun, throw away nonsense from Red Guard that will never be explained upon, and could actually be a big joke by the film makers to have us spinning our theories over nothing. 

 

Sure, but also Shortland AND Harbour thinks he's just told the lie for so long he now believes it to be true.

 

Black Widow director on what’d happen if Red Guardian met Cap: ‘I

WWW.SYFY.COM

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In the latest MCU film Black Widow, David Harbour’s Alexei Shostakov, aka the Red Guardian, likes to share tales with whomever will listen (and whomever wishes to arm wrestle the guy) about that...

 

Shortland hedges saying that it wouldn't be too crazy if he actually was telling the truth, though.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

So “he’s probably lying” but also “it could be true though.”  lol 

 

they may do nothing with it, or we could get something in a “what if…” or a mention/clip in one of the multiverse movies. 
 

I do think it’s not a very good commentary about the movie if this is one of the most interesting things of the movie. Haha. 

[Kal-El814]

I don't trust hardly any of these actors to really be in the know about anything big picture at this point, there have been too many leaks. Certainly not someone who's only been a supporting character in one movie. The directors too, to some extent.

[Ghost_MH]

41 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So “he’s probably lying” but also “it could be true though.”  lol 

 

they may do nothing with it, or we could get something in a “what if…” or a mention/clip in one of the multiverse movies. 
 

I do think it’s not a very good commentary about the movie if this is one of the most interesting things of the movie. Haha. 

 

I took her comment to mean that he's lying, but it would be hilarious if he actually did fight Cap at some point in time and EVERYONE, including the people behind the movie, all thought he was lying. That's basically where I stand. He's most likely lying, but if it turned out that Cap popped up in the wrong timeline for some crazy reason and they got into a fight, it would be pretty damn funny.

[Fizzzzle]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So “he’s probably lying” but also “it could be true though.”  lol 

 

they may do nothing with it, or we could get something in a “what if…” or a mention/clip in one of the multiverse movies. 
 

I do think it’s not a very good commentary about the movie if this is one of the most interesting things of the movie. Haha. 

That's ultimately where I land on the movie. The acting from everyone involved was spectacular and elevated what would have otherwise been a bland spy thriller into something with character. Like Pugh, Harbour, and Scarlett dragged it kicking and screaming into being a good movie.