Sony IGN: Bungie Devs Say Atmosphere Is ‘Soul-Crushing’ Amid Layoffs, Cuts, and Fear of Total Sony Takeover

[Paperclyp]

26 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Halo specifically was the first console game to do LAN, if I'm not mistaken.  I brought up splitscreen in that context. 

 

 

So a relative lack of ambition to Halo.  

 

I still don't think we see eye to eye on that.  To me, it's like saying that later GTAs were more ambitious than III.  It’s not totally wrong to say, since on a technical standpoint it's very true, but it also misses the the point of what GTAIII is due and what it did for its time.  Goldeneye is still that game to me, for console shooters.

 

I also think games like Red Faction and Rainbow Six have core elements more ambitious than the others we’ve talked about, even if the whole package doesn't come together as well.

I’m sure there were console games that had LAN prior to Halo, but I would doubt any console game ever came close to the number of people who LAN’d Halo, not only in specific Halo parties but like on your college floor you could just plug the console into the Ethernet and LAN with others on the floor. It was awesome and required less fuss than any game I ever tried. I remember trying to LAN two PS2’s together to play 1 v 1 socom and it probably took us 90 mins to figure it out. Granted, we were morons, but still. We could plug and play halo no problem. 
 

And yeah I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye cuz while I played a lot of goldeneye, that game never felt good to me to play, it felt like more of a great idea and Rare was willing to throw it out there warts and all, and perfect dark in particular was incredible with its options, but as a full package I just felt they overshot to the detriment of the actual experience of playing. In a way I guess you could argue then that those games WERE more ambitious than Halo. But I think I’m getting away from the general point that I was trying to make - like put aside ambition for a moment: 

 

Halo was an incredible game and an amazing package overall from its technical side, art direction, lore that it was putting down, sound, everything. It was a marvel at the time and took the Xbox which, a lot of people thought was kind of a joke, and put it on the map in a huge way. Without halo MS maybe doesn’t make another console period, who knows. It’s just odd to me that some would take that game, THAT game, look at it, and essentially be like yeah that game was ok, it made controls on a console bearable I guess. It was so much more than that. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

11 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I didn’t know about that!  Any of them do 8-player?

I can't remember exactly.  I do recall playing racing games (Wipeout?) that allowed 4 players to play -- 2 on each console.  But its been almost 30 years, and I only used it a handful of times.

[AbsolutSurgen]

5 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

I’m sure there were console games that had LAN prior to Halo, but I would doubt any console game ever came close to the number of people who LAN’d Halo, not only in specific Halo parties but like on your college floor you could just plug the console into the Ethernet and LAN with others on the floor. It was awesome and required less fuss than any game I ever tried. I remember trying to LAN two PS2’s together to play 1 v 1 socom and it probably took us 90 mins to figure it out. Granted, we were morons, but still. We could plug and play halo no problem. 
 

And yeah I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye cuz while I played a lot of goldeneye, that game never felt good to me to play, it felt like more of a great idea and Rare was willing to throw it out there warts and all, and perfect dark in particular was incredible with its options, but as a full package I just felt they overshot to the detriment of the actual experience of playing. In a way I guess you could argue then that those games WERE more ambitious than Halo. But I think I’m getting away from the general point that I was trying to make - like put aside ambition for a moment: 

 

Halo was an incredible game and an amazing package overall from its technical side, art direction, lore that it was putting down, sound, everything. It was a marvel at the time and took the Xbox which, a lot of people thought was kind of a joke, and put it on the map in a huge way. Without halo MS maybe doesn’t make another console period, who knows. It’s just odd to me that some would take that game, THAT game, look at it, and essentially be like yeah that game was ok, it made controls on a console bearable I guess. It was so much more than that. 

I don't know the numbers, but my friends in res played a lot of 90s computer shooters over their University's LANs.  Those guys were mostly CompSci students, so I don't know truly widespread it was -- but there were a lot of them the times I visited.

Why weren't you playing Socom online?  I don't think I ever went into the single player of that game.

[crispy4000]

27 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

And yeah I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye cuz while I played a lot of goldeneye, that game never felt good to me to play, it felt like more of a great idea and Rare was willing to throw it out there warts and all, and perfect dark in particular was incredible with its options, but as a full package I just felt they overshot to the detriment of the actual experience of playing. In a way I guess you could argue then that those games WERE more ambitious than Halo. But I think I’m getting away from the general point that I was trying to make - like put aside ambition for a moment: 

 

Halo was an incredible game and an amazing package overall from its technical side, art direction, lore that it was putting down, sound, everything. It was a marvel at the time and took the Xbox which, a lot of people thought was kind of a joke, and put it on the map in a huge way. Without halo MS maybe doesn’t make another console period, who knows. It’s just odd to me that some would take that game, THAT game, look at it, and essentially be like yeah that game was ok, it made controls on a console bearable I guess. It was so much more than that. 

 

It’s fair to say that the N64 and PlayStation, like in other genres, weren’t the most adept platforms for FPSs that played well.  Too many frame dips, multiplayer especially could be a slideshow, controllers not best suited to it, etc.  That unreleased 60-FPS 360 port of Goldeneye still shows that the core of it is still very good IMO, taken off the shackles of hardware of the time.  I loved the campaign, but know I won’t be able to convince you personally its great.

 

There’s no underselling what Halo did for Xbox at the time.  I think it also holds up quite nice visually for a game of its time, one of the very best that whole generation.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That was so excited when the new Doom reboot came out -- it gave me hope (apparently false hope) that FPS games would return to their roots and give us the kind of experiences we enjoyed in the late 90s.  A world where controls were crisp, the action was fast, we could carry as many weapons as we wanted and we didn't stop and hide so health would "regen".

 

Indie boomer shooters are plentiful.  But you’re right about the AAA space lacking those sort of shooters today.

 

You can join those of us wanting more AAA 3D platformers and arcade sports games.

[AbsolutSurgen]

7 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It’s fair to say that the N64 and PlayStation, like in other genres, weren’t the most adept platforms for FPSs that played well.  Too many frame dips, multiplayer could be a slideshow, controllers not best suited to it, etc.  That unreleased 60-FPS 360 port of Goldeneye still shows that the core of it is still very good IMO, taken off the shackles of hardware of the time.  I loved the campaign, but know I won’t be able to convince you personally its great.

 

There’s no underselling what Halo did for Xbox at the time.  I think it also holds up quite nice visually for a game of its time, one of the very best that whole generation.

It wasn't until midway through the PS3/X360 era that PC and console gaming truly started to converge.

Yes, consoles did receive ports of big PC games before then -- but most of them were, IMHO, hot trash.  [PCs were also not the place to play console-style games in that era.]

 

Halo was a very good game.

Visually?  I would have to go back and look.  At the time, there were other games that I thought were better (i.e. some of Kojima's work was astounding on PS2).

[SaysWho?]

18 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

they lose their autonomy, developing only what Sony approves, and drop both Xbox and PC communities. Larger publishers take less risks and are less willing to let a studio “fix it” or “turn it around” if they have full control. 

 

I doubt they'd drop both communities, particularly PC. These games are live service and need bigger communities.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Halo was a very good game.

Visually?  I would have to go back and look.  At the time, there were other games that I thought were better (i.e. some of Kojima's work was astounding on PS2).

 

Said one of the best holding up visually.  The original Halo is more simplistic looking than other shooters that generation (it was a launch game), but the art style and lighting model they employed looks a lot cleaner today than many games later in the generation.

 

Only real knock I have against it was that it wasn't 60fps.  Other shooters that gen got there, but also didn't have the same focus on open environments.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

20 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I doubt they'd drop both communities, particularly PC. These games are live service and need bigger communities.

probably right for D2. Though I can see the return to PlayStation exclusive content to make the PS version a “better value”. But I then new games wouldn’t go day and date on everything. PS day one, PC 3 years later, and Xbox never. 
 

sure they’ve released some games on PC. But Ghosts of Tsushima when? PC players still waiting for Bloodborne. No Gran Turismo. Sony has been very selective on what goes to PC and those that have so far have been a long wait. I just don’t trust them to do anything other than withhold. 

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I don't know the numbers, but my friends in res played a lot of 90s computer shooters over their University's LANs.  Those guys were mostly CompSci students, so I don't know truly widespread it was -- but there were a lot of them the times I visited.

Why weren't you playing Socom online?  I don't think I ever went into the single player of that game.

Oh we were playing it online a lot too but we were just trying to set up some 1 v 1 at a buddies place that didn’t have good internet. It was just like a one time thing. 
 

The bulk of my initial online gaming was socom 1-2. 

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It’s fair to say that the N64 and PlayStation, like in other genres, weren’t the most adept platforms for FPSs that played well.  Too many frame dips, multiplayer especially could be a slideshow, controllers not best suited to it, etc.  That unreleased 60-FPS 360 port of Goldeneye still shows that the core of it is still very good IMO, taken off the shackles of hardware of the time.  I loved the campaign, but know I won’t be able to convince you personally its great.

 

There’s no underselling what Halo did for Xbox at the time.  I think it also holds up quite nice visually for a game of its time, one of the very best that whole generation.

I agree actually. When I was able to play that PD remake on the 360 with dual analog controls I was surprised at how well it played. 

[SaysWho?]

10 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

probably right for D2. Though I can see the return to PlayStation exclusive content to make the PS version a “better value”. But I then new games wouldn’t go day and date on everything. PS day one, PC 3 years later, and Xbox never. 
 

sure they’ve released some games on PC. But Ghosts of Tsushima when? PC players still waiting for Bloodborne. No Gran Turismo. Sony has been very selective on what goes to PC and those that have so far have been a long wait. I just don’t trust them to do anything other than withhold. 

 

GoT/BB aren't long-term GaaS games. GT sure, but it never had much of a presence outside PS.

 

Bungie has a multi-plat history, and there's no doubt in my mind that their stuff would, at a minimum, come to PC. 

[Brian]

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

GoT/BB aren't long-term GaaS games. GT sure, but it never had much of a presence outside PS.

 

Bungie has a multi-plat history, and there's no doubt in my mind that their stuff would, at a minimum, come to PC. 

The growth both companies need to generate to justify the recent investment spree, I think you will definitely see a hybrid approach moving forward. Single player games like GoW, Starfield, etc will remain exclusive. GaaS/MP type games I think will be more broadly distributed across platforms with the main platform holder having some exclusive DLC. 

[crispy4000]

31 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

sure they’ve released some games on PC. But Ghosts of Tsushima when? PC players still waiting for Bloodborne. No Gran Turismo. Sony has been very selective on what goes to PC and those that have so far have been a long wait. I just don’t trust them to do anything other than withhold. 

 

Everyone's already waiting on a Bloodborne remaster, to be fair.

 

Sony's rolling out their library selectively, but judging by the rushed job on TLOU1, I wouldn't want them to speed up the process just to be faster.  They've acquired Nixxes, let them do their thing in time so that we actually get good ports.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

20 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Everyone's already waiting on a Bloodborne remaster, to be fair.

 

Sony's rolling out their library selectively, but judging by the rushed job on TLOU1, I wouldn't want them to speed up the process just to be faster.  They've acquired Nixxes, let them do their thing in time so that we actually get good ports.

well in the adage of “you can have it right or you can have it now, but you can’t have it right now”, Sony didn’t exactly deliver on either with TLOU 1. lol 

 

58 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

GoT/BB aren't long-term GaaS games. GT sure, but it never had much of a presence outside PS.

 it’s never had much presence outside of PS because it’s only ever been on PS. But it has huge brand recognition. with cross play a PC version would have access to one of the largest racing communities online.