AbsolutSurgen

/Troll Comment/

I always thought it was called "trash graphics compared to my Amiga."

How do you pronounce “NES”? Nintendo throws a wrench in the debate

You can keep your long-running debate about how to pronounce GIF. For me, the argument over how to pronounce "NES"—the abbreviation for the Nintendo Entertainment System—is the more interesting and contentious debate.

Whenever the argument over this inconsequential question comes up—in forum debates, Twitter threads, Slack chat rooms, or even in-person conversations—it never fails to draw strong feelings. People who grew up pronouncing each letter in "N-E-S" are met with those who have gone their whole lives calling it "ness" (or "nezz" in some cases). Both sides are usually equally stringent in their decision and wonder how the other side could possibly think they're right.

For years, I thought that Nintendo had "officially" settled that debate (as far as it could be settled) in favor of pronouncing each letter of "N-E-S." But now, a throwaway line in the Japanese version of WarioWare Gold has thrown everything into question once again.

N-E-S in the U-S-A

I've been somewhat obsessed with the (again, admittedly unimportant) question of "NES" pronunciation since at least 2010, when I first polled my Twitter followers about it. The unscientific results were overwhelmingly in favor of "en-ee-es" back then, as they were when I re-ran the poll in 2016.

All that proves, though, is that I have smart, largely homogenous Twitter followers. But for years, I could at least tell those followers that they had support from Nintendo itself in pronouncing the abbreviation as "N-E-S."

While Nintendo hasn't responded to a request for comment from Ars, the "official" evidence is practically overwhelming. Classic advertisements for first-party games like Dr. Mario, Kirby's Adventure, and Yoshi all call the system "N-E-S" (others use the fuller "Nintendo Entertainment System"). At least two Super NES commercials from the era continued the tradition, referring to the "Super N-E-S" (not the "super ness").

Nintendo's late president, Satoru Iwata, referred to "N-E-S Remix 2" in a 2014 Nintendo Direct presentation. Nintendo's Bill Trinen similarly talks about the "N-E-S Remix" series in a late 2014 Nintendo Direct presentation. Two "Nintendo Minute" presenters talk about the "N-E-S Classic Edition" in a 2016 promotional video.

Quote

If you still wish to play an NES, please keep in mind that we are unable to offer repair for the system. -Nintendo.com Troubleshooting page

You can also see this "official" stance in writings from Nintendo, where the company routinely writes "an NES" (which only makes grammatical sense as "an N-E-S") rather than "a NES" (which would be read as "a ness"). You can find "an NES" written on multiple Nintendo.com troubleshooting pages, in numerous official press releases, and as the header for at least one "Iwata Asks" interview segment.

(Interestingly, Tecmo development head Yosuke Hayashi refers to "a NES game" multiple times in that Iwata Asks interview, which is the closest I could come to finding official Western acknowledgement of the "ness" pronunciation.)

There's also a 2017 Financial Times interview where Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime is quoted talking about "an SNES Classic." That only works if you read it as "an S-N-E-S Classic." Sorry, fans of "sness" (or "snezz." Or "Super ness." Or... well, maybe he said "es-ness"?).

A foreign schism?

I'm willing to acknowledge that plenty of people grew up calling their system "ness" and that pronunciation of abbreviations and initialisms depends a lot on personal choice and regional dialect ("Ness" seems more popular in Great Britain than America, for instance). That said, the above evidence makes it pretty clear that Nintendo's position is that every letter in N-E-S should be read individually when spoken.

So it was a bit surprising to see a tweet this morning showing a screen from the Japanese version of the newly released WarioWare Gold. There, the letters "NES" are accompanied by the katakana ネス, which can be romanized as "nesu" or "ness."

In the museum section of the Japanese version of Wario Ware Gold, you can unlock some slides showcasing the Famicom. Also included is a picture of the NES. Within the description, Nintendo themselves says that “NES” is pronounced “Ness”. pic.twitter.com/Vg5JjXgJgy

— Kyle McLain (@FarmboyinJapan) August 3, 2018

As least one crowdsourced conversational English-to-Japanese reference site seems to show the same pronunciation split between Japan and America. In an entry for Nintendo Entertainment System (machine translation), the authors at "Eijiro" note that "the pronunciation by Nintendo of Japan is 'NESU,' and by Nintendo of America is 'EN II ESU.'"

It seems Nintendo of Japan has a massive schism from Nintendo of America on this important (read: utterly unimportant) issue. But part of the difference might just be down to the vagaries of translation. Localization professional Andrew Vestal told Ars that while "ness" only requires two katakana, writing out "エン　イー　エス" is more of a hassle.

And while "N-E-S" is only three syllables in English, the straight Japanese transliteration "en ii esu" needs six syllables and "requires a Japanese speaker to quickly string together multiple 'ee' and 'eh' vowel sounds without a break in a very unnatural way," as Vestal put it. This is a common issue in going from English to Japanese, where the two-syllable Xbox can become the six-syllable "ekkusu bokkusu" (and the eight kana "エックスボックス").

For the most part, this doesn't come up among Japanese speakers, who simply call the system "Famicom" unless referring specifically to foreign models. Still, I'll grudgingly admit that supporters of the "ness" pronunciation can now point to their own "official" support, straight from Nintendo of Japan.

Now, on to more important matters: how do you pronounce the PS2 game Ico?

1 hour ago, ort said:

Any word on a release date? 2019 probably?

Not 2018.

I wish they would just make another Metal Slug game.

2 hours ago, HardAct said:

    Do you Bigtime PC guys think that planning on a high end 1080ti 2k + budget build a bad idea with these this close? I play PC games on high or close to max settings now but in 1080p usually even though it's on a 65 inch 4k TV. I really want to have most games running at 60fps at 4k though, money won't be a huge issue, but I want very good performance for the next 5 years?

I'm with @Spork3245 on this one.  Buying at the end of a generation is always a losing proposition.  However, know exactly what card you want, and pull the trigger as soon as you see it.  They will be in short supply for a few months.

HZD is a great game.

The Killzone games were all AAA -- even if everything after 2 was disappointing...

If all you want to do is watch YouTube and surf the web, you don't need a good tablet.  A cheap one (like a Fire) will do fine.

I won't let my 10-year old play online games.  And no games where he shoots people (aliens/robots are OK).

I don't pay for a tutor for video games, but I am paying for tutoring for school....

Call me old fashioned.

I am sure the bet is based on not believing the 20 million console delivery target.  The holiday season will ultimately be telling.

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

1) Cherry Picking my Ass.  I said people in the thread were indifferent about the dramatic differenece in the games.  You said what thread I was reading; Like i was making a false notion So I then provided examples of what my reply was refering too

 

"Then all of a sudden the Meta Argument switched to MS has no games.   A person asks  if there is a BIG difference between pspro  and xb1 games and a couple of you guys (who are in the vast minority in this thread) are saying NOT really."

So this is what you meant?

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

2) not sure where you learned your info from but Jag cores ARE THE BIGGEST problem in current gen systems.  Gpu has already proved that it can do 4k frame buffers with no problem.  The problem that the gpu is having is that the Jag core cant provide it with info fast enough to maintain that 4k image at an acceptable frame rate.  If you simply switched out the cores for ryzen cores  these games would hit 4k60 with no problem.   They are already doing it on the pc thats not designed to take advantage of a closed system.  Running consoles with jag cores   is like running a cpu system  that has a 980ti  and using core duo   as the  cpu

Do you actually believe any of this?  Or, are you just trolling?

The jag core is one of the biggest problems in this gen, the other being the fact that they are still not using SSDs. 

However, putting in a faster CPU doesn't make your GPU any faster.  A 970 can do a 4k frame buffer, but its going to run like shit -- even if it has an i9 giving it data.  What pc is "already doing it that's not designed to take advante of aclosethat's not a close system is maxing out 4k60?  A 980Ti can't do 4k60 with an i9 on most games on max settings (not even close)

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

3) Guerilla Games performed well Technically because thier games lacked true gameplay and were basically techdemos  that show the power of sony systems.  

That is objectively wrong and is pure trolling.

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

I have confidence in Ninja Theory  I believe that they can execute in the same manner.  Hellblade  is a great looking game for such a small team to have put together.  dont know why you wouldnt expect them to do much better with full financial backing and a huge uptake in hiring new talent.  

I never played Hellblade (nor DMC).  I have always thought they made very good (but not great) games -- I thought that Enslaved and Heavenly Sword were good fun.  "Full Financial Backing" is only one of the things that it takes to make great games.  And if they started when they finished Hellblade, we won't see anything until AT LEAST 2021.

2 hours ago, TomCat said:

MS is also starting a HUGE new studio who's soul purpose is to produce those TOP TIER games you were refering to.   Phil is fixing the current "No Games" problem and the CEO is fully backing him something the xbox division didnt have at the start of this generation. In fact they were consolidating and destroying studios to save money

Wow -- a "HUGE NEW STUDIO".  Because we all now what a great record "huge new studios" have with making great games.  Hell, the last 2 studios MS created made (the Coalition and 343 Industries) made Gears 4 and Halo 5 and they were ….  Pretty good.  New studios don't have a very good record of making great games their first time out -- even if they have buttloads of money.

15 minutes ago, TomCat said:

1) Ummmmmm this one Quotes from this exact thread:  "Because I have yet to see it. Everything I have played across both consoles looks pretty much identical."      " I don’t think there has been any significant difference yet."   "Long story short, no not really."

 

2)pretty sure we all agree on that aspect thats why Hitting 4k next gen wont really be an issue.  We have enough horse power with todays tech to make next gen machines  Humm in the impressions department.  All they have to do is put in Ryzen cpu cores and a slightly upgraded gpu  and next gen games will have  DRAMATIC difference in performance. You guys are forgetting how fucking weak Jag cores are and the amazing things they are accomplishing with that weak shit.

 

3) MS does have a problem Releasing top tier games at the moment.  Looking at that list of games you promote for  top tier   Horizon is on that list.  You cant tell me that before Horizon Guerella Games (sp)  was a top tier dev.  In Fact they were lower tier and delivered a gem in Horizon.  Who's to say that the same thing wont or Cant happen with the new studios that MS has just acquired.  I can see Ninja Theory doing Great Great things now that they basically have an unlimited budget.

 

 

1)  You're Cherry picking:

"yes plenty of games run natively at 4k on the XBX that only run at 2k on PSPro "

"Yes.  There are differences between PS4 Pro and XB1X games -- the biggest typically being resolution."

"The Witcher 3 seems to be the biggest. You get a much closer to 60 fps experience in 1080p performance mode, or a much more stable locked 30 4ps in 4k."

"The X1X's 30fps 4k mode is supposed to be slightly more stable than the PS4's checkerboarded 4k, which also has some LoD scalebacks."

"If you only consider performance, resolution, image quality, texture quality and filtering, then yes, there are examples of the X making a notable "

"Shadow of War.  The 4GB extra RAM allowed the X to showcase better textures.  The Pro version  got a big rez bump but was stuck with base textures."

"Seems like just about every game either looks or looks and performs better on the xbox one x, going by just about every digital foundry video I have seen."

"As said earlier, mostly Shadow of War, where the extra RAM gives the X a clear takeaway the PS4 can't even handle in textures. "

"Barring developer incompetence it should always be 

PC>XB1X>PS4P>PS4>XB1>Switch"

2)  CPU cores aren't the biggest/only problem with hitting 60Hz at 4k.  It's having a 6 GFLOP GPU.  Faster CPUs don't magically make your GPU better.

3)  Guerilla Games has been making some of the best "technically performing" games for years.  They were able to get the game design up to a consistent level.  Undead Studios and Compulsion Games are not currently AAA sized studios -- and have never even made a full priced game.  Big difference.

Now they begin working on their Day 1 patch!  (Does going gold mean anything anymore?)

17 hours ago, TomCat said:

LOL when the gen first started people were complaining  about a difference of 900p to 1080p   was a drastic enough that the Xb1  was a terrible console. The Meta argument for the first half of this generation was that the ps4 was more powerful.  MS fixed the power ratio by coming in more powerful then the pro.  Then all of a sudden the Meta Argument switched to MS has no games.   A person asks  if there is a BIG difference between pspro  and xb1 games and you guys are saying NOT really  When the Pixel count between the two systems is DRAMATIC.  Most pspro games are 1440p games checkerboared and upscaled to 4k.    Xbox games are coming in at Native 4k.

 

HELL YA THERE IS A NOTICABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PLATFORMS.

1)  People have universally said there is a difference in resolution, and a visible difference between the two platforms (what thread were you reading?)

2)  There are declining benefits to increasing resolution.  IMHO, improving the IQ and/or frame rate goes much further in most living room settings than improving resolution.  Going from checkerboarded 4k to real 4k in most living room settings is hard to notice.

3)  The output from MS studios is notably below Sony/Nintendo.  Outside of Forza, they aren't releasing many top tier games.  And I don't see the purchasing of Compulsion Games, Ninja Theory or Undead labs changing that.  None of them have released a game that would compare to Zelda, Mario, Horizon, TLoU, God of War, etc.

EA has made some decent games over the year.

Mass Effect: Andromeda was a worthy game to play

Mirror's Edge Catalyst was worth a twirl

EA CEO: We’re Looking at Key Franchises to Deliver Cross-Platform Play Similarly to Fortnite

"During the latest investors call after this quarter’s earnings report, EA CEO Andrew Wilson spoke (transcript via Seeking Alpha) about the company’s plans to investigate cross-platform play for key franchises in the near future, after Fortnite’s success paved the way for it.

Quote

 

In terms of cross-platform play, again we are seeing the same thing. And remember, we have a vision on a 3- to 5-year time horizon where a great portion of game experience will exist in the cloud and be pushed to every device you own. And the game experience you have won’t be measured by local CPU or GPU but will be measured by screen size and session time you have, and will drive tremendous liquidity in the market – in a player base. And I think we are to deliver very different types of experiences as a result of a cloud gaming offering.

In the near term, you should also appreciate that we’re looking at key franchises in terms of how we could deliver cross-platform players in a similar way that Fortnite has, especially some of the titles have a broad and diverse player base. Households typically have one console, so the ability to bring PC to console and console to mobile into that play experience can bring families together, can bring friends together. And we think it’s an important part of our future development profile both in terms of mobile games that we have today moving up per se to console and PC, and console and PC games being playable in mobile. And so, I expect more from us on that front in the future.

 

Wilson noted that this could be a particular fit for titles that have a “broad and diverse player base”. This could certainly be the case for sports titles, for example."

I still believe that internet infrastructure and latency  will be a huge barrier to widescale adoption of the game streaming strategy.  Not everyone lives in San Francisco.

8 hours ago, Duderino said:

Up until now, Nintendo has been the only (successful) console manufacture willing to launch a lower cost system that knowingly requires more effort for 3rd parties to port games to.  If these rumors are true, then Microsoft will be making a similar move, albeit one that poses a different challenge to developers.

 

I understand how all this ties into Microsoft's subscription agenda, but their payment model is just one of many implications here.  I'm much more interested in finding out what this tech means for the games and 3rd party support.  Is it going to be like the X/Pro where half the games ship without great support for what people are buying this device for?  Does that even matter if it's cheap enough?

No.  Nintendo has never launched a lower cost console with the vision it would play all the same games as the most expensive console.  I don't believe it will be "more work" for the developer in the same way as it would be for developing for Wii (which made it essentially impossible for AAA) --  I believe very similar game software will be running in the cloud, and it  will be streaming essentially the same game to your console.  This is about (trying) to give you the same console experience, but moving the revenue out of the hardware, and into the monthly subscription fee.

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

I know you can do that, but I'm talking about games that you already own in your digital library and no longer want/play... I have a couple of games I want to gift to my niece and nephews.

You can't transfer your ownership.  But you can "gift" a game you own by buying it again.

I have my Xbox set up as my main account, and my kids play my games on their accounts....  I am sure you could do the same with their Xbox.

Given that I don't play Madden, FiFA or Battlefield.  I'll just buy Anthem on Origin.

1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Do any of the digital services offer this?

Yes.  It gives you the option to "Buy as Gift".

Is $10 billion in annual revenue a big number for a console company?

SotTR available for 25% off  at GMG (Master Race Only) -- Today Only

54 minutes ago, Duderino said:

Don’t get me wrong, the streaming aspect of it is quite different from anything Nintendo would do, but I do think the big picture strategy has enough in common to warrant the comparison.

 

If these rumors are true, MS is making a console that will take extra effort for developers to port to but will likely sell lots of units at the lower price point.  Same objective, different approach, comparable trade-off.

Nintendo went after a low pricepoint on Wii, and arguably on their handhelds.  That is not the case with Switch or Wii-U.

Microsoft's strategy, IMHO, in the next generation will be to transition gamers into subscription revenue to a higher degree.  And the objective of this rumoured box is to create a low price of entry, to drive subscriptions.  I am not aware of Nintendo prioritizing subscription revenue in anything they've done.

38 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

The reward system in FM4 gave you a better sense of progression and something to work for, IMO.

I didn't get to race Hot Wheels Cars though...

3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

 FM4 is the best Forza  

FH3 is the best Forza

EXCLUSIVE: NVIDIA’s Next Generation Graphics Cards Specifications, Pricing And Nomenclature Details

"

These are the expected MSRPs that AIB and vendors have been informed of by NVIDIA:

The 120W NVIDIA next-gen Turing GPU will be priced around $499 MSRP.

The 150W NVIDIA next-gen Turing GPU will be priced around $599 MSRP.

The 180W NVIDIA next-gen Turing GPU will be priced around $699-749 MSRP.

...........

Add in board partners and vendors of NVIDIA are expecting to have the SKUs stocked by the following dates, which is around the same time we should see them released:

The NVIDIA next-gen 120W GPU will be arriving at the end of September.

The NVIDIA next-gen 150W GPU will be arriving by the second week of September.

The NVIDIA next-gen 180W GPU will be arriving in the first week of September."

More rumours.