legend

I fully plan on discussing it once I get a chance to play it, much like I did for the demo

It's not even clear it's censored instead of just an artistic choice. The lace is pretty and see through, and various other outfits still have all out cleavage. You know you're fucked when even this release of Stellar Blade isn't sexualized enough for you.

This is the best thread on the citadel.

We should just drop it. Your life is going to be hard enough as it is when ChatGPT is already exceeding your reading comprehension and ability to grasp analogies.

You can have both. Bear in mind this whole discussion started because I said I think in the context of Stellar Blade, Eve is fine -- the game is deliberately over the top in all aspects. It's not fine when it's demanded to be universal in all games and inserted into places it doesn't belong. If only I could think of an analogy for it being inserted in places it doesn't belong...

If only there were a record of the conversation that would allow you find the context. Guess we'll never know.

I brought up Arwen. Liv and Cate are indeed beautiful. The point being made in that comment wasn't that they were not beautiful, it's that it would look stupid if they were running around in bikinis. It was contrasting the difference between have attractive characters and having overly sexualized characters in a setting that doesn't make sense. That they are beautiful, but not sexualized and that the former works but the latter doesn't in that story was the point.

This game is awesome and only $7. It's in early access, but it plays completely fine from my couple of hours. Its' a rogue like, but it has persistent Diablo-like loot you collect. You also get what are effectively boons from different gods who have short chats with you ala Hades. And finally, the mobs feel very Vampire Survivors-like. Get this game.

$350 for a 42" is fucking nuts. Making me wonder if I should get one as a work screen!

I appreciate the concession! Your statement was "Some examples of western developed games with female characters in them that seem to have been deliberately made less attractive looking" which claims a motive of the developers to make their female character less attractive. That's simply not it in any meaningful capacity (I'm sure we can find *some* games where the character by design is unattractive, but that's not a meaningful trend and not the case for many of the games you cited). There are far more benign reasons than an intent to make characters less attractive, such as some of the things I enumerated in my earlier response. Ooph. My man, you have no idea. The amount of shit developers get is legendary. And to top if off, they work incredibly long hours, for often comparably low pay to other fields, and then get laid off when the game they put the whole lives into was successful, because the execs need to report "growth" every quarter for shareholders over the people who bled for it and laying people off is the easy way for them to do it.

Looking like the character is not proof. 1. Writers don't direct the art, nor create the character models. 2. There is a credited model for the actual character, who is so much the actual model, she got toxic attacks for it. 3. Insomniac directly confirmed that they used the same model for the appearance as the first, because of the false accusations. All facts point to it not being the writer. Clinging to "no, it has to be her because she looks like her, all official sources must be lying" is not proof of anything. It's conspiracy theory. That's the essence of the whole point: you're leaping to a false accusation on flimsy grounds for this belief in general, although this instance is particularly acute. You can prefer characters to look however you want, but making baseless accusations about the motivations of developers just because you don't like it really isn't cool. Especially not when developers are treated like absolute shit for all the hard work they put in. Don't pile this nonsense on top.

Both width and length are a problem. Sit at window and lack of length makes it a major pain to get out. Sit on aisle and the attendants will smash into you all the time from lack of width. Put a bag under the front seat, say good bye to stretching your legs assuming you can fit it in.

Maybe a side benefit is if this discourages them from these tactics to always get completely full flights we will not have to run into the nonsense about there not being enough room for carry on luggage. Airplanes are so fucking cramped it's a nightmare.

I'm so glad to hear it's polished and performs well. Goes a long way for an action game like this.

Wade beat me to the reviews! Looks good! Coupled with the demo which I enjoyed, I'll definitely be picking it up.

Yes, I did go back edit that in to acknowledge that you said "less attractive," but too late it seems! I realize that's softer, but it is still is a wrong claim for the exact same reasons. Holy crap man, that video *is not* proof! That is a person speculating, speculation that goes directly against the actual facts. This is conspiracy level nonsense. The developers have already come out and said it's the same model and that same model publicly stated that she *quit* because of the backlash She's not a make believe person.

This is too long a list go down one by one, but let me give you a general response that covers a lot of it: these devs are not deliberately making characters ugly, but here are some things you may be conflating with that belief: The industry much more regularly uses scanning tech for characters for actual actors/models. Most real world people are not the hyper exaggerated female appearance like we agreed is less prolific. Furthermore, we both agreed they're not as sexualized as previously; they're not wearing night party making all the time nor wearing skimpy clothing. So you *do* get a difference there. But that doesn't make them *ugly* (I realize you've made the softer "less attractive" claim) and saying as much is pretty gross. Coupled with the above, some of the issues you have may be due to immaturity of technology not translating well. It's more of a tech problem from games than a deliberate effort to make models ugly, especially if you cherry pick scenes since in games it's incredibly difficult to make sure every scene lights and renders well. If you know game developers or at least follow game developers on social media, you will find them commenting about these problems and challenges. Some studios are better at it than others or invest more time and money into it. Games are expensive and despite working insane hours, developers *still* don't have enough time and get readily laid off anyway. You need to give people some slack instead of forming a conspiracy that they're deliberately making characters less attractive. When you scan models, sometimes those models change in appearance while the developers still want to keep the same person. MJ in Spider-man 2, who you listed, is the same model as in Spider-man 1. But the gaming community yelling about studios "deliberately making female characters ugly" just assumed they got someone different because they're woke or something. They didn't. There's rumors that she did have some facial surgery from an accident, I don't really know and it doesn't really matter. The point is, the claim "deliberately making characters ugly" from this crowd was a completely false accusation (so is "less attractive" because although softer is still peddling the same negative conspiracy) and the result of that gross behavior is the model quit modeling and working for games because it became so toxic.

This is probably the only non-corrupt reason for it and I am somewhat sympathetic to it. If people regularly joined a company inexperienced, were trained, and then quickly left for another company, the outcome would be that companies would stop hiring inexperienced workers, which would be an absolutely awful defect-defect equilibrium for society. However, I don't think this is all that regular. If you're good to your employee, they will probably want to stay with you because consistency is convenient. If you treat your employee badly (bad compensation, bad management), then you really only have yourself to blame.

I do agree with sexualization deliberately being less overt. I do not agree that they're deliberately making the characters less attractive in any meaningful capacity. I mean, you just named a lot of attractive female characters! But the argument from a certain community that I'm referring to is much stronger than even that. These people are saying western developers are deliberately making their female characters *ugly* because the standard that they demand is oversexualized women like Eve. Hence why I think Stellar Blade is a victim of people associating their distaste for this community with the game. I think the game is perfectly fine (at least from what I've played and seen so far!) and it shouldn't be knocked just because a distasteful community likes it.

Okay. I answered that separately. Your points about Horizon character attractiveness doesn't seem like you responded to that though. Does the analogy I made to you not make sense to you? I cut it out to highlight for you that you were repeating exactly what I said. Here's the full quote which we can read in context: Notice how following my request to qualify what you meant I provided possible interpretations you could have meant? This is indicated by ending them with questions marks. I then state "Yes, I agree with that and yes I think that's a good thing." Following that I described what interpretation I wouldn't agree with. Specifically "But no, I don't think the industry is otherwise lacking attractive female characters." If in fact, you actually meant the thing I said I agreed with, you could can just say "yes, that's what I meant." You also wouldn't need to tell me "but let's not pretend it hasn't happened" if in fact you agreed with my description, because clearly I wouldn't be pretending something was true that you disputed. But you did say that, indicating you didn't agree with what I said. And here we are.

So then were you not disagreeing with my original point where I said just that then? If you agree, great! But then I'm not sure what contrasting point you were trying to make.

I'm responding to what you wrote, in two different places. Hence, why I quoted you in two places and responded to each separately

Let me give an analogy. It would have looked dumb as shit if in the LOTR movies Arwen was running around in a bikini. Fantastical settings doesn't mean unserious in this way. This Horizon doesn't have attractive women?

I'm largely okay and can even enjoy over the top sex appeal for the same reason I can enjoy B movies. When Eve is pulled out of the pod in the beginning in the most over the top sexy way, it's good fun and you can laugh and enjoy it. You're going to have to qualify what you specifically mean. Fewer women with completely oversized boobs in tiny armor in an otherwise "serious" game? Less out of place fan service? Yes, I agree with that and yes I think that's a good thing. But no, I don't think the industry is otherwise lacking attractive female characters.

I think this game is a victim of the fact that it's liked by people insisting that western devs are deliberately making female characters ugly and insisting that all women in games should look like super models. Those people suck, but I think it's making a lot of people hate on this game merely because it's liked by those people.