Television Star Trek: Discovery season 2 open spoilers discussion thread

[Jason]

4 hours ago, Chairslinger said:

I have not seen the short. I almost never watch webisodes, so I kind of hate when they put vital info in them.

 

Technically all of Discovery is webisodes.

 

 

 

Just watch them, they're pretty enjoyable and only about an hour total of content. They're mostly the character episodes that they used to do with the 26 episode seasons but can't with the 15 episode seasons. 

[dualhunter]

8 hours ago, Chairslinger said:

 

 

I have not seen the short. I almost never watch webisodes, so I kind of hate when they put vital info in them.

 

Also, I think maybe you misunderstood my reference. I was talking about how the Constellation class Defiant was lost in ToS. It eventually turned up in the mirror universe 100 years in the past in Through a Mirror Darkly on Enterprise. So that ship was also lost in time. Then, the Defiant class Defiant in DS9 was destroyed in The Changing Face of Evil only to return in The Fogs of War by rechristening the San Paulo as the Defiant.

 

While a bit convoluted, I was pointing out that in a roundabout way that would make it kind of fitting that another ship, lost in time, might have its name rechristened upon a Constellation class ship.

 

I wasn't responding to your reference, when Jason said

 

Quote

It's the short Trek where the Defiant is in the future with no crew on board.

 

he meant Discovery. I initially skipped over the comment because it says Defiant and only later realized that he meant Discovery and has seen the short episode I was referring to.

[elbobo]

Discovery has to go to the future to end up where we see it in Calypso but at that time it had been abandoned by the crew for quite awhile so its possible that the ship goes to the future but the crew does not or they all go and then the crew makes it back to their time leaving Discovery in the future just like they planned. 

 

Yeah they didn't build that Enterprise bridge for just two episodes, it is going to be one of three things, next Discovery bridge if the current Discovery doesn't make it back. Enterprise series with Pike, Spock and Number 1 that everyone on the internet seems to want, myself included. Last option it will be go to constantly redressed catch all bridge when they need one for a ship of the week scene. 

[TheGreatGamble]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, elbobo said:

Discovery has to go to the future to end up where we see it in Calypso but at that time it had been abandoned by the crew for quite awhile so its possible that the ship goes to the future but the crew does not or they all go and then the crew makes it back to their time leaving Discovery in the future just like they planned. 

 

Yeah they didn't build that Enterprise bridge for just two episodes, it is going to be one of three things, next Discovery bridge if the current Discovery doesn't make it back. Enterprise series with Pike, Spock and Number 1 that everyone on the internet seems to want, myself included. Last option it will be go to constantly redressed catch all bridge when they need one for a ship of the week scene. 

Id prefer to see them go 25th century, but I'd be all in on a Captain Pike/One/Spock show. I was shocked how good Peck is as Spock. He's not nimoy, but there is something there. Something that Quinto never had. 

[Chairslinger]

I am 18 minutes in on Sweet Sorrow 2 and it just occurred to me what is going to happen.

 

Spoiler

Spock will be stuck in the past because he's going to be the one that saves Enterprise from the previous foreshadowing of the Enterprise getting a torpedo stuck in its hull. 

 

 

 

 

[Jason]

I know nothing is precluding the Discovery crew coming back...but did they seriously just turn this into the Pike-Enterprise show? That Spock line about "swear everyone who knows what happened to secrecy" line sure has hell sounds like they're trying to do a hard break from the first two seasons.

[Chairslinger]

48 minutes ago, Jason said:

I know nothing is precluding the Discovery crew coming back...but did they seriously just turn this into the Pike-Enterprise show? That Spock line about "swear everyone who knows what happened to secrecy" line sure has hell sounds like they're trying to do a hard break from the first two seasons.

 

 

They were leaning on that scene to eliminate three of the biggest incongruities fans have pointed out with Discovery.

 

The spore drive, the time suit, and Control AI

 

 

I actually think they had differing levels of success with each. I didn't think Control was canon breaking to begin with as some did. And I think the result of season 2 made it very believable as to why Starfleet would not pursue that tech.

 

I thought the suit itself was definitely a big incongruity with the universe, but they did a decent job of explaining why Stargleet did not pursue the tech. Also, kind of funny to see the crew of the Enterprise possibly taking part in the creation of a proto-temporal prime directive since Trials and Trible-ations shows that the Department of Temporal Affairs to consider Kirk and the Enterprise the quintessential breaker of those rules

 

Lastly, I think the spore drive may have been the biggest problem with canon, and it's the one they struggled to explain the most. Other than that the spore drive was attached to Discovery, I am not sure of the rationale of why it was spiked. 

 

That all said, I hadn't really considered it, but maybe they are setting it up so the supposed Pike show could be the first half of the third season or something. The show just starts on Enterprise, and builds to mid-season tie-in with Discovery's fate.

 

It could work

 

I think I have made my position on Kirk-era shows clear. But I find that even I would be on board for the fan buzz around a Pike/Spock/#1 series. The chemistry is just there between the three and the little interaction there was between the three. However, I am of the opinion it would be best as a relatively short season or two series never meant to have a long run. Having it take over Discovery for half a season could be an interesting merging of those possibilities.

 

I have been waiting for the Spock shave all season. I knew they were going to have a scene like that.

 

I wish we could have seen some kind of teaser for Discovery. 900 years in the future should put them fairly in line with Daniel's future time, shouldn't it? 

 

 

[elbobo]

They certainly did some things this episode. With using the route of classifying Discovery out of the timeline they are going to have to keep her and the crew in the future, if they do a couple seasons of Discovery in the future then bring it back to roughly when it left they are stuck with why is there no mention of the sporedrive in future set Trek, still not entirely clear why they are classifying the sporedrive completely out of existence from in an universe perspective but whatever that is what the writers went with. Then again Georgiou is on the Discovery and they are developing a Section 31 show around her so I have no idea how that is going to work. I guess season 3 will have a Voyager style feel to it with one Federation ship on its own in the unknown, so they are wide open with what they can do there. Problem being the ship just went through a major battle and is in rough shape.

 

This isn't a complaint about just this episode but a lot of scifi in general, huge CGI space battles do not work on screen. A thousand ships flying around pew-pewing at each other and exploding just turns into visual noise. This battle the battle of the binary stars and even the opening battle in Revenge of the Sith are just a mess of light on the screen, they are the equivalent of a 500 piece jazz band. Compare those to the "smaller" and less frenetic final battle in the Return of the Jedi which after 35+ years that is still the king of large space battles. 

 

oh that was one really tough blast door too

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

They should make the outer hull out of those blast doors. The ships would be invincible. 

 

 

Classifying the ship’s whereabouts makes sense as there could be remnants of Control around still looking for the ship. Classifying the spore drive is just convenience to explain why nobody knows or talks about it in TOS/TNG/DS9/Voyager. There isn’t a good reason to classify the technology that would give the federation such an obvious advantage over any faction that would try to fight the federation. It would also make exploration much easier. 

 

Overall I liked the season. It was more fun and felt more like Star Trek than season 1 did. I feel like if not for trying to shoehorn this into the TOS era, this could have fit later in the Trek timeline. Where visual design choices could have made more sense. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

There isn’t a good reason to classify the technology that would give the federation such an obvious advantage over any faction that would try to fight the federation.

 

Just like there was never a good reason for the Federation to willingly sign a treaty where they were the only ones who wouldn't get to use cloaking. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Just like there was never a good reason for the Federation to willingly sign a treaty where they were the only ones who wouldn't get to use cloaking. 

Unsure on the negotiations over the treaty, but that could be executed as a concession for peace with the Klingons. To classify and give up the spire drive was just something they imposed on themselves. There wasn’t even the potential for a trade off to give up spore drive technology. 

 

I could see the Klingons wanting to keep the one technology they have that gives them a clear edge restricted to even a former adversary. If the treaty collapses it’s the only trump card they have. The Federation must have gotten something good for that concession, or been desperate to end the war and were willing to give up a technology they didn’t even have yet.   

[Chairslinger]

Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Unsure on the negotiations over the treaty, but that could be executed as a concession for peace with the Klingons. To classify and give up the spire drive was just something they imposed on themselves. There wasn’t even the potential for a trade off to give up spore drive technology. 

 

I could see the Klingons wanting to keep the one technology they have that gives them a clear edge restricted to even a former adversary. If the treaty collapses it’s the only trump card they have. The Federation must have gotten something good for that concession, or been desperate to end the war and were willing to give up a technology they didn’t even have yet.   

 

 

Plus, I am not sure how much the Federation would even want cloaking tech. Granted it serves a purpose in time of war, but they respond to distress calls or just greetings from any warp capable species. I don't think Starfleet would want to project the image of skulking around space in secret.

 

And they are portrayed as being in a pretty steady race with the Romulans and Klingons with cloaking/anti-cloaking technology. So it's not like the treaty forces the Federation to just accept the disadvantage.

 

The spore drive, on the other hand, is tech that goes to the very heart of Starfleet. What Captain wouldn't give his favorite flute to be able to travel to the Delta quadrant and back in 5 minutes?

 

They should have just went with the idea that they kind of hinted at in s1. That people using the fungi highway causes irreparable harm to it(kind of like Force of Nature). It still would be a little weird that they gave up such a huge technological leap completely, but it would at least be in line with Starfleet's principles.

[elbobo]

They released a new short that was Spock's first day on the Enterprise, just make the Pike Enterprise show already CBS.