PC Valve’s first new game in 5 years, Artifact, coming in November, starting at $20 (update - beta pushed to November 19)

[Anzo]

Yeah that is my biggest gripe currently as well. I don't know the flow of a match yet to tell whether or not I am doing well. Just seems like I'm laying stuff down and voila, I'm winning or losing. 

[Xbob42]

Hearthstone's ultra simplicity also makes it incredibly boring the more you play. Despite all the new cards over the years, a match today feels almost identical to a match years and years ago. There's so little interaction and the possibility space is so narrow. Being able to easily tell who's winning isn't worth all that bullshit.

[Keyser_Soze]

It's available in 5 hours!

[Moa]

I think this game is good.

[TwinIon]

After only playing a few rounds, it's clear that there is a lot of interesting strategy to the game, but I'm still not really sure if it's going to be for me.

 

I've never been a huge fan of drafting, and I think it's the most difficult way to play a card game. Building a good deck in a draft requires a good understanding of different potential strategies you might take, the relative strengths of the individual cards, and an understanding of how to hedge your bets on certain colors/strategies. I certainly understand why people like it, but I feel like I'm jumping in the deep end with drafts.

 

 

It's clear that even after a few games, that there is a lot going on in Artifact. Between the three lanes, hero deployment, money, mana, equipment, etc., there are a lot of spinning plates. It's a game that demands your full attention at all times, which is both good and bad. I think it makes the viewing experience difficult, and it makes the gameplay feel even longer than it actually is.

 

All that said, if you're a fan of card games and especially if you enjoy drafting, I think it's an easy purchase. Free casual drafts alone feels like it has a ton of potential if you're willing to put in the time to learn the game.

[Moa]

I was trying out the meepo preconstructed deck and was getting bashed all around by a mono-green deck. I had lost one lane, had a few creeps in another lane, and had a single hero in an empty lane. I got to redeploy 2 heroes and a fistful of meepos and committed to the first lane putting only one meepo in the second lane. My opponent committed hard to the second lane with a lot of buff cleaving heroes. I used time of triumph to buff my 3 heroes + 3 meepos, proofed my meepos to the second lane, took the first tower, and despite losing all my units in the second lane I pushed exactly lethal damage to the tower for the win. 

 

Felt good to steal a game that I spent the majority of the time wondering how to concede. 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 hours ago, TwinIon said:

After only playing a few rounds, it's clear that there is a lot of interesting strategy to the game, but I'm still not really sure if it's going to be for me.

 

I've never been a huge fan of drafting, and I think it's the most difficult way to play a card game. Building a good deck in a draft requires a good understanding of different potential strategies you might take, the relative strengths of the individual cards, and an understanding of how to hedge your bets on certain colors/strategies. I certainly understand why people like it, but I feel like I'm jumping in the deep end with drafts.

 

 

It's clear that even after a few games, that there is a lot going on in Artifact. Between the three lanes, hero deployment, money, mana, equipment, etc., there are a lot of spinning plates. It's a game that demands your full attention at all times, which is both good and bad. I think it makes the viewing experience difficult, and it makes the gameplay feel even longer than it actually is.

 

All that said, if you're a fan of card games and especially if you enjoy drafting, I think it's an easy purchase. Free casual drafts alone feels like it has a ton of potential if you're willing to put in the time to learn the game.

 

I suggest watching some of Purge's games, he's done drafts and he explains the weakness of decks he goes up against and stuff like that. He did a keeper or phantom draft (don't remember which) a couple days ago and went 5 - 0.

[Jason]

So is it at the point where it's worth jumping in or do they still need some time to work out some kinks?

[Keyser_Soze]

37 minutes ago, Jason said:

So is it at the point where it's worth jumping in or do they still need some time to work out some kinks? 

 

Probably better to jump in now when everyone is new than wait and get your ass handed to you when only dedicated players are playing.

[Xbob42]

I've really been enjoying this, despite only having had time to play the tutorial intros and like 4 draft matches. I keep forgetting to use my active abilities on cards, though, since they're so tiny! They gotta put a confirmation on turn ends or something (at least once per game) to remind you that you have active abilities going unused, which is fine, you don't always want to use them on cooldown, but I could've won a game like 2 turns earlier if I remembered black hero could do 8 fucking piercing damage every 4 turns.

[Keyser_Soze]

Getting familiar with the cards does help. I totally screwed myself when I played “At All Costs” it deals 6 damage to all units but didn’t realize that included your own units as well. So then I wiped all the units in the lane out but it just so happened the opponent had heroes to deploy in the next phase and I didn’t so I lost the game hard because I couldn’t recover from that.  

[Keyser_Soze]

So I had been practicing against the AI, which is tough. If you're struggling this article on lane priority is a helpful read: https://www.artibuff.com/blog/2018-11-05-recognizing-lane-priority

 

Anyway, I finally beat the AI (with the Trench Warfare deck) and decided to play against a human and I won pretty handily.

[Jason]

I played the two training rounds last night and it mostly seems to make sense but there were a couple of things I felt like I wasn't quite following. Like the placement of the non-hero mobs that you get before cards are drawn.

[Keyser_Soze]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Like the placement of the non-hero mobs that you get before cards are drawn.

 

The creeps spawn randomly into each lane and I believe the placement is also random, so if you see two creeps going to a lane and your opponent has a creep and a hero card, if you put a hero card there there's a chance that your hero card could be placed in front of the hero or one of your creeps could be placed in front of your opponents hero giving you a free shot at the tower.

 

I probably over explained it because you probably understand that last part.

[Keyser_Soze]

Here's a short video of Purge explaining it (it is indeed random)

 

 

[Jason]

39 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

The creeps spawn randomly into each lane and I believe the placement is also random, so if you see two creeps going to a lane and your opponent has a creep and a hero card, if you put a hero card there there's a chance that your hero card could be placed in front of the hero or one of your creeps could be placed in front of your opponents hero giving you a free shot at the tower.

 

I probably over explained it because you probably understand that last part.

 

Yeah, the bolded is all I really needed confirmation on there. I wasn't sure if I'd accidentally clicked through something explaining that bit and thererefore wasn't sure if I was missing something.

[Keyser_Soze]

There's a patch with new features

https://playartifact.com/buildyourlegend

 

Quote

Valor and Skill Are Rewarded

Every matchmade game in Artifact grants XP used to level your account and unlock more content. Reaching certain tiers grants level icons to show the world what you've accomplished, while others grant card packs or tickets (up to fifteen of each this season).

 

Weekly Bonus

If you win three games in a week, you will be awarded a significant XP bonus. Whether you want to draft, play a Call to Arms game, or try out a new constructed deck doesn't matter -- any win in a matchmade game will move you closer to the bonus.

 

Playstyle Awards
Additional XP can be earned every match based on how you play. Did you fully equip all of your heroes? Maybe you managed to win without using a single healing item. There are dozens of available bonuses and you can earn up to three each match.

 

Rise Above The Crowd
Ranging from 1-75, your Skill Rating is a reflection of your rising mastery of Artifact. At the start of each season, every player starts at Skill Rating 1. Over the season, every victory against an opponent with a higher Skill Rating will raise your own.

 

Independent Ratings
Some players look to bring a finely-honed constructed deck into a game, others prefer to build one on the fly in draft. Independent constructed and draft skill ratings let you claim your kingdom, or vie for both crowns.

 

Seasonal Ratings
During a season, once you've earned a skill rating, you'll never lose it. In a few months, a new season will begin, and ratings will reset – giving you a fresh opportunity to prove your skill.

 

Also, axe was slightly nerfed.

[Pikachu]

‘Artifact’ Game Designer Laid Off From Valve

[TwinIon]

49 minutes ago, Pikachu said:

‘Artifact’ Game Designer Laid Off From Valve

I feel like that's Valve throwing in the towel. The writing was already on the wall, but short of shutting down the market, this is as drastic a move they could take. Given that no one plays the game, it's not a big surprise.

[Xbob42]

59 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I feel like that's Valve throwing in the towel. The writing was already on the wall, but short of shutting down the market, this is as drastic a move they could take. Given that no one plays the game, it's not a big surprise.

It's a shame, they had a pretty fun game, but made some bizarre decisions, that for me at least, completely kneecapped its staying power.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

It's a shame, they had a pretty fun game, but made some bizarre decisions, that for me at least, completely kneecapped its staying power.

 

Some of the ideas were pretty interesting, but I kind of just stopped playing and never really had a second thought about maybe giving it another go. Which is not a good sign for a brand new Valve game.

[Xbob42]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Some of the ideas were pretty interesting, but I kind of just stopped playing and never really had a second thought about maybe giving it another go. Which is not a good sign for a brand new Valve game.

Things like the random arrows for attackers was just the kind of nonsense RNG I have no patience for. I already dislike the level of RNG Hearthstone has, let alone having to worry about my creatures attacking the "right" targets every round, or the enemy getting a lucky arrow and destroying one of my best creatures with no recourse. Card games already have RNG inherent to them by way of it being a card game, no need to throw extra BS on top of that.

That and the pausing after every little move for the other player. I dislike that Hearthstone has no counterplay during the opponent's turn, but turning literally every single card played into a turn for both players just slowed things down too much, and it wasn't streamlined enough to let me auto-skip my "turn" if I had no playable cards or whatever.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, Pikachu said:

‘Artifact’ Game Designer Laid Off From Valve

 

Didn't this happen a long time ago?

It's not the death knell for the game he was merely there to lay the groundwork and was never going to be a permanent employee.

[legend]

11 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Things like the random arrows for attackers was just the kind of nonsense RNG I have no patience for. I already dislike the level of RNG Hearthstone has, let alone having to worry about my creatures attacking the "right" targets every round, or the enemy getting a lucky arrow and destroying one of my best creatures with no recourse. Card games already have RNG inherent to them by way of it being a card game, no need to throw extra BS on top of that.

 

I haven't played it, but that does sound pretty bad. Stochasticity in games can be used to make for interesting risk-management strategy (for example consider how critical consideration of randomness is in poker). But when it doesn't alter the strategy (as oppose to outcome) in meaningful ways, it just makes for more frustrating experiences.

 

Moreoever, even when game-mechanic stochasticity induces interesting strategy, it can still be bad in competitive spaces if the evaluation of the better player isn't prolonged enough to smooth out the variance. That is again why poker isn't evaluated by one hand: it's many hands over the night. These online card games have the limitation that you're probably not going to play with a single person for long enough to do that, which, at least to me, makes them less appealing.

[Keyser_Soze]

8 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I haven't played it, but that does sound pretty bad.

 

It's not bad though. There will be random pathing (50% forward and 25% to the sides) if the card that is deployed is unobstructed. And there are cards that allow you to change your target or move the card to an unused space, etc. You're not helpless.

 

In any case this isn't what killed the game. Babies crying for it to be free to play killed it.

[TwinIon]

13 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Things like the random arrows for attackers was just the kind of nonsense RNG I have no patience for. I already dislike the level of RNG Hearthstone has, let alone having to worry about my creatures attacking the "right" targets every round, or the enemy getting a lucky arrow and destroying one of my best creatures with no recourse. Card games already have RNG inherent to them by way of it being a card game, no need to throw extra BS on top of that.

That and the pausing after every little move for the other player. I dislike that Hearthstone has no counterplay during the opponent's turn, but turning literally every single card played into a turn for both players just slowed things down too much, and it wasn't streamlined enough to let me auto-skip my "turn" if I had no playable cards or whatever.

I agree about the random arrows, and felt similarly about the random placement of creeps. I've seen arguments that it's a kind of RNG that rewards better players more than the RNG of Hearthstone, and while that may be true, it's also not very fun. To new players in particular, it feels punishing for no reason.

 

I also maintain my very first impression from the first reveal of the game that the triple game board was a bad idea. You can make the argument that it makes the gameplay much more tactical and interesting, and you might be right, but it's intimidating, unintuitive, and terrible to watch. It's an idea that should have been shelved immediately if they wanted this game to ever have any kind of mass appeal. 

[Xbob42]

I actually liked the concept of 3 game boards, it's just that all the RNG makes it extra stupid and pointless.

[Keyser_Soze]

10 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I also maintain my very first impression from the first reveal of the game that the triple game board was a bad idea. You can make the argument that it makes the gameplay much more tactical and interesting, and you might be right, but it's intimidating, unintuitive, and terrible to watch. It's an idea that should have been shelved immediately if they wanted this game to ever have any kind of mass appeal. 

 

It keeps it true to it's DOTA roots, which is the most popular game on steam. It's not that hard to understand. I personally would be a lot less interested in the game if it was just regular one board thing.

[TwinIon]

13 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

It keeps it true to it's DOTA roots, which is the most popular game on steam. It's not that hard to understand. I personally would be a lot less interested in the game if it was just regular one board thing.

Again, I think there are fine arguments that having three boards makes it a better game. I think it's cool that it makes every match a best of three, and I think it's a key factor in allowing skill to shine through an otherwise RNG heavy game type.

 

However, I still think it is initially intimidating and unintuitive, especially to gamers that don't play DOTA. DOTA might be the biggest thing on Steam, but at ~11M MAU, it's almost certainly a good deal smaller than Hearthstone, which itself dwarfs it's "parent game" WoW. Relying on DOTA for flavor is great, but there's no requirement that the gameplay mirrors agross games. It's also a mess to watch. Switching across boards constantly means that you rarely have a look a the whole field of play at one time, which is very unusual for a card game. It just makes it a messy Twitch experience.

 

I think there's a lot to like about Artifact, and I was hoping that it would succeed, but I do think some of the things that made it interesting and unique are the same things that prevented it from finding an audience.

[monkk]

Yep, the fact that the game is unintuitive to new players, and the base set is simple to experienced players so that neither side is happy is a major factor. This is a problem that would naturally get better as more sets released and new players stop being new players, but we may never get that opportunity. FWIW I love everything about how Artifact gameplay was designed. It is truly a marvel at how well they were able to combine so many different systems. The fact that all RNG occured before a round started(with the exception of one case at launch that is now removed) so that you always have an opportunity to react to it is brilliant.

 

I think another major factor that no one has talked about is the fact that the Steam marketplace is garbage and feels terrible to use. Perhaps it would have been worth it for Valve to ensure the buy/sell spreads were only $0.01.

[Keyser_Soze]

Quote

https://steamcommunity.com/games/583950/announcements/detail/1819924505115920089

 

When we launched Artifact, we expected it would be the beginning of a long journey, that it would lay the foundation for years to come. Our plan was to immediately dive into our normal strategy of shipping a series of updates driven by the dialogue community members were having with each other and with us.

Obviously, things didn't turn out how we hoped. Artifact represents the largest discrepancy between our expectations for how one of our games would be received and the actual outcome. But we don't think that players misunderstand our game, or that they're playing it wrong. Artifact now represents an opportunity for us to improve our craft and use that knowledge to build better games.

Since launch, we've been looking carefully at how players interact with the game as well as gathering feedback. It has become clear that there are deep-rooted issues with the game and that our original update strategy of releasing new features and cards would be insufficient to address them. Instead, we believe the correct course of action is to take larger steps, to re-examine the decisions we've made along the way regarding game design, the economy, the social experience of playing, and more.

So what does this mean?

Moving forward, we'll be heads-down focusing on addressing these larger issues instead of shipping updates. While we expect this process of experimentation and development to take a significant amount of time, we’re excited to tackle this challenge and will get back to you as soon as we are ready.

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Looks like Artifact has become the destination to watch pirate movie and TV streams

 

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Artifact

 

[PaladinSolo]

3 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

Looks like Artifact has become the destination to watch pirate movie and TV streams

 

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Artifact

 

lol, Infinity War is playing ATM.

[Keyser_Soze]

55 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

lol, Infinity War is playing ATM.

 

They were playing John Wick 3 and Game of Thrones earlier.

[DarkStar189]

Oh hell yeah, Scary Movie 2 lol