PC “You a—holes”: Court docs reveal Tim Epic's anger at Steam’s 30% fees

[AbsolutSurgen]

54 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Their storefront isn’t a monopoly, but their client is.  Enough to the point that if you don’t put your PC game on Steam, its probably sending it out to die on computers.  Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft have given in now as a result: they can’t miss out on Steam’s user base.  
 

Valve made the forward thinking decision to let other storefronts sell Steam keys, and their client remained the point of contact the vast majority of PC gamers interact with regularly.  Naturally that promotes their storefront ahead of all others, as does their client’s economy.  It’s why even someone price saavy like you still gives them 20% and not 0%.

Ubisoft doesn't launch their games on Steam -- there is an exclusivity period on EGS.

here are still lots of big "blackhole" games not on Steam.  Roblox and Fortnight that pop into my head.

There are tons of games on Roblox that do exceedingly well as FTP.  They don't get much attention here, but their concurrent player counts are exceptionally high.  As I type this Brookhaven (683k) and Blox Fruits (513k) would be the #2 and #3 games ranked on concurrent users if they were on Steam.

54 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

PC games still are cheaper, generally.  But I don’t think anyone here is arguing game prices would go down if the royalty cut was less.  Epic’s store is evidence to that, with the largest discounts being the occasional coupons subsidized by Epic themselves.  So are the sweetheart deals Valve offers - games that succeed enough to reach those high benchmarks aren’t the ones discounted quickly and heavily.

My point is the present situation is good for gamers.

[crispy4000]

16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Ubisoft doesn't launch their games on Steam -- there is an exclusivity period on EGS.

Which is them walking back from what it was.

 

16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

here are still lots of big "blackhole" games not on Steam.  Roblox and Fortnight that pop into my head.

There are tons of games on Roblox that do exceedingly well as FTP.  They don't get much attention here, but their concurrent player counts are exceptionally high.  As I type this Brookhaven (683k) and Blox Fruits (513k) would be the #2 and #3 games ranked on concurrent users if they were on Steam.

Hugely successful PC games exist outside of Steam.  Perhaps Palworld could have been one of them if they knew what they had.

 

Knowing that beforehand is a complete crapshoot in 2024.  It’s a stupid bet.

 

16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

My point is the present situation is good for gamers.

 

Sure.  In spite of recent layoffs and cancellations, the games are still good and plentiful.

 

The grass could be greener still for all if the client-side cut was less.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

Which is them walking back from what it was.

 

Hugely successful PC games exist outside of Steam.  Perhaps Palworld could have been one of them if they knew what they had.

 

Knowing that beforehand is a complete crapshoot in 2024.  It’s a stupid bet.

 

I just looked at concurrent users in games.  Steam ~8M, Roblox ~7M.

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Sure.  In spite of recent layoffs and cancellations, the games are still good and plentiful.

 

The grass could be greener still for all if the client-side cut was less. 

 

[crispy4000]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I just looked at concurrent users in games.  Steam ~8M, Roblox ~7M.

Yes, you too can ditch Steam with your indie upstart, and attract millions of daily active users.  All it takes is some elbow grease and a winning idea.  Good luck out there, you miss all the shots you don’t take!

 

 

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

 

Focusing on macro takes like this is what led to Valve giving the most successful games preferential treatment.

 

Most indies are no better off for it.  The small studios are generally not aiming to be the next market leading trend.

[Ghost_MH]

23 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Also, the ones most likely to take any Epic deals.

If you're a smaller dev, like maybe the guy who did Lethal Company, then even with a 30% cut you're making more than enough money. That guy is set for life now.

 

What does "making more than enough money" even mean here? That Zeekerss should be happy he took less money home than he would have if there were actual real competition among store fronts? That's silly. He did more to deserve the money that game brought in than anything Valve contributed.

 

This whole conversation is silly, though. I'll repeat myself. Gamers don't want competition in this space. They're happy with Steam and want nothing else. Epic can throw free money at an indie devs and, even here, you'll find folks upset that came with an exclusivity window instead of being happy for a monetary windfall for some small-time developer.

 

I recall when they paid Ember Labs for Kena Bridge of Spirits and people were upset because they didn't want a second store front installed on their PCs.