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2/3 of American adults under 40 not aware of 6 million+ deaths in Holocaust (23% deny it existed)


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27 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Same except it was my daughter who could name a concentration camp. My wife makes the rest of us look like fools, she knew 10 of the camp names. She can also tell you a good portion of the Nazi upper ranks, what they did and if what they were convicted of.

I could be friends with your wife. 

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Just now, SimpleG said:

I hope your a fan of WW2/Nazi documentary's and Home & Gardening shows.

the former, yes. I already said I read long, dense history books for fun.

 

Maybe I should watch some gardening shows. I'm struggling to keep houseplants alive at times. Particularly this peace lily right now.

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9 hours ago, sblfilms said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if most people on this board couldn’t nail how many Soviet or Chinese civilian casualties there were doing WW2, or how many deaths the US caused during our napalm campaigns in Japan, and this board is likely above average in knowledge of history. The further out we get from an event in history the less importance the fine details get in teaching that history. The only category I think that matters here are the denier types.

 

Obviously it’s easy to go through the public education system and still be ignorant on a lot of world history, but that has never really applied to the Holocaust. The Holocaust has been a huge part of American curriculums for decades. It was a deliberate choice to highlight it to try and prevent something like it to occur in the future. I can’t speak to other states, but I know it’s a requirement for it to be taught here in Florida. The fact that younger people are more ignorant on this matter is a sign that it’s not a focus in education like it used to be, at least in certain parts of the country. I think it’s being downlplayed in education for more insidious reasons than what you’re implying.

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It can be in the curriculum, but it doesn't mean the material is reached, doubly so if you're in an underserved/poor school. And this could be completely disconnected from any nefarious motives!

 

My high school class had so many students with IEPs, and so few who could make it into/be successful in the few advanced placement courses that we had, that the two tracks often had the same core classes like English. So while we had this nice big book full of Shakespeare and Twain etc we never got to most of the material because we had to spend literally a whole month listening to the audiobook of To Kill a Mockingbird because there were so many students who needed assistance reading. In 12th grade. And these were the kids who couldn't make it to the vocational school (welding, cosmetology, carpentry, etc for junior and senior years) for one reason or another.

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3 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

Obviously it’s easy to go through the public education system and still be ignorant on a lot of world history, but that has never really applied to the Holocaust. The Holocaust has been a huge part of American curriculums for decades. It was a deliberate choice to highlight it to try and prevent something like it to occur in the future. I can’t speak to other states, but I know it’s a requirement for it to be taught here in Florida. The fact that younger people are more ignorant on this matter is a sign that it’s not a focus in education like it used to be, at least in certain parts of the country. I think it’s being downlplayed in education for more insidious reasons than what you’re implying.


It not being a focus is a function of time. There are many aspects of recent history that will be a focus in the immediate years after happening that over time fade in importance in a society. This is why you see the same organization that produced this survey finding similar sorts of statistics in other nations, like Canada. It’s also why we have collectively forgotten atrocities like the Armenian genocide.

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4 hours ago, sblfilms said:


It not being a focus is a function of time. There are many aspects of recent history that will be a focus in the immediate years after happening that over time fade in importance in a society. This is why you see the same organization that produced this survey finding similar sorts of statistics in other nations, like Canada. It’s also why we have collectively forgotten atrocities like the Armenian genocide.


There are events that happened hundreds of years ago that are still given primary focus in history classes. Those in charge of curriculum decide what’s important and what isn’t.

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4 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:


There are events that happened hundreds of years ago that are still given primary focus in history classes. Those in charge of curriculum decide what’s important and what isn’t.

Certainly, but they aren’t covered the same way over time. The further out you go the less detail you will see. Try and find a history textbook from 100 years ago and compare it to a history textbook from today. You will find many things not covered at all in the modern book or covered in less granular fashion. 

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7 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Certainly, but they aren’t covered the same way over time. The further out you go the less detail you will see. Try and find a history textbook from 100 years ago and compare it to a history textbook from today. You will find many things not covered at all in the modern book or covered in less granular fashion. 

 

Sure, you can keeping ‘splaining education to someone who actually works in that field, but you’re not telling me anything that I don’t know.

 

The fact is that for decades many Jewish Americans have pushed Holocaust education so that it doesn’t become just another forgotten event in history. There’s even a whole museum in DC dedicated to just that. Maybe you don’t think it’s worrisome that younger Americans don’t even know how many Jewish people died in the Holocaust, but I don’t think it’s up to you whether that’s concerning or not. I’m seeing lot of activity of Jewish users on Twitter who find this concerning. Maybe you should tell them that they’re overreacting. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your fresh perspective.

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1 minute ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

Sure, you can keeping ‘splaining education to someone who actually works in that field, but you’re not telling me anything that I don’t know.

 

The fact is that for decades many Jewish Americans have pushed Holocaust education so that it doesn’t become just another forgotten event in history. There’s even a whole museum in DC dedicated to just that. Maybe you don’t think it’s worrisome that younger Americans don’t even know how many Jewish people died in the Holocaust, but I don’t think it’s up to you whether that’s concerning or not. I’m seeing lot of activity of Jewish users on Twitter who find this concerning. Maybe you should tell them that they’re overreacting. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your fresh perspective.


You know, we could discuss things like actual adults. Or you can act like this. 

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20 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

I’ll start when you do.

Read my posts and show where I didn’t. Your “splaining” because you work as a private instructor comment is solely about ignoring the content of the discussion in favor of attacking the person who said. There is no need for it and it simply exists to stop discussion. 

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8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Read my posts and show where I didn’t. Your “splaining” because you work as a teachers aide comment is solely about ignoring the content of the discussion in favor of attacking the person who said. There is no need for it and it simply exists to stop discussion. 

 

I don’t work as a teacher’s aide. I work as a private instructor for a variety of subjects, with a speciality in special education. Now you are trying to downplay me by saying I’m simply an aide, ffs.

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4 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

I don’t work as a teacher’s aide. I work as a private instructor for a variety of subjects, with a speciality in special education. Now you are trying to downplay me by saying I’m simply an aide, ffs.

Your previous descriptions sounded like a teachers aide. I don’t think either confers any special knowledge of history textbooks though, but I’ll amend my post to be more accurate.

 

So, setting that issue aside, where in this discussion have I attacked you in anyway, much less the way you or tried to tell you not to contribute to the discussion?

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I wonder how many of these people can name Christopher Co

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Your previous descriptions sounded like a teachers aide. I don’t think either confers any special knowledge of history textbooks though, but I’ll amend my post to be more accurate.

 

So, setting that issue aside, where in this discussion have I attacked you in anyway, much less the way you or tried to tell you not to contribute to the discussion?

 

Yeah, you see, you had to put in another dig about how I don’t have a special knowledge of history textbooks. You aren’t even self-aware enough to realize when you’re being a dick. I at least know that I’m being a bitch right now but I don’t give a fuck that I am.

 

I went to school to study education, and Holocaust education in particular was something we talked about because of how it’s a requirement in the state of Florida. It’s something I do have a background in. Sure, belittle me because I don’t have a speciality in history textbooks all you want. I’m simply over people who continually talk down to teachers. And I’m not going to take it from you.

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16 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:I wonder how many of these people can name Christopher Co

Yeah, you see, you had to put in another dig about how I don’t have a special knowledge of history textbooks. You aren’t even self-aware enough to realize when you’re being a dick. I at least know that I’m being a bitch right now but I don’t give a fuck that I am.

 

I went to school to study education, and Holocaust education in particular was something we talked about because of how it’s a requirement in the state of Florida. It’s something I do have a background in. Sure, belittle me because I don’t have a speciality in history textbooks all you want. I’m simply over people who continually talk down to teachers. And I’m not going to take it from you.


What I said is your role in education doesn’t confer a special knowledge of textbooks. It is simply an appeal to authority on the basis that you work within a particular industry. The only talking down that has occurred is by you, suggesting that my posts are lesser than yours because you work in education. There was no need for that, if you disagree with my position you can disagree with my position. Not me. I didn’t belittle you, I don’t have any specialized training in the field of text books (though I worked on writing Econ text books with two of my professors when I did my masters), I have only a layman’s knowledge from looking at various popular textbooks in history/government/Econ in the last 100 years. 

 

So, do you have special knowledge relating to the history of text books that would elevate the position from which you speak on the subject? Or are you just speaking from a layman’s perspective as well?

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I teach history and I have not talked to a single high school world history teacher who did not cover the Holocaust. WW2 as a whole is a huge unit in 10th grade in California. Can’t speak for the bum ass states in this country though. If Alabama for example didn’t teach it, I guess I wouldn’t be that surprised.  I’d say it’s more likely that kids just forget about the stuff they are taught about it rather than it not even being brought up. It’s possible (or even probable) that there are a lot of teachers not teaching it effectively, which makes it easier for kids to forget about it. 

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:


What I said is your role in education doesn’t confer a special knowledge of textbooks. It is simply an appeal to authority on the basis that you work within a particular industry. The only talking down that has occurred is by you, suggesting that my posts are lesser than yours because you work in education. There was no need for that, if you disagree with my position you can disagree with my position. Not me. I didn’t belittle you, I don’t have any specialized training in the field of text books (though I worked on writing Econ text books with two of my professors when I did my masters), I have only a layman’s knowledge from looking at various popular textbooks in history/government/Econ in the last 100 years. 

 

So, do you have special knowledge relating to the history of text books that would elevate the position from which you speak on the subject? Or are you just speaking from a layman’s perspective as well?


Your posts are lesser not because I’m a teacher, but because you’re trying to normalize the rising ignorance surrounding the Holocaust. It’s disgusting. I hate that you like to be Mr Spock and have no emotions and all reason when it comes to delicate issues that honestly should be handled more sensitively.

 

Do you think the Jewish people who are worried by this news are overreacting?

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1 hour ago, sexy_shapiro said:


Your posts are lesser not because I’m a teacher, but because you’re trying to normalize the rising ignorance surrounding the Holocaust. It’s disgusting. I hate that you like to be Mr Spock and have no emotions and all reason when it comes to delicate issues that honestly should be handled more sensitively.

 

Do you think the Jewish people who are worried by this news are overreacting?


Your personal opinion of me is neither here nor there. Like me, don’t like me, that is OK. Plenty of reasons to not like me, hopefully some reasons to like me.

 

No, i don’t think the Jewish people who are worried about this are overreacting. I never said anybody was overreacting. I never even suggested anybody was overreacting. How other people feel about something is valid regardless of how I feel about it. I also didn’t tell people they should feel differently than they do.

 

I talked about why things change over time as we move further from an event in history. You think it is a particularly insidious plot to paper over what happened. I’m sure there re some people for which this is true, anti-semitism on a per capita basis is amongst the largest racial and ethnic issues today in America.
 

Given that we see similar levels of ignorance of the facts of the Holocaust in other western nations (see Joe’s link to data out of Canada from the same firm), is it your opinion that these same insidious forces are doing so there?

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1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

Given that we see similar levels of ignorance of the facts of the Holocaust in other western nations (see Joe’s link to data out of Canada from the same firm), is it your opinion that these same insidious forces are doing so there?

 

Allow me to chime in here. Yes. And by insidious forces, I'm referring to social media and the Internet writ large. It's really easy for Facebook and Google to ease you into alt-right garbage, and once you head down that rabbit hole, there's only literal Nazis at the bottom.

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11 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Allow me to chime in here. Yes. And by insidious forces, I'm referring to social media and the Internet writ large. It's really easy for Facebook and Google to ease you into alt-right garbage, and once you head down that rabbit hole, there's only literal Nazis at the bottom.

So it’s your belief that social media and the internet is responsible for the lack of granularity in knowledge of the Holocaust, as shown in the data presented in the OP? Or is it more so that in the vacuum of knowledge, these forces can plant the seeds that grow into denialism?

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8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

So it’s your belief that social media and the internet is responsible for the lack of granularity in knowledge of the Holocaust, as shown in the data presented in the OP? Or is it more so that in the vacuum of knowledge, these forces can plant the seeds that grow into denialism?

 

The latter. Just watch. Kept unchecked, I have no doubt that these same forces will give rise to people a generation from now that won't believe anybody died in the 9/11 attacks.

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7 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The latter. Just watch. Kept unchecked, I have no doubt that these same forces will give rise to people a generation from now that won't believe anybody died in the 9/11 attacks.

 

Lmao. Not only do these people already exist, there are people who believe 9/11 didn’t even happen.

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2 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

Lmao. Not only do these people already exist, there are people who believe 9/11 didn’t even happen.

 

Sometimes I forget it's been nearly twenty years and there's already a generation of voters who weren't alive then.

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21 hours ago, sblfilms said:


Your personal opinion of me is neither here nor there. Like me, don’t like me, that is OK. Plenty of reasons to not like me, hopefully some reasons to like me.

 

No, i don’t think the Jewish people who are worried about this are overreacting. I never said anybody was overreacting. I never even suggested anybody was overreacting. How other people feel about something is valid regardless of how I feel about it. I also didn’t tell people they should feel differently than they do.

 

I talked about why things change over time as we move further from an event in history. You think it is a particularly insidious plot to paper over what happened. I’m sure there re some people for which this is true, anti-semitism on a per capita basis is amongst the largest racial and ethnic issues today in America.
 

Given that we see similar levels of ignorance of the facts of the Holocaust in other western nations (see Joe’s link to data out of Canada from the same firm), is it your opinion that these same insidious forces are doing so there?

You may not have realized what you were saying, but saying that I was being childish really cut deep. It almost feels ableist, whether you intended it to be or not. I’m fully self-aware that my autism has stunted my emotional development. I’m aware that I’m behind that curve compared to my peers. I’ve seen my friends eventually grow apart from me because they are maturing and I”m still 19 in a lot of ways. It other ways I’m still 8. Do you know how isolating that can be to be a child in an adult’s body? Or how painful and embarrassing it has been to see my younger siblings grow up and are able to easily exist in this society while I struggle continuously? When you say I need to act like an adult, you are holding your maturity over my head and trying to shame me for not being at that same level as you. Fine, I’m not as fully developed as you are. Maybe I will be one day.

 

I don’t dislike you, but sometimes the way you communicate in here is hard for me to read as an autistic person. And you either seem to be unaware or don’t care that you’re pushing my buttons and you keep going further. I still struggle with reading faces but have gotten better with reading body language. Now that COVID has switched our society to even more of an online-based one it’s made it even more difficult to keep in touch with people.

 

I won’t respond to your other points simply because I’m self-aware that it’s hard for me to debate emotionally charged subjects over the internet. I just need to pull out from that before it sucks me in further.

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