PC Tech A couple of PC parts questions. [edit] Now with setup questions.

[Jason]

I'm looking at possibly building myself a new computer. Looking at what what jwheel picked out in December as a starting point, I'm wondering about:

 

Is there any reason I can't just use the 850W power supply I already have? I'm not sure if I still have all the cables it came with but I assume buying missing cables is cheaper than buying a whole new PSU but I'm not sure there's been stuff like new connector types since I bought it 10 years ago.

 

Thoughts on a 4070 Super 12 GB vs a 4070 Ti Super 16 GB for $240 more? I'd be doing 1440p for now, and from what I understand 12GB is very comfortable for 1440p and fine for 4K for now but may be a problem in the future. But not sure how much future proofing the extra 4GB actually gets me on 4K ability vs would I just want to buy a new graphics card anyhow by the time the extra 4GB would matter. (I'm looking at buying the graphics card from Dell because I have $600 in Dell credits I could use.)

[AbsolutSurgen]

I wouldn't use a 10-year old PSU in a new build.  That's at about the lifetime that you could expect out of it.

 

Buy the best video card that fits in your Budget.  Future proofing is a mugs game.

[Jason]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I wouldn't use a 10-year old PSU in a new build.  That's at about the lifetime that you could expect out of it.

 

I bought the PSU to put in a rig to fuck around with dogecoin mining back in late 2013 and only used it for like three months before I stopped. So while it's old it's barely used, it that changes your opinion. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

17 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

I bought the PSU to put in a rig to fuck around with dogecoin mining back in late 2013 and only used it for like three months before I stopped. So while it's old it's barely used, it that changes your opinion. 

I know that the capacitors will degrade over time, even if they aren’t used. No idea of how long your PSU will last. 
I would look into the cost of sourcing the PSU cables you need as part of your decision making process. 

[cusideabelincoln]

The non-Ti is a slightly better value. 12GB of VRAM will start falling off after the console refresh cycle happens, but should hold its own as the current consoles give devs access to about 12GB of VRAM so that's what cross-platform games will target.

 

That appears to be a quality Seasonic-made unit, so it will probably be fine to use but be prepared to get a new one. You will know if it's bad if you get crashes while gaming or some other high-powered load.  If you go with an AMD CPU they require less power which should help, and the 4070 also doesn't use much power either.

 

So, while I haven't searched for the absolute best value parts, something like this:

 

Just a moment...

PCPARTPICKER.COM

 

[Jason]

16 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

The non-Ti is a slightly better value. 12GB of VRAM will start falling off after the console refresh cycle happens, but should hold its own as the current consoles give devs access to about 12GB of VRAM so that's what cross-platform games will target.

 

That appears to be a quality Seasonic-made unit, so it will probably be fine to use but be prepared to get a new one. You will know if it's bad if you get crashes while gaming or some other high-powered load.  If you go with an AMD CPU they require less power which should help, and the 4070 also doesn't use much power either.

 

So, while I haven't searched for the absolute best value parts, something like this:

 

Just a moment...

PCPARTPICKER.COM

 

 

To @AbsolutSurgen's point about looking at the price of the cables, seems like the simplest thing to do would be to just buy a complete set of power supply cables and looking at prices it looks like buying something that's not a random Amazon chinesium brand would cost enough just buying a new PSU probably makes more sense. And at that point I'd spend a few extra bucks for an 850W power supply so I have some power overhead.

 

Your link to PC part picker says the AMD CPU you picked needs a CPU cooler...but also I'm not really sure what the pro/con space is here. From a bit of Googling around it seems like Intel has better performance for video decoding, and I would hook up my PC to my TV so that's relevant to me. But it sounds like Intel is at the end of the line for its current socket whereas the current AMD socket should be supported for a while? But then that's trying to future proof which like with the video card maybe isn't worth it.

 

Paring back jwheel's list for things I already have and adjusting a couple of things (case, an SSD, adding in an 850W PSU and upping the RAM) I get here. But I'm unclear if I need the case fans and that expensive of a CPU cooler and I also specifically do not want RGB bling, my computer is in my bedroom so I want the thing to emit as little light as possible.

[cusideabelincoln]

Oh yeah, I forgot a cooler. You can get a good air cooler for $40+ or a liquid cooler for around $100. You don't need to spend much, in fact most of the price of spending more is really about making it look cool with RGB and stuff.

 

Video decoding will be handled by the GPU. The Intel processor will be better if you do productivity that needs more cores, like video editing and such. I'd lean more towards the AMD CPU for your situation, and it's also rumored the next gen of AMD CPUs are going to be a big improvement and should be compatible with the motherboard. The motherboard has multiple PCIE 5.0 slots (one for an SSD, one for a GPU) in case that becomes relevant in the future.

 

Revised list:

Just a moment...

PCPARTPICKER.COM

 

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Oh yeah, I forgot a cooler. You can get a good air cooler for $40+ or a liquid cooler for around $100. You don't need to spend much, in fact most of the price of spending more is really about making it look cool with RGB and stuff.

 

Video decoding will be handled by the GPU. The Intel processor will be better if you do productivity that needs more cores, like video editing and such. I'd lean more towards the AMD CPU for your situation, and it's also rumored the next gen of AMD CPUs are going to be a big improvement and should be compatible with the motherboard. The motherboard has multiple PCIE 5.0 slots (one for an SSD, one for a GPU) in case that becomes relevant in the future.

 

Revised list:

Just a moment...

PCPARTPICKER.COM

 

 

Ah okay it sounded like the the Intel might be better for stuff like watching Plex too but maybe I was misunderstanding what I was reading.

 

The Asus page for that motherboard says 1x PCIE 5.0 M.2 and 2x PCIE 4.0 M.2, so the 5.0 for the GPU, one 4.0 for the SSD, and then if I add an extra SSD later that's the other 4.0 slot?

[cusideabelincoln]

There should be no difference between CPUs for just watching videos.

 

Oh and oops, I picked the wrong board. This one would be better, but yes either one supports at least 3 fast SSDs:

 

Just a moment...

PCPARTPICKER.COM

 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Ah okay it sounded like the the Intel might be better for stuff like watching Plex too but maybe I was misunderstanding what I was reading.

 

The Asus page for that motherboard says 1x PCIE 5.0 M.2 and 2x PCIE 4.0 M.2, so the 5.0 for the GPU, one 4.0 for the SSD, and then if I add an extra SSD later that's the other 4.0 slot?

No.  Each of the m.2 are for SSDs.  There is a separate slot for the GPU.

[Jason]

Any meaningful difference between the PNY 4070 Super I originally linked to and this MSI one? Or is one of PNY or MSI just better than the other company in general? The PNY 12 GB 4070 Super I linked to in the OP went out of stock at Dell before I was able to order.

 

@cusideabelincoln @AbsolutSurgen @Spork3245

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Any meaningful difference between the PNY 4070 Super I originally linked to and this MSI one? Or is one of PNY or MSI just better than the other company in general? The PNY 12 GB 4070 Super I linked to in the OP went out of stock at Dell before I was able to order.

 

@cusideabelincoln @AbsolutSurgen @Spork3245

My perspective is that any minor differences in clock speeds are not noticeable in real life use.  The best GPU is the one you can actually buy.

I don't have any experience with PNY GPUs.  (The MSI 1070 in my old gaming PC from 2016 is still going strong though!)

[cusideabelincoln]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Any meaningful difference between the PNY 4070 Super I originally linked to and this MSI one? Or is one of PNY or MSI just better than the other company in general? The PNY 12 GB 4070 Super I linked to in the OP went out of stock at Dell before I was able to order.

 

@cusideabelincoln @AbsolutSurgen @Spork3245

 

There's basically no difference. MSI is one of the bigger dealers in video cards, but their quality is not necessarily better. Any manufacturer can make a dud card, and I'd wager the quality control on how they are assembled is the bigger difference between these two cards because their reference design is practically identical.

[Spork3245]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Any meaningful difference between the PNY 4070 Super I originally linked to and this MSI one? Or is one of PNY or MSI just better than the other company in general? The PNY 12 GB 4070 Super I linked to in the OP went out of stock at Dell before I was able to order.

 

@cusideabelincoln @AbsolutSurgen @Spork3245

 

The MSI one is pre-OCed a bit higher, but there's not going to be any noticeable difference from that (like, less than 1%). Besides that, the only difference between brands for video cards for the actual cards themself is basically just the cooler design + RGB (and just aesthetically more often than not). Beyond that, you're looking at the customer service difference which will vary by company. I'd just get whatever is cheaper: PNY has been around forever and is one of nVidia's oldest AIB partners - I've delt with their CS before and it was an easy experience. Only brand I tend to avoid for GPUs is Zotac as I've heard horror stories about their CS over the years.

[Jason]

Thanks @cusideabelincoln @AbsolutSurgen @Spork3245, got that order placed, it'll work out to only $3 out of pocket for me. Now on to ordering the rest of the parts cuside curated for me, just wanted to make sure I had the GPU locked in before ordering the rest of the parts.

[Jason]

Sweet, I already have a 2 TB Samsung 980 Pro ready to use so pulled that from cuside's list, so with tax everything comes out to about $1100.  I could use a new monitor too but I'll leave that for when my Dell credits for Amex reset in July so I have another $600 to play with. Thanks again guys!

[Jason]

fffuuu, looks like I'll have everything tomorrow...except for the CPU cooler

[Jason]

It's okay to install the CPU cooler at the end right? Maybe I could at least get everything else set up and then just plop in the CPU cooler when it arrives. 

[cusideabelincoln]

If your case has a cutout so that you can access the back of the motherboard, you can install the cooler later albeit a bit more difficult. You have to change some brackets on the motherboard, and it's definitely easier to do this outside of the case.

[Spork3245]

10 hours ago, Jason said:

It's okay to install the CPU cooler at the end right? Maybe I could at least get everything else set up and then just plop in the CPU cooler when it arrives. 

 

8 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

If your case has a cutout so that you can access the back of the motherboard, you can install the cooler later albeit a bit more difficult. You have to change some brackets on the motherboard, and it's definitely easier to do this outside of the case.

AM5 is essentially the same as AM4 for cooler brackets, isn’t it? The change should be on the cooler itself to the AMD hook-things, shouldn’t need to apply anything to the back of the motherboard itself unless I’m missing something…?

[cusideabelincoln]

16 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

AM5 is essentially the same as AM4 for cooler brackets, isn’t it? The change should be on the cooler itself to the AMD hook-things, shouldn’t need to apply anything to the back of the motherboard itself unless I’m missing something…?

 

It's the same, so rear-side access makes it easier keep the stock backplate in place as he swaps from the stock cooler brackets to the aftermarket brackets. It's perfectly doable when the motherboard is inside the case, but obviously easier otherwise.

[Spork3245]

1 hour ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

It's the same, so rear-side access makes it easier keep the stock backplate in place as he swaps from the stock cooler brackets to the aftermarket brackets. It's perfectly doable when the motherboard is inside the case, but obviously easier otherwise.

I’m still confused here - on my Corsair coolers you swap the bracket on the cooler itself (as the Intel one is installed by default: it just pulls off and you click the AMD one on), there’s nothing to swap on the motherboard and no need to access the back. On some Intel boards I’ve needed access to the back of the motherboard to install a bracket, however.

[Spork3245]

3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I’m still confused here - on my Corsair coolers you swap the bracket on the cooler itself (as the Intel one is installed by default: it just pulls off and you click the AMD one on), there’s nothing to swap on the motherboard and no need to access the back. On some Intel boards I’ve needed access to the back of the motherboard to install a bracket, however.

I guess where I’m confused is that AM4/AM5 has those big plastic hook-things that coolers attached to, and most of the motherboards lack any type of hole to install a back-bracket. Are there coolers that require you to remove those plastic hook mounts? I thought they were universal.

[cusideabelincoln]

3 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

I guess where I’m confused is that AM4/AM5 has those big plastic hook-things that coolers attached to, and most of the motherboards lack any type of hole to install a back-bracket. Are there coolers that require you to remove those plastic hook mounts? I thought they were universal.

 

Ah, no they aren't universal. They can be, but a lot of coolers require you to take it off. Then they have you screw new brackets into the backplate, and those new motherboard brackets attach to the adapter brackets on the heatsink. I guess bracket isn't a very precise term here, but some require this method:

 

 

[Jason]

I guess I'll leave building until I have everything then. The new ETA is tomorrow but I also got an email saying I'll get a refund if it's not here tomorrow, which seems like a bad sign for it actually making it.

[Jason]

Starting to poke around a little bit. Is this a heatsink for the SSD and if so I presumably don't need to put it back on if my SSD already has one? 

 

 

[Jason]

The screws don't even reach to the mount with the SSD in so whatever it is I'm guessing I don't need to use it. Saw a setup video for the mobo where the guy put it back after putting the SSD in but he didn't say anything about what it is. It does have a adhesive strip on the other side that he pulled off first. 

[Jason]

Another one. These are standoff pins right? If so...this is all the standoff pins the mobo came with???

 

[cusideabelincoln]

You don't have to use that heatsink if your SSD comes with one. Although you could take the SSD heatsink off and replace it if its significantly smaller than the motherboard-provided one to get better cooling. I do believe under heavy read/writes the WD Black SSD will throttle because it gets too hot with the stock simple heatsink.

 

 

And those look like SSD standoffs. The case should provide motherboard standoffs, which are probably pre-installed.

[Jason]

4 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

You don't have to use that heatsink if your SSD comes with one. Although you could take the SSD heatsink off and replace it if its significantly smaller than the motherboard-provided one to get better cooling. I do believe under heavy read/writes the WD Black SSD will throttle because it gets too hot with the stock simple heatsink.

 

 

And those look like SSD standoffs. The case should provide motherboard standoffs, which are probably pre-installed.

 

The SSD is a Samsung 980 Pro with heatsink, not sure how good that included heatsink is.

 

The SSD slot has its own little plastic lever tab to secure the SSD so would seem like I don't need the standoff since that seems like it's already a standoff? Not sure why the mobo came with SSD standoffs if it's got these tabs though.

 

 

Also for the SSD, presumably I should place it in one of the NVME PCIe 4 slots instead of the 5 slot for if I get a NVME PCIe 5 SSD down the line, but the area for the 4 SSDs has got one long heatsink covering two slots so if I did that and add another NVME PCIe 4 slot I'd guess I'd need to also get another SSD with its own good heatsink or remove the one on my Samsung so I could use the mobo one for moth?

 

And on the case I was gonna use the last mobo I had in there was smaller than the new one so it looks like I took out some of the standoffs for the previous build. And now I don't know where they are or if I still have the screws to secure the motherboard to them either. Maybe I should have just bought a new case after all. The one you linked to looks nice and easy to work with but I'd rather just have a metal side than the glass panel...but it looks like most cases have a glass panel now? Anything comparable come to mind that would just not have the glass side?

 

[Jason]

Well either a new case or just buy this I guess?

[Jason]

I like how this case looks, some pictures show a glass panel and some don't so it seems like the glass panel is optional? This one with the mesh side also looks okay, I prefer the plain black front of the first one to the wood paneling on this one but this seems like it may have better airflow?

[cusideabelincoln]

The 980 Pro heatsink looks more than adequate, so I'd leave the mobo heatsink off.

 

I'd also leave the PCIe 5.0 slot open for future use.

 

Most new cases do have glass panels, but there are a few standard ones. There are a lot of options that are easy to build in and at various sizes. Even a lot of compact cases are pretty easy to build in, but you would need a mini-ITX board. I'd be concerned about cooling with the Fractal Design Silent option though, looks like it only has 1 exhaust fan.

[Jason]

Just now, cusideabelincoln said:

The 980 Pro heatsink looks more than adequate, so I'd leave the mobo heatsink off.

 

I'd also leave the PCIe 5.0 slot open for future use.

 

Most new cases do have glass panels, but there are a few standard ones. There are a lot of options that are easy to build in and at various sizes. Even a lot of compact cases are pretty easy to build in, but you would need a mini-ITX board. I'd be concerned about cooling with the Fractal Design Silent option though, looks like it only has 1 exhaust fan.

 

What about this other one by the same company, Fractal Design Pop Air Mid-Tower Case, which is similar to the first one, first one has no RGB lighting in the fans and this one does but I can turn the lights off right?

[AbsolutSurgen]

13 hours ago, Jason said:

Starting to poke around a little bit. Is this a heatsink for the SSD and if so I presumably don't need to put it back on if my SSD already has one? 

 

 

PCIe 4.0 SSSs need a heatsink, there really is no practical difference whether you use the one on the motherboard, or the one provided by Samsung.  They're both more than good enough.

That said, I always buy mine without, as I have a MB that has heatsinks, and its cheaper to buy an SSD without one installed.

For practical purposes, it doesn't matter which slot you install the SSD in.  If there was something that actually benefitted from a PCIe 5.0 drive in the forseeable future (which I doubt), you could always move your drive to a different slot later.

 

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I like how this case looks, some pictures show a glass panel and some don't so it seems like the glass panel is optional? This one with the mesh side also looks okay, I prefer the plain black front of the first one to the wood paneling on this one but this seems like it may have better airflow?

Cases are mostly about how easy they are to build in, and an aesthetic choice. 

Cheaper ones sometimes come with far fewer fans than I would be comfortable with (i.e. you should probably buy more fans if you intend on using them).