General Gaming What should I play next: Witcher 3 vs. Ghost of Tsushima

[Bloodporne]

2 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I heard Triss scream one time and immediately picked "...or I could just kill you" dialog option and Aard-ed the shit out of Menge for an insta-kill. Felt real good. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

Geez man, this bulk of "Rescue Dandelion" missions in Novigrad is endless and surprisingly boring compared to how nicely the game was rolling along so far. I think I'm almost done but I feel like I've spent 10 hours walking from map point to map point to watch uninteresting cutscenes. I couldn't take it anymore and ended up slaughtering the entire Witch Hunter compound which was the high point of Novigrad's missions so far. 

While, IMHO, the narrative is one of the best of any game I have played.  There are (more than) a few places where I got frustrated with the pacing of the game.  For example, during the "Blood and Wine" expansion -- there is a secondary mission called "Paperchase" where you literally are going between bureaucrats in a bank trying to get the proper forms filled out so you can withdraw your money.

[Bloodporne]

14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

While, IMHO, the narrative is one of the best of any game I have played.  There are (more than) a few places where I got frustrated with the pacing of the game.  For example, during the "Blood and Wine" expansion -- there is a secondary mission called "Paperchase" where you literally are going between bureaucrats in a bank trying to get the proper forms filled out so you can withdraw your money.

I feel bad for even thinking it because Novigrad is an absolutely amazing location but gameplay-wise, it brought the game to a near screeching halt for the past few hours. Gladly I'm almost done and I'm excited to see Skellige after reading and hearing about it so much in-game. I really like how much the world sets things up and builds anticipation. Finally meeting certain characters or arriving somewhere often feels really reward in itself. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

23 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I feel bad for even thinking it because Novigrad is an absolutely amazing location but gameplay-wise, it brought the game to a near screeching halt for the past few hours. Gladly I'm almost done and I'm excited to see Skellige after reading and hearing about it so much in-game. I really like how much the world sets things up and builds anticipation. Finally meeting certain characters or arriving somewhere often feels really reward in itself. 

The narrative isn't quite that linear in terms of locations....  Even after you first travel to Skellige, you'll still need to spend time in Novigrad.

 

Have you crafted Witcher Gear yet?  Where the pacing fell off for me, was that I decided to spend some time cleaning up my Witcher contracts and collecting the diagrams for the Witcher Gear.  I collected all the sets, even though I have only ever crafted one (for each of the original sets, one is light, one is medium and one is heavy). So, I probably partially did it to myself.

[Bloodporne]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The narrative isn't quite that linear in terms of locations....  Even after you first travel to Skellige, you'll still need to spend time in Novigrad.

 

Have you crafted Witcher Gear yet?  Where the pacing fell off for me, was that I decided to spend some time cleaning up my Witcher contracts and collecting the diagrams for the Witcher Gear.  I collected all the sets, even though I have only ever crafted one (for each of the original sets, one is light, one is medium and one is heavy). So, I probably partially did it to myself.

I did the first Witcher Gear treasure hunt, the one that brings you that glorious light house and so on. I actually thoroughly enjoyed that whole quest but I'm giving the side quests a rest for a bit. 

[Bloodporne]

Okay, having basically finished up the Novigrad main story missions, I can see why people call the combat too easy eventually. The level progression is also strange in that I seem to have over-leveled myself simply by doing mainly story missions by now and I'm still cleaning up Level 12 main missions at Level 16. All main missions fights have become kind of a cake walk where I just end up playing with certain abilities to see if I can get away with it.

 

Let's see where we go from here. About to sail to Skellige next time I play.

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, Bloodporne said:

Okay, having basically finished up the Novigrad main story missions, I can see why people call the combat too easy eventually. The level progression is also strange in that I seem to have over-leveled myself simply by doing mainly story missions by now and I'm still cleaning up Level 12 main missions at Level 16. All main missions fights have become kind of a cake walk where I just end up playing with certain abilities to see if I can get away with it.

 

Let's see where we go from here. About to sail to Skellige next time I play.

I don't think there has been an open world RPG that has really nailed challenge vs. character progression yet. Like, I just finished a playthrough of AC Odyssey, where every enemy levels with you, and once you hit level 50+ and every enemy is either your level or higher, while at the same time your gear is always a couple levels lower than your actual level, it starts to feel like the game is punishing you for progressing. The Elder Scrolls games are similar (Oblivion was especially bad at nerfing special equipment if you got them too early in the game)

 

I'm not sure what the right solution is, but I don't think anyone has figured it out yet.

[Bloodporne]

I'm definitely running out of steam for this game. I accidentally managed to overlevel the shit out of myself it seems and the story quests are too easy, combat has been on auto-pilot for me the last few hours I've played. 

 

What I really miss in games like this are actual combat encounter design. Just by way of its core design, you just kind of always run into the same randomly strewn-about batch of enemies and approach it in ultimately very similar, or same, ways. 

 

I still continue to be really impressed by its world design and gorgeous aesthetics but I can see the gameplay criticisms at this point. Let's see how it develops from here though, curious to see where the game goes story-wise and all.

[Dexterryu]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:50 AM, Fizzzzle said:

I don't think there has been an open world RPG that has really nailed challenge vs. character progression yet. Like, I just finished a playthrough of AC Odyssey, where every enemy levels with you, and once you hit level 50+ and every enemy is either your level or higher, while at the same time your gear is always a couple levels lower than your actual level, it starts to feel like the game is punishing you for progressing. The Elder Scrolls games are similar (Oblivion was especially bad at nerfing special equipment if you got them too early in the game)

 

I'm not sure what the right solution is, but I don't think anyone has figured it out yet.

 

4 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I'm definitely running out of steam for this game. I accidentally managed to overlevel the shit out of myself it seems and the story quests are too easy, combat has been on auto-pilot for me the last few hours I've played. 

 

What I really miss in games like this are actual combat encounter design. Just by way of its core design, you just kind of always run into the same randomly strewn-about batch of enemies and approach it in ultimately very similar, or same, ways. 

 

I still continue to be really impressed by its world design and gorgeous aesthetics but I can see the gameplay criticisms at this point. Let's see how it develops from here though, curious to see where the game goes story-wise and all.

 

I think this is just a general issue with the concepts of levels in a game. I personally feel like it's a bit of an outdated way to give a sense of progression. I like the idea of opening up abilities, but not just adding health/strength. Especially so if enemies level with you... in that case what's the point... you get tougher and so to they. I suppose that's also the case with enemies being tougher by zones.

 

In a lot of ways I liked the way that most metroidvania games handle it. You complete certain events and gain some new tool or ability. That feels much more natural to me than grinding x amounts of bad guys or handing in a quest and magically becoming stronger.

 

Overall though, I play games like Witcher 3 for the narrative, characters, and exploration. There really doesn't need to be a level based progression system. Maybe just a new skill learned here and there by finding some item/tool/weapon that allows it.

[AbsolutSurgen]

11 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I'm definitely running out of steam for this game. I accidentally managed to overlevel the shit out of myself it seems and the story quests are too easy, combat has been on auto-pilot for me the last few hours I've played. 

 

What I really miss in games like this are actual combat encounter design. Just by way of its core design, you just kind of always run into the same randomly strewn-about batch of enemies and approach it in ultimately very similar, or same, ways. 

 

I still continue to be really impressed by its world design and gorgeous aesthetics but I can see the gameplay criticisms at this point. Let's see how it develops from here though, curious to see where the game goes story-wise and all.

I think my experience was largely similar to yours -- although I attributed it to different issues with the game design than you do.  Since I was able to beat mobs that were several levels higher than me, I felt it wasn't so much to do with overlevelling.  Rather, for me, I suspect it had to do with how easy it was to stack abilities that created very OP attacks.  Combine that with enemies that felt very samey and didn't have very good AI, and it became very easy.

 

Some of the combat became (slightly) more challenging in the DLC, as there were some new monster/human types introduced. (And some difficult boss fights -- the final boss in Blood and Wine was tough until I figured out his patterns.)

 

IMHO, the story stays strong.  I found the two DLCs had really interesting stand alone Witcher stories.  So, they're probably worth your time if you enjoy the lore.

[Fizzzzle]

4 hours ago, Dexterryu said:

 

 

I think this is just a general issue with the concepts of levels in a game. I personally feel like it's a bit of an outdated way to give a sense of progression. I like the idea of opening up abilities, but not just adding health/strength. Especially so if enemies level with you... in that case what's the point... you get tougher and so to they. I suppose that's also the case with enemies being tougher by zones.

 

In a lot of ways I liked the way that most metroidvania games handle it. You complete certain events and gain some new tool or ability. That feels much more natural to me than grinding x amounts of bad guys or handing in a quest and magically becoming stronger.

 

Overall though, I play games like Witcher 3 for the narrative, characters, and exploration. There really doesn't need to be a level based progression system. Maybe just a new skill learned here and there by finding some item/tool/weapon that allows it.

I like the way Morrowind handled it, honestly, which is why it's probably my favorite game of all time. There weren't zones, each enemy in the game had a specific level assigned to it. If you ran into it underleveled, you were fucked. That game did a lot of other stuff I wouldn't want today, like having your melee strikes decided by RNGesus, but the overall progression of the game felt great, if uneven. In the beginning of the game, you were scared of even the smallest of critters. By the end of the game, you can be literally flying around the map raining fireballs down to obliterate your enemies, and those bandits you fought earlier are mere bugs on your windshield. It makes sense given that your character is supposed to be the literal reincarnation of a god, and it also feels so worth it after spending all that time getting killed by mutated dogs.

 

I see your point, though. Zelda games have always had a metroidvania-style progression system in an open world setting. So did the earlier Assassin's Creed games, honestly.

[Bloodporne]

My goodness, I never play these open-world epics...I'm already totally burnt out and I just got to Skellige. The OCD nerd in me has to do every side quest and shit and I'm not sure these games are meant to be played like this? Putting it down until my PS5 gets here and I can continue with backwards compat.

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

My goodness, I never play these open-world epics...I'm already totally burnt out and I just got to Skellige. The OCD nerd in me has to do every side quest and shit and I'm not sure these games are meant to be played like this? Putting it down until my PS5 gets here and I can continue with backwards compat.

I did them all too.  My Steam timer says 157 hours.  I did NOT go to all of the "?" on the map -- particularly in Skellige (where I found most of the ones in the water to be a complete waste of time).

[Mercury33]

4 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

My goodness, I never play these open-world epics...I'm already totally burnt out and I just got to Skellige. The OCD nerd in me has to do every side quest and shit and I'm not sure these games are meant to be played like this? Putting it down until my PS5 gets here and I can continue with backwards compat.

That happens to me in every open world game because I’m also OCD about cleaning the maps. So if you wanna do what I do. Take a step back, even take a week off from the game. When you come back just dedicate yourself to the main story and any side things that the main story naturally takes you through. So if you’re traveling for the main quest and see something cool go check it out by all means. Think, I kinda wanna kill a monster today then find a contract. But for the most part stick to the main story missions. Narratives in open world games always tend to drag through the middle then really pick up at the end. Once you get to the third act you won’t wanna stop playing because you’ll need to know what happens next. 
 

I dunno, as someone in the same boat that always helps a lot. Even if I have to initially force myself to do it each time haha

[Bloodporne]

1 hour ago, Mercury33 said:

That happens to me in every open world game because I’m also OCD about cleaning the maps. So if you wanna do what I do. Take a step back, even take a week off from the game. When you come back just dedicate yourself to the main story and any side things that the main story naturally takes you through. So if you’re traveling for the main quest and see something cool go check it out by all means. Think, I kinda wanna kill a monster today then find a contract. But for the most part stick to the main story missions. Narratives in open world games always tend to drag through the middle then really pick up at the end. Once you get to the third act you won’t wanna stop playing because you’ll need to know what happens next. 
 

I dunno, as someone in the same boat that always helps a lot. Even if I have to initially force myself to do it each time haha

I actually turned off "?" icons and the mini-map so I don't constantly get side-tracked. I still was doing all the Secondary Missions and Novigrad felt like it took absolutely forever. By the end, I found myself actually clicking through dialogues just to finish missions as quickly as possible. 

[Captain Pickle]

On 11/10/2020 at 10:10 AM, Bloodporne said:

I'm definitely running out of steam for this game. I accidentally managed to overlevel the shit out of myself it seems and the story quests are too easy, combat has been on auto-pilot for me the last few hours I've played. 

 

What I really miss in games like this are actual combat encounter design. Just by way of its core design, you just kind of always run into the same randomly strewn-about batch of enemies and approach it in ultimately very similar, or same, ways. 

 

I still continue to be really impressed by its world design and gorgeous aesthetics but I can see the gameplay criticisms at this point. Let's see how it develops from here though, curious to see where the game goes story-wise and all.

You did bump up the difficulty tho, right?  I started when u made this thread and I’m heading to Skellige now too

[Bloodporne]

Just now, Captain Pickle said:

You did bump up the difficulty tho, right?  I started when u made this thread and I’m heading to Skellige now too

Yeah, I'm playing on Death March I think.