Television Three Body Problem

[CitizenVectron]

David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, Alexander Woo, Rian Johnson, and Brad Pitt are all involved, along with the author and English translator.

 

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/three-body-problem-series-netflix-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-alexander-woo-1234755170/

 

Very excited for this as it's one of the best Science Fiction series I've ever read (and the scale is huge)...but the fact that D&D from Game of Thrones are leading it has me worried.

 

 

 

 

[TheLeon]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

Very excited for this as it's one of the best Science Fiction series I've ever read (and the scale is huge)...but the fact that D&D from Game of Thrones are leading it has me worried.

 

They’re pretty damn good when they have books to work with. 

[CitizenVectron]

7 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

They’re pretty damn good when they have books to work with. 

 

True. Hopefully they don't whitewash the series either...all the main POV characters are Chinese.

[TwinIon]

I just started the third book in the series, and I think that this will be a really hard series to translate to the screen. In Game of Thrones first couple seasons, they translated each 10% of the books into an episode. I don't think this book would work with that kind of straight book to screen adaptation. I think there's a good series in these books, but it could well require an Arrival level of adaptation, which is no small feat. Even with significant changes, this won't be a straightforward narrative.

 

I have zero expectation that all the Chinese characters will remain that way. I suspect that they'll try and get a healthy mix of characters, but I'd be surprised if primary characters aren't white, or American at least.

[Greatoneshere]

I mean, I really disliked most of seasons 7+8 of Game of Thrones, but Benioff has proven himself time and again in the film space for writing and adapting scripts. I have hope/faith.

[legend]

I'm willing to chalk up the failures of the final two seasons to the fact that they were basically checked out and wanted to stop doing it. In that sense I'm will to see how they do on something else, because I thought they otherwise did a good job.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, legend said:

I'm willing to chalk up the failures of the final two seasons to the fact that they were basically checked out and wanted to stop doing it. In that sense I'm will to see how they do on something else, because I thought they otherwise did a good job.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what people were expecting, in some ways. Season 3 finished off book 3, and books 4 + 5, already having been out by the time the corresponding seasons 4+ 5 rolled out, are much bigger books than the previous three (with overlapping timelines, etc). They open up the world so much (that's why some thought, amongst other reasons, books 4/5 were a slog). Benioff and Weiss knew that once season 5 came out (not so much season 4, which was on stronger footing due to the overlapping timelines nature of books 4/5), which half-attempted to both open up the plotlines/world just as books 4/5 did whilst at the same time trying to remain "small" because otherwise the show would need much longer/more seasons to cover all the book 4/5 material. By season 5, they'd literally run out of chapters for many (but not all) of the characters, and no book 6 in sight.

 

That's why season 5 is both good and frustrating and why there are videos out there of all the dropped plotlines from seasons 1-5 that seasons 6-8 don't bother with. When Benioff and Weiss realized no book 6 would be coming soon enough to help them determine if the show should keep opening up more plotlines so they decided to start going their own way fully for season 6 onward but by then they'd set up too many plotlines that required a proper adaptation of the rest of the series (they needed the books at this point), otherwise you'd have to create shortcuts, eliminate plotlines, etc. whilst still trying to give the ending Martin intends for his books whilst appeasing both book and TV fans . . . which is what happened.

 

I'm not sure it was possible. Theoretically, yes, but difficult all the same. They should have gone into the show having planned better about what to do about 1) adapting books 4 and 5; and 2) the very real possibility Martin will not have finished his books by the time you finish adapting book 5; and 3) can the show, even as wildly successful as it did become, handle adapting books 4 and 5, which means books 6 and 7 will be even more sprawling things that will need to be adapted? Stuff like that. It was inevitable.

 

I still believe seasons 1-4 are pretty much untouchable, and there are parts I like about season 5 (it has Hardhome!). Seasons 6-8 are meh except the last two episodes of season 6, which are EPIC. Even the bad seasons are so slickly made that it helps paper over a lot, but as a big book fan, all the writing shortcuts and inadequacies made it too hard to ignore.

[Remarkableriots]

1 hour ago, legend said:

I'm willing to chalk up the failures of the final two seasons to the fact that they were basically checked out and wanted to stop doing it. In that sense I'm will to see how they do on something else, because I thought they otherwise did a good job.

If they hated working on the show so much why didn't they just quit?

[elbobo]

There are going to be some really hard to adapt parts of the books, there are some really out there concepts. Interesting as hell but challenging just to visualize at times. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Oh dear God.

[TheLeon]

3 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

If they hated working on the show so much why didn't they just quit?

[thewhyteboar]

Ken Liu, the translator, has his own series that's really good; The Dandelion Dynasty. I hope that gets adapted sometime. 

[TheLeon]

I thought we had a newer thread on this, but…

 

 

 

Comes out on the 21st. I still haven’t read the books, but this looks cool.

[Moa]

I can already tell I'm going to spend my entire time watching this being mad about the changes from the books.

[Greatoneshere]

This drops today - the few reviews I saw really liked it! I'll definitely be checking it out at least.

[Moa]

[CitizenVectron]

Just finished Severance (little late to the party, but it was fantastic) so probably going to start this this weekend. I liked the book series (I actually think Book 4 was the best, which is by a different author but still part of the canon).

[Moa]

The pace feels a little too fast. For a show that plays into the mystery aspect of the books, the characters blurt out the right solutions a little too quickly.

 

Everyone's too young and hot.

 

I wonder what people who aren't familiar with the books will make of it.

[TwinIon]

It's been a while since I read the books, but episode 1 seemed like a pretty decent start. Reviews are pretty good, and I enjoyed the series, so I'll be seeing this one through.

 

I did find it kind of funny that it wasn't at the top of my Netflix screen. At a reported $160M total, Netflix is spending Game of Thrones money at this show. A generous reading is that the Netflix algorithm expects that I'll watch it or seek it out, so they need to promote other content to me that I might find interesting while I scroll over to this series. The more likely answer is that Netflix still just sucks at promotion, even inside it's own app.

[Moa]

I finished the season and am generally disappointed. There are plenty of nits to pick, but overall one of the best things about the books is how huge everything feels and the way the scope constantly expands. This was largely missing from the show due to the aggressive remixing of the plot and localizing all the central characters as a group of friends who already happened to know each other at the beginning of the show. It'll never happen, but considering the warring Three Body Problem shows going on, the real perfect choice would be Damon Lindelof and HBO heading up an adaptation.

[Greatoneshere]

The A.V. Club really liked the season, giving it a B+, which is promising as I'm about to dive into this series though Moa's take is tempering that a bit.

 

3 Body Problem review: So is this the next Game Of Thrones?

WWW.AVCLUB.COM

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No, Netflix’s heady sci-fi series isn’t that (which is just fine by us).

 

[Mercury33]

I watched the first episode and I’m in. Never read the book. Books ruin things. 

[Greatoneshere]

I finally wrapped this up today. Stylized as "3 Body Problem", I enjoyed the show. I agree with the A.V. Club review that basically says it wears the clothes of prestige television but at the end of the day this is a nerdy sci-fi show more akin to Fringe or The X-Files than it is some harder sci-fi show or film like Gravity or Arrival or Sunshine or something. It's very plot-heavy, with only so much character development mingled in (but enough at least). I recommend everyone should check it out given it's a new sci-fi show with at least some thought and depth to it. I'm surprised more here aren't watching it given it seems like it would be up peoples' alley around here. The VR segments were really well done and the concepts introduced in this show reminded me a bit of the animated show Pantheon (which is no surprise given that Pantheon was based on the sci-fi short stories of Ken Liu, the English translator of the Three Body Problem book trilogy). I hope we get a season 2 (and 3) adapting the next two books.

 

I am curious how the 2023 Chinese TV show compares to this. Thirty episodes to adapt one book seems like a bit much, but I felt like the Netflix show moved a little fast with just eight episodes, but 30 episodes seems too slow to unravel the mystery. Still, I'm curious. 

[legend]

I finished it today and liked it! Never watched the other show or read the book.

[TheLeon]

I’ve watched the first two episodes, and I dig it. Downloaded the rest of the season on my iPad for my flights back home tomorrow. 

[TheLeon]

Just finished the season. Having nothing to compare it to, I fully loved it. I feel like this really could be a big crossover hit. There’s some deeply nerdy shit at the core of this, but it starts off simply enough that I think plenty of people could connect with the story/characters and would still be on board by the time things get real wacky. And a really fun cast! Shoutout to Benedict Wong in particular, I absolutely loved the vibe he brought to this. 

[elbobo]

Finished it up earlier today. I thought they did a pretty good job adapting a very challenging piece of literature but no where as difficult as book 3 will be. Only thing that bugged me was so many important characters knowing each other/being close before the story kicks off, makes the world unnaturally small especially for such a huge story.

 

book vs show thoughts below, spoilers

The VR stuff was going to be the hardest part of the 1st book to adapt, some parts I thought they did a really good job with like the dehydration, I always had a tough times picturing that in my mind's eye. I wish they had done more with the human computer though, I know they weren't going to do a 25 minute dissertation on logic gates but they gave us essentially nothing. I don't see how a non-book reader could have possibly figured out how that was supposed to be working.

 

The buff they gave to the sophons though is going to be huge problem for later seasons. In the books they could mess with the results of particle accelerators and be a near omnipresent spy but that was about it. In the show they can manipulate electronics and computers... well pretty much all human technology uses computers and electronics. Once they get to the deterrence era all a sophon has to do is mess with the "sword" so it can't trigger a transmission and that is game over for humanity.

[outsida]

The series did a good job adapting the material. I felt the creative choices really help with the format change from book to TV while being faithful to the original story. 

[Remarkableriots]

So when do you expect this series to get cancelled, like most big-budget Netflix series?

[Spork3245]

17 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:

So when do you expect this series to get cancelled, like most big-budget Netflix series?

Never really understood this. Isn’t Netflix’s cancellation rate like 10-12%? That’s a lot lower than the average for network TV, isn’t it?

[Greatoneshere]

4 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

Never really understood this. Isn’t Netflix’s cancellation rate like 10-12%? That’s a lot lower than the average for network TV, isn’t it?

 

I think it's more the kinds of shows they cancel (big budget series people get into) than the simple rate of cancellations. But you are right, it's 10.2%, which is lower than the average by a little.

 

Report: Are TV Show Cancellation Rates Rising? | Luminate

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This exclusive report aims to unravel the enigma surrounding TV show cancellations by conducting a comprehensive, data-driven analysis of streaming platforms & traditional broadcasters.

 

[Spork3245]

34 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think it's more the kinds of shows they cancel (big budget series people get into) than the simple rate of cancellations. But you are right, it's 10.2%, which is lower than the average by a little.

 

Report: Are TV Show Cancellation Rates Rising? | Luminate

LUMINATEDATA.COM

---

This exclusive report aims to unravel the enigma surrounding TV show cancellations by conducting a comprehensive, data-driven analysis of streaming platforms & traditional...

 

What’s defining “big budget”, though? The biggest budget ones at Netflix typically seem to have multiple seasons and an actual “final season”, don’t they? I know some absolutely bombed and were canned, of course. The only big budget Netflix show that was canned “out of nowhere” that I can recently remember is “the get down” or whatever it was called, but that did terribly anyway iirc. Just kinda seems like a myth that got started by reddit trolls or something, I dunno. It just seems incredibly exaggerated.

 

Anywho, looks like broadcast TV is way higher:

https://www.chartr.co/stories/2023-09-20-2-streaming-platforms-cancelling-shows

 

I’d argue that Max is skewed a bit due to all the cancellations from the merger, but Disney, Paramount, and Hulu are all a lot worse than Netflix with cancellations it seems.

 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

What’s defining “big budget”, though? The biggest budget ones at Netflix typically seem to have multiple seasons and an actual “final season”, don’t they? I know some absolutely bombed and were canned, of course. The only big budget Netflix show that was canned “out of nowhere” that I can recently remember is “the get down” or whatever it was called, but that did terribly anyway iirc. Just kinda seems like a myth that got started by reddit trolls or something, I dunno. It just seems incredibly exaggerated.

 

I think when people think of "big budget", they think of sci-fi and fantasy shows (big genre shows) or shows that come off as prestige TV. Shows like Sense8, The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance, The OA, 1899, The Midnight Club, Warrior Nun, The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, Glow, Santa Clarita Diet, Resident Evil, Cowboy Bebop, Altered Carbon, Space Force, Mindhunter, Tuca & Bertie, Marco Polo, The Get Down, Uncoupled, American Vandal, The Brothers Sun and Shadow and Bone, just to name some of the big ones (hell, The Sandman almost didn't get renewed for its second season). All of these shows were cancelled after one or two seasons (except Glow, whose final season was cancelled, season 4) despite each having, at the time, strong but probably small cult followings compared to a lot of shittier/cheaper Netflix stuff that lasts, hence the perception. I know a lot of people around here, including myself, liked a lot of these shows (I wish Sense8, The OA, Mindhunter, and some others had lasted longer) so to me that's a strong list of mostly good shows that felt like they got unceremoniously cancelled before they could get any real momentum, which they showed real promise of. That's a big list, I'm not sure it's that exaggerated but at the same time all platforms cut some big shows people love every year. They just seem to last a few seasons longer than what Netflix allows. It's not a hill I care about dying on, but it's not crazy to be skeptical of Netflix either. In 3 Body Problem's case, it's a trilogy of books and that's it so I imagine Netflix is probably all in on adapting all three books into three seasons of TV.

 

Cancelled Netflix Series - IMDb

WWW.IMDB.COM

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Cancelled Netflix Series

 

Every Show Canceled by Netflix in 2023

VARIETY.COM

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From 'Shadow and Bone' to 'Sex/Life,' here is every show Netflix canceled in 2023.

 

Netflix Has Created A Self-Fulfilling Cancelation Loop With Its New Shows

FORBES.COM

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A couple weeks ago, I remarked that Netflix now felt like it was “actively stealing time from me.” I can almost not even remember which cancelation I was talking about at the time, given that there have been so many, but I believe it was 1899

 

[Spork3245]

30 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

That's a big list,

It’s tiny compared to, like, CBS, though.  

Many of those shows were quite bad to mediocre and not exactly high budget. ie: Dark Crystal wasn’t good, IMO, and its budget was about a third of some of Netflix's most expensive shows. Plus, as you noted, many of those had multiple years of seasons, and in regards to Glow (which I loved), it was filming the final season but then the pandemic hit, which is why it was canned without getting the finale (this happened to a lot of shows during the pandemic unfortunately).

I mean, sure, there’s a bunch of good ones on that list, but I can name great shows that were cancelled on every network: that’s my point, this “Netflix cancels everything!” talking point is, well, just a talking point. They aren’t any worse than this than almost any other network.

[Remarkableriots]

They cancelled all these shows I enjoyed, so nope, I'm not investing anymore of my time watching shows on Netflix when they'll most likely cancel them.

 

Altered Carbon

Iron Fist

Punisher

Luke Cage

Daredevil

Defenders

Santa Clarita Diet

Disjointed

GLOW

The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance

The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina