crispy4000 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 This just DMC5 video gives us the most clarity we've had yet as to what PS5 and Series X can achieve with RT. - Remastered current gen game: -- originally targeted 60fps at a 1080p (PS4) and a reconstructed 1800p/2160p on Pro/X1X. - Next gen, it runs 120fps @ 1080p without RT effects - Raytraced reflections, global illumination, shadows (presumably using traditional methods) - 4k @ 30fps with RT on - 1440p *1080p* @60fps with RT on - Both PS5 and Xbox Series X are singled out as hitting these targets. No word on Series S. Reconstruction techniques are likely being used, as they were employed with the Pro/X1X versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 The 4k/30fps and 1440/60fps will probably be the standard option for multi-platform games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: The 4k/30fps and 1440/60fps will probably be the standard option for multi-platform games.* *Of remasters of prior gen games that originally targeted 60fps. Important distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: The 4k/30fps and 1440/60fps will probably be the standard option for multi-platform games. This is a last gen game that's now stunted to 30fps at 4k with RT enabled. A 75% performance drop vs non-RT. EDIT: I misread; the 120fps was at 1080p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: This is a last gen game that's now stunted to 30fps at 4k with RT enabled. A 75% performance drop vs non-RT. EDIT: I misread; the 120fps was at 1080p. It keeps expectations in check a bit regardless. I'd be happy if upscaled-to 1440p30 with RT is the norm for quality modes. Although I wouldn't expect that to last through the whole generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 @ManUtdRedDevils, @Spork3245 Just realized I transcribed the video wrong. He said 60fps with RT on is only available at 1080p. Maybe 1440p was what I wanted to hear. NXgamer is now claiming he heard from Capcom that Series S also supports raytracing. If that's true, wonder what that hit will be like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I game on a 1080p tv so I guess it isn’t a big deal for me, but it’s a bit disappointing. Maybe the Series X will fare better. If you truly care about this stuff, you at least have PC as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: If you truly care about this stuff, you at least have PC as an option. ? Capcom isn't bringing these bells and whistles to the PC version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Just now, Keyser_Soze said: ? Capcom isn't bringing these bells and whistles to the PC version. Probably because they can’t sell it again like they can on consoles. Luckily DMC ain’t that great anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: I game on a 1080p tv so I guess it isn’t a big deal for me, but it’s a bit disappointing. Maybe the Series X will fare better. If you truly care about this stuff, you at least have PC as an option. Capcom's implied its the same target for both PS5 and Series X. There will inevitably be performance differences, but I don't think you'll see 1440p30 considering. 1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said: ? Capcom isn't bringing these bells and whistles to the PC version. lol,so true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxEvil AshxX Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 With regards to the performance, i don't know the technical side, but the RE Engine has never seemed like the most efficient. It always just looks slow and blurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, XxEvil AshxX said: With regards to the performance, i don't know the technical side, but the RE Engine has never seemed like the most efficient. It always just looks slow and blurry. I wouldn't call it slow, since it's still hitting 60fps this gen. But the blur comes down to upscaling reconstruction and post-processing effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Play it properly and you won't see anything blurry about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Capcom will bring this to PC, but will pretend they won't for the next 6 months. No one is missing out on PC cash, they just need to "honor" their contracts/relationship with Sony. Just like Deamon's Souls Remake is DEFINITELY NOT coming to PC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duderino Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Not at all surprised to hear Alex say that many do not fully understand yet the need for compromises with RT, or that full pathtracing a la Minecraft is not going to be achievable for most titles. Sipderman's inclusion of Raytraced reflections at all is an impressive feat. The fact that we're seeing this on a console while maintaining a 4k target is above my expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I'm just so happy that out of all the shitty and usually unimpressive bells and whistles we get each gen, we're finally seeing something I've been griping about for years: Real reflections and to a lesser extent, way better shadows. I've also got my fingers crossed for some of the crazy colored lighting mixing we've seen in Minecraft RTX (that shit is super crazy and fun to play around with, and really makes Minecraft feel different) but I have a little less hope for that since I believe it's more intensive and probably would be noticed less than something big like reflections. I hope the era of fake ass mirrors that either don't work, are broken, or reflect a Game Boy Advance-quality image are gone. You can do a lot of cool stuff with reflections besides just looking nice, and it can add SO much to a scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 Looks like a match for DMC and Spiderman MM. Just no 60fps mode that we know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 You know it's gonna be a rough gen when the remasters of last-gen games can't hit 60 FPS with raytracing, but I'm still happy raytracing appears to be being normalized, and hopefully performance modes as well. Shame about this many compromises going on before the consoles are even out, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I’m curious how the RT in Watch_Dogs on consoles compares with RTX cards on PC. ie: the same amount of effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: I’m curious how the RT in Watch_Dogs on consoles compares with RTX cards on PC. ie: the same amount of effects Without something equivalent to DLSS (reconstruction techniques on consoles thus far have been dramatically inferior, but maybe AMD has something cool in the oven?) I imagine they'll be the same effects on lower settings. But judging by how demanding multiple settings being cranked up at once in Control is far more demanding than just one or two, I can see a scenario in which they'll only go for the most striking effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, Xbob42 said: Without something equivalent to DLSS (reconstruction techniques on consoles thus far have been dramatically inferior, but maybe AMD has something cool in the oven?) I imagine they'll be the same effects on lower settings. But judging by how demanding multiple settings being cranked up at once in Control is far more demanding than just one or two, I can see a scenario in which they'll only go for the most striking effects. Yea, I meant how does the console RT compare to max RTX RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Enough to where if there's a major difference between the PC and consoles, "who cares it's my $500 box vs your $25,640 PC," but if there's at least a 5% difference between the PS5 and Series X there will be a bloodbath in the comment section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Enough to where if there's a major difference between the PC and consoles, "who cares it's my $500 box vs your $25,640 PC," but if there's at least a 5% difference between the PS5 and Series X there will be a bloodbath in the comment section. I don’t care how others will react, though. I’m curious to see it, ie: how well the consoles do RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Man of Culture said: Outside of some notable first-party exceptions it's most likely going to be low-res reconstruction junk that happens to look good on a TV from 12 ft away. Again, I’m curious about Watch_Dogs: Legion, as it’s a 1:1 comparison since the game has RT on both next gen consoles and PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 37 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Without something equivalent to DLSS (reconstruction techniques on consoles thus far have been dramatically inferior, but maybe AMD has something cool in the oven?) I imagine they'll be the same effects on lower settings. But judging by how demanding multiple settings being cranked up at once in Control is far more demanding than just one or two, I can see a scenario in which they'll only go for the most striking effects. Yup, which means a lot of puddles to start with. It'll be striking until it's not. Reconstruction techniques could get better as the gen goes on, but the specs games are built for will also get more demanding. It's going to be interesting to see how a truly 'next-gen' game deals with RT. Even Control is still current gen in scope with RT layered on top. Same with Cyperpunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 26 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Again, I’m curious about Watch_Dogs: Legion, as it’s a 1:1 comparison since the game has RT on both next gen consoles and PC. It'll be good at telling us what each of the platforms can do with reflections at least. Then Control will tell us more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Nobody notices reflections anyway so I don't think many people will see much of a difference or say, "big deal" I think where Raytracing shines is with actual lighting which is a huge performance hit so no one will actually implement it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Raytracing, HDR, TressFX.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: Raytracing, HDR, TressFX.... Spot the flash in the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 37 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: Nobody notices reflections anyway so I don't think many people will see much of a difference or say, "big deal" I think where Raytracing shines is with actual lighting which is a huge performance hit so no one will actually implement it. Nobody notices reflections? Uhh, most people notice that most games don't actually have reflections. We've been living in a gaming world where mirrors don't work for over a decade now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: Nobody notices reflections? Uhh, most people notice that most games don't actually have reflections. We've been living in a gaming world where mirrors don't work for over a decade now. Things like shines on helmets and such are usually painted on. Now they are in real time but it's such a minuscule thing compared to what could be happening. Mirrors generally work. I mean ever played Duke 3d? All I'm saying is to the average Joe, this isn't a big enough thing to make raytracing seem like a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 45 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: Raytracing, HDR, TressFX.... Well, you’re right about the third one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Keyser_Soze said: Things like shines on helmets and such are usually painted on. Now they are in real time but it's such a minuscule thing compared to what could be happening. Mirrors generally work. I mean ever played Duke 3d? All I'm saying is to the average Joe, this isn't a big enough thing to make raytracing seem like a big deal. Mirrors absolutely do not generally work! Most of the time they're conveniently broken or are literally just sort of shiny gray rectangles. If you're real lucky you'll get some shitty looking low-res, murky ass podunk reflection that ruins the entire scene. And I'm not talking about just a single reflection of a character or something, the reflections in Control change the entire atmosphere. A room primarily made of glass windows with all of the windows reflecting the room and everything in it looks SOOOO fucking different than the default look of them being just basically invisible with a generic white light reflection at certain angles built in. But then you mix that with some excellent interactive light sources, colored lighting that mixes properly, oh man, a game can look so different. Even the plebiest of plebes would instantly notice the massive difference between Minecraft and Minecraft RTX. I'm okay with the first step being towards reflections, though. Because most current reflections are fake as shit as you said (which can be okayish in really static scenes, and are absolute trash in dynamic scenes) or use ugly ass SSR, which cuts off at the edges of the screen, is mostly low res, and in some games shows reflections at a set (low) frame rate, like FFXIV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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