Television Star Trek: Discovery season 2 open spoilers discussion thread

[Jason]

To kick the thread off, does anyone know what time CBS is putting the episodes up on All Access now that the show has moved to Thursdays?

[atom631]

I watched What I think was the first half of season 1 on a cbs trial. I like it. It was moody and dark. I never watched the 2nd half of s1 and refuse to pay for a service for 1 show. 

[Mr.Vic20]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

To kick the thread off, does anyone know what time CBS is putting the episodes up on All Access now that the show has moved to Thursdays?

8:30 EST

[dualhunter]

It started at 8:00 Eastern on Space in Canada. It ran past 9 so I guess I'll be watching the recording of The Orville another day.

[Jason]

I still have some basic complaints about going back to this time period again and the problems it's inevitably going to cause, but this was a very promising start to the season. And some of the lines felt like they were aimed squarely at the audience who was concerned that this was going to be like last season. 

[IdeaOfEvil]

I'm cautiously optimistic for this season. The dialogue was fine, and the easter eggs were great (audio and visual). But that asteroid scene was a hot mess of bad camera angles, terrible motions, and poor "intense action" quick cuts.  Thankfully that scene's phony calamity didn't continue in the episode when it was all over, but it scares me to think that the rest of the season is gonna use those same tactics of barely-there-shakey-cam motions, lens flares, and awful effects to over stress danger =/

 

But still, Pike was great, the rest of the cast was fine in their familiar roles, and the cg work overall is very decent. I think I'm just happy that anything Star Trek is back, especially after being so starved for legit sci-fi continuations that doesn't abuse/ignore its previous history.

[Mr.Vic20]

Asteroid scene was indeed a painful clear contrived mess to promote crew bonding and address staffing issues. Otherwise, I enjoyed the episode and agree that the season holds a lot of promise. It may not be the Star Trek I was looking for, but I enjoy it for what it is all the same! 

 

Edit: Oh and Mr. Mount is doing a great job as an interesting captain type! 

[elbobo]

I will agree the continued look/directing of show is unquestionably nu-trek or JJ-trek whatever you want to call and is in stark contrast to every show that has come before but at this point it certainly seems like it is going to be the immediate future of trek.

 

I love the fact that mission statement of season appears to be go have an adventure and explore/discover which is exactly what Trek should always be.

 

Pike is good so far, optimistic about that.

 

Inflation adjusted this certainly looked like the most expensive episode of any star trek series ever made not counting pilot episodes with their huge sunk costs of sets and props. I wonder if they blew their wad early or if this is what the whole season will look like. 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, elbobo said:

I will agree the continued look/directing of show is unquestionably nu-trek or JJ-trek whatever you want to call and is in stark contrast to every show that has come before but at this point it certainly seems like it is going to be the immediate future of trek.

 

I love the fact that mission statement of season appears to be go have an adventure and explore/discover which is exactly what Trek should always be.

 

Pike is good so far, optimistic about that.

 

Inflation adjusted this certainly looked like the most expensive episode of any star trek series ever made not counting pilot episodes with their huge sunk costs of sets and props. I wonder if they blew their wad early or if this is what the whole season will look like. 

 

Star Trek seasons used to be 26 episodes a season and now they're going for more like 15, so even with the same inflation-adjusted budget they'd still have more money per episode to work with. 

 

Which isn't necessarily great because in DS9 for example, some great episodes that fleshed out the characters and universe were cheap effects-light episodes done to even out the budget. 

[elbobo]

Couple of things that bugged me, on the nitpicky side. The turbolift and the launching the landing pods shots made the interior of the ship seem absolutely enormous, it looked like the turbolift was a rollercoaster going through a ten story warehouse and the launch tubes went on forever.

 

Also the crew member in the wheelchair that popped up a couple of times. I'm all for inclusiveness but even the freaking bridge has stairs on it, if he had some kind of sweet professor X hover chair maybe that would work but I think you would have to able bodied to serve in starfleet. 

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, elbobo said:

Couple of things that bugged me, on the nitpicky side. The turbolift and the launching the landing pods shots made the interior of the ship seem absolutely enormous, it looked like the turbolift was a rollercoaster going through a ten story warehouse and the launch tubes went on forever.

 

Also the crew member in the wheelchair that popped up a couple of times. I'm all for inclusiveness but even the freaking bridge has stairs on it, if he had some kind of sweet professor X hover chair maybe that would work but I think you would have to able bodied to serve in starfleet. 

 

[Jason]

But even leaving out letting the graybeard admiral have a look around, there's other canon instances of Starfleet trying to work around people's physical limitations to let them serve: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Melora_Pazlar

[Alpha1Cowboy]

Binge watched the first season and enjoyed it even though it was definitely more movie melodramatic Trek.  Since I watched all of season 1 in just 2 days last week and then immediately watched S2 Ep 1......I got tonal whiplash.  Even with the pump the brakes approach and lightening the mood....some of the things they did in the first season paid off.  I mean...we've seen bad guy mirror universe representations of almost all the Captains.but never really the effect on the crews afterwards in regards to trust (although the whole Picard/Locutus issue did have some lingering after effects, but they were still toned down)  

 

It was nice to see Pike in the chair. They did a great job with the charachter and the Easter Eggs were fun.....my favorite was the uniforms.

 

Going forward...I hope we get to expand on the bridge crew even more this season versus bringing in newer characters, but I'm all good either way

. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

Binge watched the first season and enjoyed it even though it was definitely more movie melodramatic Trek.  Since I watched all of season 1 in just 2 days last week and then immediately watched S2 Ep 1......I got tonal whiplash.  Even with the pump the brakes approach and lightening the mood....some of the things they did in the first season paid off.  I mean...we've seen bad guy mirror universe representations of almost all the Captains.but never really the effect on the crews afterwards in regards to trust (although the whole Picard/Locutus issue did have some lingering after effects, but they were still toned down)  

 

It was nice to see Pike in the chair. They did a great job with the charachter and the Easter Eggs were fun.....my favorite was the uniforms.

 

 

The showrunners seem to have been rushing to just jettison as much of Fuller-Trek out the airlock as quickly as humanly possible as the first season finished up. The absurdly abrupt end of the Klingon war is an obvious example. Which I'm fine with given that they seem to have been gunning for just giving up on the plotline and just throwing it overboard instead of wasting time and energy on trying to salvage a lost cause.

 

1 hour ago, Alpha1Cowboy said:

Going forward...I hope we get to expand on the bridge crew even more this season versus bringing in newer characters, but I'm all good either way 

 

The bridge roll call is one of the things I had in mind when I said bits of the episode seemed aimed squarely at the fans upset that the bridge crew were being treated as trivial props. Like, fine, if they're secondary characters and not fully fleshed-out cast then whatever (it seems like we're going to complete our ensemble off-ship)...but at least acknowledge them as actual people and not just set pieces for the show's 3D printer.

 

Apparently Airiam    got recast...and I really can't say I blame the actress considering the amount of makeup she was sitting through to do literally nothing every episode.

[elbobo]

I agree the bridge roll call was the first step in making them actual characters vs props in the background that press buttons.

 

I hope the rescued engineer sticks around too

[IdeaOfEvil]

Interesting episode this week, but it's feeling off from where I was enjoying it during the first season. Michael's Mary-Sue status is less prominent this time around, but the inclusion of the religion aspect and showing her denial of it for science is already making me roll my eyes. I want more science and political drama. I don't want theology mixed with moral turpitude. And it's nice that the crew is getting more integration, but we're losing any sense of military conduct for it (which is bad). People are running around on the bridge with left field plans, talking over people, jumping in seats that they're not qualified to sit in, people are breaking rank and clapping when a job pulls through at the end, etc. It just feels sloppy. New, but sloppy. And it's something that's going to get old real quick if it doesn't change.

 

Also, once again the Pike character is a standout in this episode, but *minor spoiler*his injury sustained*minor spoiler* makes me fear that he's just gonna end up in wheelchair like every other Pike has been in in every other iteration of the character. I hope to God the writers don't go down that familiar road this time around and actually do something new with him. Especially this Pike.

 

It's still Star Trek, so I'm happy that something's out there in the world to watch. But it isn't bullet-proof, and I'd hate to get as sick of this show as I did with Voyager and Enterprise after watching the first season or two back in their day...

[elbobo]

More episodes like this please, felt more like Trek than the whole first season put together 

[ALIEN-gunner]

CBS put the first episode of season 2 on Youtube for free, apparently because the show has a 25-30% approval rating and no one really wants to watch it, me included. What the hell I watched it and it wasn't half bad. It had some really stupid stuff like the forced comedy, lore retconning and unbelievable crew members but it was a pretty good action drama. It's not really "Star Trek" but it's still pretty neat. 

[qwik4a6]

I think the show is really good and season 2 is off to a great start. But I get why it's not being watched. CBS All Access is the problem. They set this show up to fail. Production values are off the charts and if it doesn't turn into a mega hit this season they will cancel and blame the numbers. Not the fact that paying for just one show is kinda pointless unless it's game of thrones. But even that is the most pirated show on TV. 

 

If this was on Netflix or Hulu it would be a hit. No doubt about it. 

[elbobo]

Did not like this week's at all and the directing was terrible with the constant camera rotations and craning around, just a needlessly busy mess.

[Mr.Vic20]

7 minutes ago, elbobo said:

Did not like this week's at all and the directing was terrible with the constant camera rotations and craning around, just a needlessly busy mess.

Near the end of the episode, with the fly into the ship, I wonder aloud, "what in the actual fuck are you doing with the camera?!" 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:18 PM, ALIEN-gunner said:

CBS put the first episode of season 2 on Youtube for free, apparently because the show has a 25-30% approval rating and no one really wants to watch it, me included. What the hell I watched it and it wasn't half bad. It had some really stupid stuff like the forced comedy, lore retconning and unbelievable crew members but it was a pretty good action drama. It's not really "Star Trek" but it's still pretty neat. 

It felt more like Star Trek than season 1 did. 

 

There are are some rumors that these red angels are Spock’s from different time lines, something relating to the red matter from Star Trek 2009. When the season wraps up all time lines will converge, this timeline becoming the Prime Timeline and the Kelvin timeline being erased completely. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, elbobo said:

Did not like this week's at all and the directing was terrible with the constant camera rotations and craning around, just a needlessly busy mess.

 

Last week was Frakes so of course it was great.

 

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

It felt more like Star Trek than season 1 did. 

 

There are are some rumors that these red angels are Spock’s from different time lines, something relating to the red matter from Star Trek 2009. When the season wraps up all time lines will converge, this timeline becoming the Prime Timeline and the Kelvin timeline being erased completely. 

 

I've seen people saying it's the Star Trek Online Iconians. I'm inclined to agree, given how dead-on the resemblance is:

 

[elbobo]

I can't believe they didn't fix the klingon teeth or mouth appliances between seasons, it is clear that the actors still struggle to speak in the makeup.

 

They can obviously do amazing looking full scale makeup and have the actor be able to enunciate because Saru is probably the most precise speaking character on show, now that is Doug Jones who is essentially the Michael Jordan of acting in full makeup but still

[Jason]

3 hours ago, elbobo said:

I can't believe they didn't fix the klingon teeth or mouth appliances between seasons, it is clear that the actors still struggle to speak in the makeup.

 

They can obviously do amazing looking full scale makeup and have the actor be able to enunciate because Saru is probably the most precise speaking character on show, now that is Doug Jones who is essentially the Michael Jordan of acting in full makeup but still

 

It's almost like there were also good practical reasons to keep the TNG/TMP Klingon look.

 

I'm sure the makeup couldn't have been exactly the same even if just because modern cameras would have revealed makeup issues that the cameras they used on DS9 couldn't pick up (like how with the TNG remaster some issues popped up that were never visible in the original because of blurriness/low resolution), but there wasn't anything wrong with the TNG Klingon look the way that wouldn't have held up the way that the TOS Klingon makeup was too outmoded by the time of TMP.

[elbobo]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

 

It's almost like there were also good practical reasons to keep the TNG/TMP Klingon look.

 

I'm sure the makeup couldn't have been exactly the same even if just because modern cameras would have revealed makeup issues that the cameras they used on DS9 couldn't pick up (like how with the TNG remaster some issues popped up that were never visible in the original because of blurriness/low resolution), but there wasn't anything wrong with the TNG Klingon look the way that wouldn't have held up the way that the TOS Klingon makeup was too outmoded by the time of TMP.

 

whatever they used for Worf's make up in the TNG movies looked fine on the big screen and bluray so it should have worked too for discovery in 4k 

[elbobo]

ok one this week, Saru's plot felt very forced though, I will reserve judgment on it till we see where they go with the character 

 

I like the engineer, glad she stuck around. She plays off well with Stamets 

[elbobo]

This show is just all over the place and is barely being held together by Pike. Why oh why did the have to bring back Tyler/Voq he is the worst. Even by trek standards the explanation of how the doctor is alive is full of what.

 

They desperately need to stop making Burnham the main character, they do not need to get rid of her just make it a total ensemble piece where she is just another player on the stage.

 

What is the deal with section 31. In DS9 they are a hyper secretive group that seemingly consists of 3 guys in a room moving chess pieces around and no one knows they exist, on discovery they a large organization with ships and officers that operate more or less in the open and everyone knows about them. Also having S31 be an official organization and having empress space hitler as a high ranking officer in it really undercuts any moral authority starfleet is supposed to have, starfleet is supposed to be overtop eye rolling at times good guys and now they are ok with a genocidal murder in one of their most potentially dangerous divisions. 

[Chairslinger]

33 minutes ago, elbobo said:

This show is just all over the place and is barely being held together by Pike. Why oh why did the have to bring back Tyler/Voq he is the worst. Even by trek standards the explanation of how the doctor is alive is full of what.

 

They desperately need to stop making Burnham the main character, they do not need to get rid of her just make it a total ensemble piece where she is just another player on the stage.

 

What is the deal with section 31. In DS9 they are a hyper secretive group that seemingly consists of 3 guys in a room moving chess pieces around and no one knows they exist, on discovery they a large organization with ships and officers that operate more or less in the open and everyone knows about them. Also having S31 be an official organization and having empress space hitler as a high ranking officer in it really undercuts any moral authority starfleet is supposed to have, starfleet is supposed to be overtop eye rolling at times good guys and now they are ok with a genocidal murder in one of their most potentially dangerous divisions. 

 

 

I noticed this as well, but I wonder if they are playing the same bait and switch that led to the very good plot twist in season 1. You get lured in thinking that Lorca's character flaws are indicative of the writers not understanding Trek, and just when you're starting to like Lorca, they hit you with the twist that explains why he was acting so off in the first place

 

This difference between Section 31 in Discovery and DS9 is somewhat subtle enough that unless you are a hardcore fan you might not appreciate just how incongruous it is. But I agree, if you are steeped in the universe it feels very off.

 

What I am wondering is if maybe they are going to tie in some incident or horrible act that leads to Section 31 going from being a slightly more black ops-y Starfleet Intelligence as it is portrayed in Discovery to being the true buried deep, tightly knit cabal we see in DS9. And it's worth saying that even in DS9 there were winks and nods that a good deal of the higher ups and bureaucracy in Starfleet were aware of 31. Ross indicated in Inter Arma Legas Enim Silent Legas that looking the other way during a 31 plan wasn't the most unheard of thing in the admiralty.

 

I wonder if 31's appearance in Enterprise might add weight to this. While they were certainly out of bounds in their actions, they were relatively tame compared to actions in DS9 and no where near as devious.

 

But yeah, I wonder if they are intentionally selling 31 as a more well known and accepted part of Starfleet(at least relatively, they are still black ops) to set up some horrible actions from Phillipa and crew that causes them to go even further underground and Starfleet to attempt to whitewash them from history leading to the even more secretive group we see in DS9.

 

Anyway, I am liking season 2 so far. Like others, I think Pike is killing it. Star Trek really does work best when it has a strong central character driving the story. It wasn't the worst idea in the world to attempt something different, but Discovery's execution was poor and it just didn't work. I mean, if you are going to try to depart from the Captain-centric format you can't also have a nondescript crew, as well.Plus, if you do it right it can kind of happen organically. Sisko was a strong lead, but the ensemble became strong enough and the space station setting was liberating enough that there were plenty of episodes where Kira, Worf, or even others could carry the show. But, as I said, I think Star Trek works best when you have that one central character to bring everything back around to.

 

On 2/2/2019 at 3:01 PM, Jason said:

I've seen people saying it's the Star Trek Online Iconians. I'm inclined to agree, given how dead-on the resemblance is:

 

 

 

Are ST Online's Iconions the Demons of Air and Darkness, gateway Iconions from TNG/DS9?

 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 10:02 AM, elbobo said:

ok one this week, Saru's plot felt very forced though, I will reserve judgment on it till we see where they go with the character 

 

I like the engineer, glad she stuck around. She plays off well with Stamets 

 

 

I thought that, too. It goes to show that even in a short season, story driven Trek like Discovery has been you can make a character unique, memorable, and enjoyable to watch as long as you make the writing good. In her few short scenes in engineering she distinguished her character more than the majority of the bridge crew did in the whole of the first season. Hell, I remember after her first scene on the asteroid I was thinking, "oh, I hope she sticks around".

 

 

On 2/2/2019 at 1:58 PM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

It felt more like Star Trek than season 1 did. 

 

There are are some rumors that these red angels are Spock’s from different time lines, something relating to the red matter from Star Trek 2009. When the season wraps up all time lines will converge, this timeline becoming the Prime Timeline and the Kelvin timeline being erased completely. 

 

 

I thought it was already confirmed that Discovery was the prime timeline and they were just being coy originally to make the Lorca reveal more surprising.

 

Honestly, while the general contours of that twist seems intriguing, I have a gut-level aversion to anything from the Reboot making it's way into Discovery. They seem to be doing an alright job of finally working Discovery into the Trek grove, connecting it to Star Trek Wars would feel like a step backwards.

 

On 1/25/2019 at 5:52 AM, IdeaOfEvil said:

 

 

It's still Star Trek, so I'm happy that something's out there in the world to watch. But it isn't bullet-proof, and I'd hate to get as sick of this show as I did with Voyager and Enterprise after watching the first season or two back in their day...

 

 

Oh wow, did you ever go back and watch the rest of Enterprise? You left right when it got good as season 3 was very strong, and season 4 remains among the best Trek out there. Right up there with TNG 3-5 and DS9 5-7 imho.

 

 

Long post, but I had to catch up as I decided to let some episodes go up on All Access before starting s2. I will probably watch them as they air going forward, though.

[IdeaOfEvil]

6 hours ago, Chairslinger said:

Oh wow, did you ever go back and watch the rest of Enterprise? You left right when it got good as season 3 was very strong, and season 4 remains among the best Trek out there. Right up there with TNG 3-5 and DS9 5-7 imho.

 

Nah, I never went back to Enterprise. I did watch the series finale to Voyager (which was a big fuckin mess, imo), and I was suffering through so much Star Trek fatigue when Enterprise was on that I never bothered going back to it after....what? episode 4? Especially as I was a TOS fan and I was so sick of Berman and Braga smothering their "TNG is better" crap all over the franchise. It made it worse for me that Enterprise was a prequel that had the same TNG grey uniform colors, the ship had the same saucer shape as TNG, and it had that lame casual crew build of angry people in skin tight outfits (or at least I think so...) from TNG/DS9/Voy instead of being more military. But again, I'm a TOS fan, so those things would only bother such a person, lol

 

I heard in season 3 of Enterprise writers who were Star Trek know-it-alls were hired to bring the show in line with the TOS, but by then it was too late? Or even the show was cancelled that season? I don't know, it just seemed like too much effort for me to put in to a show that wouldn't matter in the long run anyways...

[elbobo]

I would give Enterprise another shot, I watched it for the first time a couple years ago and seasons 3 and 4 and substantially better than the first 2. Season 3 is one of if not the darkest seasons of Trek and it deals with one major plot the entire way through with a couple unconnected side episodes weirdly thrown in.

 

As mentioned season 4 is one of the best seasons of any trek series, you get several well executed 3 episode arcs. it also has one of the worst finales in the history of television, the 2 parter that proceeds it should be the finale and would have worked excellently in that role. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I liked Enterprise. First two seasons were rough, but that was par for the course with Trek. I didn’t think those seasons were worse than how TNG or DS9 started. Though I wished they did not need to jump into timeline manipulation so soon in the series. 

 

Still, I rather enjoyed. Trek series where they aim to function with the idealism of TOS/TNG, but they are less removed from us. A little more relatable, and a little less sci-fi speak. They use screwdrivers and wrenches. 

 

But yeah, seasons 3 and 4 were much better. 4 Especially. Crap series finale though. 

[Jason]

Terra Prime is a great finale, you guys are crazy. 

[dualhunter]

Regarding the Iconians, apparently they were listed on a couple screens in season 1:

 

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Iconian

 

While in TNG the Iconians were supposed to have been wiped out 200,000 years ago, the fact that that dying sphere had memories going back at least a 100,000 years will probably still be relevant.

[elbobo]

oh my god the directors on this show need to calm the fuck down. There was an exposition scene early in the episode where the camera guy was just running nonstop laps around the actors for over a minute for absolutely no reason

 

I'm pretty sure forceably evolving an entire species has to a some kind of violation of the prime directive