Gaza/Israel Update (04/02): Israeli airstrike kills foreign workers of World Central Kitchen (Chef José Andrés food aid charity)

[Spork3245]

18 minutes ago, Joe said:

First world countries are held to higher standards than third world countries? Is this true? Wow, first I am hearing about this!

 

Neither Egypt, Syria or Jordan are third world countries. 

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Neither Egypt, Syria or Jordan are third world countries. 

They are all appreciably less developed than Israel.

[Spork3245]

Just now, Joe said:

They are all appreciably less developed than Israel.

 

Okay? And Israel treats it's Palestinian citizens as... citizens. In most of the other countries they're not even allowed to have jobs, and during worker shortages they brought temp workers in from other countries instead of allowing their Palestinian refugees to work.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

Neither Egypt, Syria or Jordan are third world countries. 

 

There are absolutely considered "Third"/Developing world countries by just about any standard metric.

They're not nearly as undeveloped as many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, but they're very much part of the "Developing" world.

[Spork3245]

13 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

There are absolutely considered Third/Developing world countries by just about any standard metric.

 

Every list I checked had their GDP too high to fall under what is typically considered "Third World" economically. In terms of inequality/human rights and what not, yes. 

 

EDIT: to clarify, they were being listed as "middle income" countries. 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

There are absolutely considered "Third"/Developing world countries by just about any standard metric.

They're not nearly as undeveloped as many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, but they're very much part of the "Developing" world.

egypt and jordan are both in the high category of the un hdi

the wealthiest nations per capita are all in the very high category

 

there are also medium and low categories 

 

no metric is perfect but probably helpful enough to view things on a relative basis

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, Spork3245 said:

 

Every list I checked had their GDP too high to fall under what is typically considered "Third World" economically. In terms of inequality/human rights and what not, yes. 

 

The term "Third World" has largely become obsolete with the end of the Cold War as it was originally intended to refer to countries that didn't align with either the United States or the Soviet Union.

 

Currently, the preferred categorization involves some variation of developed/developing/least developed.

[Spork3245]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The term "Third World" has largely become obsolete with the end of the Cold War as it was originally intended to refer to countries that didn't align with either the United States or the Soviet Union.

 

Currently, the preferred categorization involves some variation of developed/developing/least developed.

 

I edited my post before you replied, this is what I edited:

4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

EDIT: to clarify, they were being listed as "middle income" countries. 

 

I think "third world" or even simply "developing" is kinda too broad.

[Spork3245]

 

[stepee]

well, definitely don’t read on resetera when they talk about this conflict as they seem to be performative team sportsing the hell out of it oof

[Spork3245]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

well, definitely don’t read on resetera when they talk about this conflict as they seem to be performative team sportsing the hell out of it oof

That’s how it’s been on most of Reddit too. It’s absolutely gross.

[stepee]

12 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

That’s how it’s been on most of Reddit too. It’s absolutely gross.

 

I notice most people there only seem to care if they can dunk on someone related to gaming, so they decided to pick Neil Druckman as the big genocidial madman to place all their ire on..for some reason 

[SuperSpreader]

19 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

I notice most people there only seem to care if they can dunk on someone related to gaming, so they decided to pick Neil Druckman as the big genocidial madman to place all their ire on..for some reason 

 

Cause he's a Jew/Israeli? What a bunch of racists. I'm not even a fan of his but to target American Israelis living in the USA not connected to the conflict is just so fucked. I've seen this over and over: we grant (unless you're some trash maga hillbilly) Arabs free of judgement for terrorism and atrocities but for some reason liberals think it's ok to dunk on Jews. 

[stepee]

9 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

Cause he's a Jew/Israeli? What a bunch of racists. I'm not even a fan of his but to target American Israelis living in the USA not connected to the conflict is just so fucked. I've seen this over and over: we grant (unless you're some trash maga hillbilly) Arabs free of judgement for terrorism and atrocities but for some reason liberals think it's ok to dunk on Jews. 

 

Pretty much yeah, because he was upset at the initial attack and made a tweet saying he was upset by it but he didn’t make tweets for every time that the Israeli settlers did something so now it’s time to get him

 

It’s also just like, not the time, at all, for that.

 

Id like to quote:

 

On 11/5/2023 at 8:30 AM, Jwheel86 said:

Anyone with a direct connection to the conflict I'm generally willing to give a pass to given how incredibly emotional the conflict is, even if it is objectively a stupid take. The morons who don't get a pass are those without a direct connection who have bad takes. It's like Americans faking enthusiasm and understanding of soccer. 

 

 

[SuperSpreader]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

Pretty much yeah, because he was upset at the initial attack

 

Like we should celebrate the initial attack? I see people are tearing down missing people posters too. Just gross behavior. 

 

I did see one with a NY man who was amazing;

 

 

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

Like we should celebrate the initial attack? I see people are tearing down missing people posters too. Just gross behavior. 

 

I did see one with a NY man who was amazing;

 

 

 

It’s like because he tweeted about that and not prior incidents when Israel did terrible things to Palenstine?

 

Its just targeting someone close to the matter for easy points so they can high five their fake leftist friends 

[SuperSpreader]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/gcVooAJwDu

 

[TUFKAK]

When I said higher standard I was referencing humanitarian relief and allowing refugees in and making them full members of the body politic, but apparently only western first world nations have reached that level of development. So instead they make statements and lob ordinance at Israel.

 

It’s frustrating because this entire situation is an international failure but only like three nations are being expected to fix it. But there will be no Marshall plan for the Palestinians, there’s no political will for it. You think Americans, including the virtue signalers, would support higher taxes for that endeavor? So instead we’re stuck in this perpetual cycle.

 

The world, no more America leading.

Also the world, well wtf America you gonna fix this?

 

also @Joe

 

I do appreciate that while we disagree it’s still a very tame and respectful conversation, this topic almost never is.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Jordan, Israel announce airdrop of urgent medical aid to Gaza hospital

WWW.ALJAZEERA.COM

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Jordan’s King Abdullah II says it is ‘our duty to aid our brothers and sisters injured in the war on Gaza’.

 

Quote

Jordan and Israel have announced the airdrop of urgent medical supplies to a field hospital in the Gaza Strip.

 

Jordan’s King Abdullah II said early on Monday that the Jordanian air force had dropped “urgent medical aid” to the field hospital operated by the kingdom in the enclave since 2009.

 

“Our fearless air force personnel air-dropped at midnight urgent medical aid to the Jordanian field hospital in Gaza,” he said on X, formerly known as Twitter.

 

“This is our duty to aid our brothers and sisters injured in the war on Gaza. “We will always be there for our Palestinian brethren.”

 

Israel's military said in a statement later on Monday that it had “coordinated” with its Arab neighbour on the drop, which it said also included food.

 

“The equipment will be used by the medical staff for patients,” it said.

 

Last month, Saudi Arabia’s Arab News, citing an unnamed official, reported that the Jordanian field hospital was facing an “existential threat” and would likely stop operating soon due to a lack of supplies amid Israeli bombing.

 

 

Jordan open to 'all options' as Gaza conflict intensifies | Reuters

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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Jordan said on Monday it was leaving "all options" open in its response to what it called Israel's failure to discriminate between military and civilian targets in its intensifying bombardment and invasion of the Gaza Strip.

 

Quote

 

Jordan said on Monday it was leaving "all options" open in its response to what it called Israel's failure to discriminate between military and civilian targets in its intensifying bombardment and invasion of the Gaza Strip.

 

Prime Minister Bisher al Khasawneh did not elaborate on what steps Jordan would take, days after it recalled its ambassador from Israel in protest at Israel's offensive in Gaza after a cross-border Oct. 7 attack by Hamas.

 

Jordan also announced last week that Israel's ambassador, who left Amman shortly after Hamas' attack, would not be allowed to come back, effectively declaring him persona non grata.

 

"All options are on the table for Jordan in our dealing with the Israeli aggression on Gaza and its repercussions," Khasawneh, whose country signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1994, told state media.

 

Khasawneh said Israel's siege of the densely populated Gaza was not self-defence as it maintains. "The brutal Israeli attack does not discriminate between civilian and military targets and is extending to safe areas and ambulances," he said.

 

 

Quote

Jordan is reviewing its economic, security and political ties with Israel and may freeze or revoke parts of its peace treaty if the Gaza conflict worsens, diplomats familiar with Jordanian thinking said.

 

Quote

 

Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi said any move to drive Palestinians across to Jordan, which shares a border with the West Bank, was a "red line" amounting to a declaration of war.

 

"Any attempt to expel Palestinians in an attempt by Israel to change geography and demography we will confront," Safadi said last week.

 

The Jordanian army has already fortified its positions along its borders, security sources said.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Israel may have 'security responsibility' for Gaza for 'indefinite period' after war ends, Netanyahu says

 

Quote

 

Israel may govern Gaza for an “indefinite period”, after the war ends, prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has suggested in an interview with the US’ ABC broadcaster.

 

Noting that US President Joe Biden had previously said it would be a “mistake” for Israel to occupy Gaza, interviewer David Muir asked Netanyahu who should govern the territory when the fighting ends.

 

The prime minister suggested Israel would have a role to play for an “indefinite period.”

 

"Those who don’t want to continue the way of Hamas … It certainly is not – I think Israel will, for an indefinite period will have the overall security responsibility because we’ve seen what happens when we don’t have it. When we don’t have that security responsibility, what we have is the eruption of Hamas terror on a scale that we couldn’t imagine."

 

Last month, Israel defence minister Yoav Gallant said one key objective of Israel’s military campaign was to sever “Israel’s responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip” and establish a “new security reality for the citizens of Israel.”

 

The US has also suggested the Palestinian Authority, which administers the West Bank, could take charge in Gaza while others have suggested a consortium of Arab states could take responsibility.

 

[TUFKAK]

So nothing will fundamentally change.

 

This is such a clusterfuck.

[Jwheel86]

Egypt occupies Gaza, Jordan occupies the West Bank. That is the only solution. 

[TUFKAK]

3 hours ago, Jwheel86 said:

Egypt occupies Gaza, Jordan occupies the West Bank. That is the only solution. 

They won’t because that’s asking for a repeat of 67 and 73 again.

[TUFKAK]

The world is turning against Israel’s war in Gaza – and many Israelis don’t understand why | CNN

EDITION.CNN.COM

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Yoav Peled says he has started wondering if the world has gone mad.

 

[Air_Delivery]

9 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

The world is turning against Israel’s war in Gaza – and many Israelis don’t understand why | CNN

EDITION.CNN.COM

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Yoav Peled says he has started wondering if the world has gone mad.

 

“I think any country in the world that would find itself in our situation would probably do much, much more and no one would say anything. It’s just the Jews. Because the Jews are not entitled to live in a country in peace. That’s what we want. And I’m sorry, but no one understands it,” Itzahak said. "

 

 

*continues to demolish Palestinian homes for Zionist settlements*


We are entitled to peace! I don't understand!

[TUFKAK]

57 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

“I think any country in the world that would find itself in our situation would probably do much, much more and no one would say anything. It’s just the Jews. Because the Jews are not entitled to live in a country in peace. That’s what we want. And I’m sorry, but no one understands it,” Itzahak said. "

 

 

*continues to demolish Palestinian homes for Zionist settlements*


We are entitled to peace! I don't understand!

If not every Palestinian is held responsible for Hamas how can every Israeli be held responsible for the settlements that don’t have widespread support with equal amounts opposing them.

 

The Settlements absolutely need to end there’s no ambiguity there. But that also can’t be the justification.

[Spork3245]

12 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

If not every Palestinian is held responsible for Hamas how can every Israeli be held responsible for the settlements that don’t have widespread support with equal amounts opposing them.

 

The Settlements absolutely need to end there’s no ambiguity there. But that also can’t be the justification.

Well, you see, Israelis are a monolith held accountable with blanket statements whereas Palestinians are individuals.

[Air_Delivery]

35 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

If not every Palestinian is held responsible for Hamas how can every Israeli be held responsible for the settlements that don’t have widespread support with equal amounts opposing them.

 

The Settlements absolutely need to end there’s no ambiguity there. But that also can’t be the justification.

I'm not saying the Hamas attack is justified. I'm saying if you want peace the first step is to act peaceful. Since the Zionists have outsized amount of power relative to their numbers and want to eliminate ALL Palestinians and continue to act in an aggressive way, the rest of the population shouldn't be surprised that there isn't peace. 
 

[TUFKAK]

31 minutes ago, Air_Delivery said:

I'm not saying the Hamas attack is justified. I'm saying if you want peace the first step is to act peaceful. Since the Zionists have outsized amount of power relative to their numbers and want to eliminate ALL Palestinians and continue to act in an aggressive way, the rest of the population shouldn't be surprised that there isn't peace. 
 

If they wanted to full genocide they would, it’s such a charged statement to make that claim man, you know better. Not even every Zionist takes that perspective.

 

I agree the settlements need to end as do just under 48% of Israelis,(per the last poll I could find and my family is opposed to them as well) the Jewish contingent of the population skews heavily in favor because religious fundamentalists gonna religious fundamentalist; sure. There’s no doubt there, but do we really want to argue the radicals are representative of all? The Israelis need to end the settlement expansion then relocate the settlers, I have no argument against that. Maybe @Spork3245 knows cause I don’t, but I’m willing to bet the current settler population is slim.

 

But this is approaching quickly on mass punishment from Hamas on the Israeli population for the actions of a minority, so apparently there’s a body count when mass punishment isn’t as problematic to many people.

 

 

[Spork3245]

6 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Maybe @Spork3245 knows cause I don’t, but I’m willing to bet the current settler population is slim.

It’s around 10% of the population of Israel, but that’s total for the area and not just the more-recent expansions that set this off.

[Spork3245]

The thing is, if Israel wanted genocide or ethnic cleansing, I’m pretty sure they’d start with the 1.52+ million Palestinian-Israelis living in the country, then move onto the additional 2 million Arab-Israelis, and also not allow either group to be trained by or serve in the IDF.

This doesn’t excuse the atrocities of war and extreme civilian casualties in Gaza, but… words/phrases have meaning.

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

It’s around 10% of the population of Israel, but that’s total for the area and not just the more-recent expansions that set this off.

Definitely too high but still imagine if we were held to account for ten percent of our population? 

 

4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

The thing is, if Israel wanted genocide or ethnic cleansing, I’m pretty sure they’d start with the 1.52+ million Palestinian-Israelis living in the country, then move onto the additional 2 million Arab-Israelis, and also not allow either group to be trained by or serve in the IDF.

This doesn’t excuse the atrocities of war and extreme civilian casualties in Gaza, but… words/phrases have meaning.

Those words are used to stifle discourse and remove nuance to the discussion. It serves no purpose and impedes any actual solution to this tragedy.

[Joe]

The settlements are allowed by the Israeli government, are they not? Obviously the country is responsible for them. 
 

Note: I certainly do not think that the October 7th attacks were justified in ANY way. But Israel does not have the moral high ground here, either.

[Spork3245]

17 minutes ago, Joe said:

The settlements are allowed by the Israeli government, are they not? Obviously the country is responsible for them. 
 

Note: I certainly do not think that the October 7th attacks were justified in ANY way. But Israel does not have the moral high ground here, either.

The current “Israeli Government” (leader) had less than 30% of the vote.

 

EDIT: I don’t really think most ITT are really arguing a moral high ground for Israel.

[TUFKAK]

26 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

The current “Israeli Government” (leader) had less than 30% of the vote.

 

EDIT: I don’t really think most ITT are really arguing a moral high ground for Israel.

Yes, Israel does not have the moral high ground and the settlements have worsened this beyond a doubt. Pointing fingers does nothing here; I want a solution; not to be right. If we put as much pressure collectively onto our representatives as opposed to waving banners and virtue signaling we could actually do something here.

35 minutes ago, Joe said:

The settlements are allowed by the Israeli government, are they not? Obviously the country is responsible for them. 
 

Note: I certainly do not think that the October 7th attacks were justified in ANY way. But Israel does not have the moral high ground here, either.

Yes but that’s like arguing all Americans are responsible for Iraq. There’s nuance to this that gets missed.