Mobile Tim Apple v Tim Epic - update: Apple has terminated Epic’s developer account lololol

[Ghost_MH]

5 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I wasn't aware of this story, but regulators in the Netherlands decided that Apple was in breach of competition rules specifically for dating apps, and that Apple needed to allow third party payment options. Apple has now put out how they will be complying with the order, and they're not taking it lightly. To summarize, if you have a dating app in the Netherlands and want to use your own payment provider, you:

-Must create a new, separate app that is only available in the Netherlands

-You cannot support both Apple's in app payments and a third party one in the app

-Before linking to the third party payment provider, you have to show a screen warning "This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system" in big bold font, along with a disclaimer telling you about the features you're losing by doing this.

-You need to use a single URL for your sign-up page, with no parameters. So you can't pass existing user info or anything else along.

 

That all seems perfectly brutal, but there's an even bigger catch. Even if you don't use Apple's payment system, Apple still expects their cut! Apple is demanding that anyone using a third party payment method log all transactions from iOS devices, and manually pay Apple a 27% commission, after tax.

 

There's not a ton of reporting on this story yet, and not reading the language I can't exactly go through the court ruling and see if Apple is directly violating it and daring the government to come after them, or if they're just pushing their luck as far as possible. Either way, I think Apple has shown their hand in a way that won't be to their advantage. Regardless of how this plays out with dating apps in the Netherlands, you have to imagine the next time the IAP issue comes up in a courtroom and Apple loses, they'll make sure that Apple can't be this restrictive.

 

The whole idea is that Apple is being anti-competitive and creating "unreasonable conditions" by requiring the use of their own IAP system and charging such a high fee. I would have to imagine a court will look at this and argue that this system alleviates none of the concerns that made them rule against Apple in the first place.

 

That's a ridiculous example of malicious compliance. I can't help but feel that's just going to empower and upset European courts.

[TwinIon]

Google is going to allow Spotify to offer their own payment system alongside Google's.

 

This is apparently a trial that is being built on the systems developed for South Korea (where they need to offer this by law). It's only going to be offered in a few countries to start with.

 

Thus far Google has been pretty quiet about details, like what kind of deal Google is offering Spotify, but hopefully it's the start of something bigger.

 

 

[JPDunks4]

Play Fortnite on iOS, iPadOS, Android Phones and Tablets, and Windows PC with Xbox Cloud Gaming for Free - Xbox Wire

NEWS.XBOX.COM

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As part of our mission to bring the joy and community of gaming to players wherever they are and to make gaming more accessible to people around the world, I’m excited to announce that we’ve partnered with Epic Games to make Fortnite available on supported browser-enabled devices for free with Xbox Cloud Gaming (Beta) in […]

 

 

 

So this is actually pretty huge for Microsoft I think.  Big boost to MAU's cause now anyone on Apple Devices wanting to play Fortnite, need a Microsoft account. 

 

And I'd assume they get the % cut of any MTX that's generated through the game on Apple devices, right?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Apple declares 'resounding victory' after decision reached in Epic Games appeal

WWW.CNBC.COM

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An appeals court on Monday mostly sided with Apple over its App Store rules in a suit with Epic Games.

 

Quote

 

An appeals court on Monday mostly sided with Apple over its App Store rules in a suit with Epic Games.

 

The decision signals that Apple’s control over the App Store and the fees it charges likely won’t significantly change as a result of an ongoing legal challenge by Epic Games.

Apple hailed it as a victory.

 

“Today’s decision reaffirms Apple’s resounding victory in this case, with nine of 10 claims having been decided in Apple’s favor,” a company spokesman told CNBC. “For the second time in two years, a federal court has ruled that Apple abides by antitrust laws at the state and federal levels.”

 

[TwinIon]

That actually seems like a very mild loss for Apple, who only appealed because they didn't win on all ten counts, and the appeals court didn't overturn that one count that would force them to allow links to purchase things outside the App Store.

 

Now the big question with all of this will be exactly how they end up handling side-loading in the EU. The rumor is that it's coming this year with iOS 17.

 

iOS 17 to Support App Sideloading to Comply With European Regulations

WWW.MACRUMORS.COM

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Apple in iOS 17 will for the first time allow iPhone users to download apps hosted outside of its official App Store, according to Bloomberg's...

 

That story links to another story that Apple is going to try requiring apps be verified with Apple in order to be available for whatever outside-the-appstore distribution Apple comes up with. That may or may not happen, depending on if Apple's lawyers feel like it will comply with the DMA, but I think the real question will become how strictly Apple is able to contain that feature to EU iPhones.

 

I can imagine scenarios where it's relatively trivial to setup your device in such a way that you can get sideloading outside the EU, but I suspect Apple will do everything in their power to make that as difficult as possible. Reading the text of the DMA it specifies that:

 

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This Regulation shall apply to core platform services provided or offered by gatekeepers to business users established in the Union or end users established or located in the Union, irrespective of the place of establishment or residence of the gatekeepers and irrespective of the law otherwise applicable to the provision of service.

 

To me that means that it should apply if I'm French or if I just happen to be in France. That means they shouldn't be able to force it on a hardware level, since the DMA would apply to iPhones sold outside the EU that are just visiting.

 

So maybe a VPN will be all that it takes, or maybe Apple will come up with some other roundabout way to lock down their devices.

 

Even as someone that has an iPad but not an iPhone, I'm kinda excited by the idea of USB-C and sideloading coming to iPhones. The only sideloaded app I've used in years is the DJI app (which is on the iOS app store, but not the Google Play store), so it's not as if I'm feeling really held back by all this or even think the market will really take advantage of it, but it's fun to see some walls coming down.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The one part of Tim Apple v Tim Epic that Tim Apple didn't win is heading to the SCOTUS:

 

Apple asks US Supreme Court to overthrow ruling in Epic antitrust case

WWW.GAMESINDUSTRY.BIZ

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Sign up for the GI Daily here to get the biggest news straight to your inbox Apple continues to fight against the rulin…

 

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Apple continues to fight against the ruling made two years ago in its antitrust legal battle with Fortnite maker Epic Games.

 

A court filing released yesterday shows the iPhone maker is appealing to the US Supreme Court, requesting that it overrule the original decision that Apple should cease its anti-steering practices preventing developers from directing users to other channels for purchases.

 

Epic sued Apple for anti-competitive practices in 2020 after the latter pulled Fortnite from its App Store over a new update that enabled players to buy V-Bucks directly from the developer, avoiding the 30% cut Apple takes on all transactions.

 

In 2021, the US district court of California rejected nine of out Epic's ten claims, but ruled in the Fortnite firm's favour when it came to anti-steering practices, ordering Apple to enable developers to offer alternative payment options.

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

SCOTUS tells Tim Epic to take a hike (pending the outcome of the ongoing appeal in the lower court)

 

US Supreme Court refuses Epic bid to let App Store order take effect in Apple case

WWW.REUTERS.COM

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The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday dealt a setback to Epic Games, maker of the popular video game "Fortnite," in its legal battle against Apple , declining to let a federal judge's injunction take effect that could force the iPhone maker to change payment practices in its lucrative App Store.

 

Quote

 

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday dealt a setback to Epic Games, maker of the popular video game "Fortnite," in its legal battle against Apple (AAPL.O), declining to let a federal judge's injunction take effect that could force the iPhone maker to change payment practices in its lucrative App Store.

 

Liberal Justice Elena Kagan, acting for the Supreme Court, denied Epic's request to lift a decision by the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that effectively delayed implementing an injunction issued by U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers barring certain App Store rules, while Apple pursues a Supreme Court appeal.

 

The 9th Circuit in April had upheld the injunction but in July put that decision on hold. Kagan handles emergency matters for the Supreme Court arising from a group of states including California.

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

US Supreme Court has had enough of Epic vs. Apple, refuses to hear appeals, Tim Sweeney says the fight to open-up iOS 'is lost… a sad outcome for all developers' | PC Gamer

WWW.PCGAMER.COM

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But vows to fight on anyway.

 

[Brian]

Epic Games says Apple retaliated over lawsuits by banning company's developer account

WWW.CNBC.COM

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Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney said Apple rejected Epic's application for a developer account it would use to launch an app store for iPhones in Europe.

[TwinIon]

And they're unbanned thanks to the EU.

 

I'm open to the idea that Apple should ban Epic for deliberately breaking the rules, but Apple's decision made it seem like it was largely based on Epic's comments on Apple, which is not good at all.