Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Trump, Republicans and progressives all oppose the bill. Quote Speaker Nancy Pelosi and top Democrats are making a last-ditch attempt to salvage a bill to renew expired surveillance tools Wednesday amid mounting opposition from Republicans and liberals in their own party. But it's still unclear whether the gamble will succeed. Senior House Democrats are now eyeing a back-up plan if the vote fails — asking for joint House-Senate conference negotiations in the face of a possible defeat on major legislation, according to sources familiar with the discussions. That step would bring both parties back to the drafting table to seek a compromise bill. Oh darn! Such a pity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 You know Trump is only against this because he thinks it gives federal law enforcement insight into his crimes. But it's amazing that the Democrats want the Trump administration to have this power. Speaking of which, did we ever find out what this was about? It's still mystifying to me that Obama did that knowing full Trump was going to be the next president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Sink it, sink it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 Now, if/when a compromise bill ends up in the Senate, will Sanders PLEASE SHOW UP TO VOTE AGAINST IT! IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE TERRIBLY BUSY DOING ANYTHING ELSE, BERNARD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Sink it, sink it! No. Maybe modify it, but don't sink it. It's done a lot of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, Slug said: No. Maybe modify it, but don't sink it. It's done a lot of good. Nope, sink it. Abolish the police/surveillance state, from the top down. Honestly surprised someone who voted libertarian says these bills have done a lot of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Honestly surprised someone who voted libertarian says these bills have done a lot of good Yeah it's almost like there are degrees of position a person can have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Also... Citation needed on the good these bills have done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Also... Citation needed on the good these bills have done ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Wish I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Slug said: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Wish I could. It seems like you should be able to point to SOMETHING good these bills have done if "these bills have done a lot of good" is your reason for supporting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Slug said: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Wish I could. I believe you’ve mentioned you work in that field, so I certainly understand where you are coming from, but surely you understand why ‘hey just trust us, it’s good’ isn’t sufficient reasoning for something of this magnitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chris- said: I believe you’ve mentioned you work in that field, so I certainly understand where you are coming from, but surely you understand why ‘hey just trust us, it’s good’ isn’t sufficient reasoning for something of this magnitude. Oh, "wish I could" as in not allowed to give examples, not can't give examples. But yes, "just trust us" isn't a good argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Surveillance might be the thing that I disagree on the most with Pelosi and Feinstein and other long time Dems. I understand there's some need for digital surveillance on foreign powers, and I don't really doubt that good has been done under FISA, but I also don't think that the specific structure of FISA is required to do that good. FISA has been bad news since its inception. Overly broad and effectively beyond accountability, I would be glad to see the whole thing burn to the ground and build it back up from scratch. My biggest concern is that I don't really trust this administration to replace it. Trump hasn't exactly been a fan of accountability or transparency. Still, if a huge, bipartisan, national security structure like FISA can suddenly face significant bipartisan opposition, that sounds good to me. Let's do the Patriot Act and the AUMF next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, Chris- said: I believe you’ve mentioned you work in that field, so I certainly understand where you are coming from, but surely you understand why ‘hey just trust us, it’s good’ isn’t sufficient reasoning for something of this magnitude. Oh absolutely. I totally get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 minutes ago, TwinIon said: Let's do the Patriot Act and the AUMF next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slug Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jason said: Oh, "wish I could" as in not allowed to give examples, not can't give examples. But yes, "just trust us" isn't a good argument. You're right, it isn't. And it can be frustrating for me when conversations like this come up, that I can't tell you, "$very_bad_thing was prevented" or something. I know, "trust me" is a weak argument. There are problems with FISA. There need to be improvements to the approval and oversight mechanisms if nothing else, that's for sure. But seeing results and first hand how it's actually employed is why my position on the matter despite, as b_m_b_m_b_m pointed out, my more Libertarian leanings, is one of, "fix it, don't kill it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I have a strong feeling that in the next few months we're going to find out why we need/needed to repeal these things if it does somehow pass. The Trump's of the world can't be prevented from holding office, so the power of the office needs to be severely curtailed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 41 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I have a strong feeling that in the next few months we're going to find out why we need/needed to repeal these things if it does somehow pass. The Trump's of the world can't be prevented from holding office, so the power of the office needs to be severely curtailed Instead Obama expanded these powers literally a week before leaving office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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