Mobile Tim Apple v Tim Epic - update: Apple has terminated Epic’s developer account lololol

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

After Xbox testimony, Apple tells Microsoft to put up or shut up

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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A grudge match between Microsoft and Apple.

 

Quote

Apple is now asking the judge for an “adverse credibility finding,” basically a determination that Wright’s testimony can’t be trusted because of irregularities in document production.

 

In a new filing, Apple argued that some of the documents referred to in Wright’s testimony weren’t produced in advance, and the entire testimony should fall under a cloud. Apple’s lawyers zeroed in on Wright’s claim that Xbox hardware was sold at cost in order to subsidize game sales.

 

“Ms. Wright testified about the supposed unprofitability of Microsoft’s console business without providing the P&L statement from her files that could have substantiated (or disproven) her testimony,” Apple’s filing argues.

 

 

At trial, Epic and Apple squeeze Microsoft over Xbox, xCloud restrictions

ARSTECHNICA.COM

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Questions over Xbox restrictions, xCloud's iOS struggles serve as comparison points.

 

Epic v. Apple turns into Windows v. Xbox

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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"What’s a computer" finally gets its day in court

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Xcloud support mandated by Xbox Series X TLA:

 

[Ghost_MH]

18 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

 

This sounds about right.

 

That's a damn good deal for Sony. I would think that the vast majority of Playstation owners aren't going to be ditching their consoles for PC ports. This is residually true if Sony isn't print to PC until years after release on console, like the three year has for Horizon Zero Dawn.

 

9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

After Xbox testimony, Apple tells Microsoft to put up or shut up

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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A grudge match between Microsoft and Apple.

 

 

 

At trial, Epic and Apple squeeze Microsoft over Xbox, xCloud restrictions

ARSTECHNICA.COM

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Questions over Xbox restrictions, xCloud's iOS struggles serve as comparison points.

 

Epic v. Apple turns into Windows v. Xbox

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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"What’s a computer" finally gets its day in court

 

 

I don't buy the entertainment device angle. That one doesn't make sense because the restrictions here are entirely arbitrary. However, the "we need our cut to subsidize hardware while Apple is profiting on hardware sales" is very compelling. Apple wanting Microsoft to prove it sells their consoles either at cost of at a loss, even late into its lifespan, makes sense. That just seems like a gamble based on what we know about consoles.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

[Brian]

 

[SimpleG]

 

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

 

 

 

I am so confused , what does this have to with the case at hand?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I am so confused , what does this have to with the case at hand?

 

"Apple Tries Really Hard To Get Epic To Admit There's Porn On Its Store"

Apple Tries Really Hard To Get Epic To Admit There's Porn On Its Store

KOTAKU.COM

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Is there porn on the Epic Games Store? Seems like a pretty easy “yes” or “no” question. Today, however, the ongoing, increasingly contentious Epic v. Apple court case showed us that actually it’s possible to have a nearly 10-minute...

 

 

 

[chakoo]

2 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

 

There is probably quite a few of these that Apple hasn’t informed the public on. Ages ago (10ish years?) a boss showed me how Game Center use to send people’s Apple passwords as plain text over http. There was also token security issues around apple’s SSO (sign in with Apple) when it first launched. 

[Ghost_MH]

14 minutes ago, chakoo said:

There is probably quite a few of these that Apple hasn’t informed the public on. Ages ago (10ish years?) a boss showed me how Game Center use to send people’s Apple passwords as plain text over http. There was also token security issues around apple’s SSO (sign in with Apple) when it first launched. 

 

I use to work at a security company and I remember how laughable some of Apple's decisions were. Like the way iPhones had a habit of automatically connecting to any open wireless network and broadcasting their info to see if it was a free and/or public hotspot. Best part? I worked for that company like six years ago. We informed Apple. The issue had literally only gotten worse...

 

This ‘Magical Bug’ Exposed Any iPhone in a Hacker's Wi-Fi Range | WIRED

WWW.WIRED.COM

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A Google researcher found flaws in Apple's AWDL protocol that would have allowed for a complete device takeover.

 

 

So yeah. I don't believe for a second that Apple is as forthcoming about security breaches as they would like people to think.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

[Ghost_MH]

The best part of all of this. I like that Apple is pretending it moderates the content of apps within its store. It's as if Reddit doesn't have an iOS app.

[johnny]

what is this lawsuit even about 

[Keyser_Soze]

11 minutes ago, johnny said:

what is this lawsuit even about 

 

[Ghost_MH]

48 minutes ago, johnny said:

what is this lawsuit even about 

 

Apple is trying to argue that allowing other app stores onto iOS would open the platform to offensive and pornographic material. I mean, sure half of Reddit is offensive and pornographic and sure there a regular old Internet browser, but think of the kids.

 

This line is easily Apple's worse. I don't know why they're even bothering.

[Littleronin]

I can't be the only one that loves how much crap on companies is being brought out during this. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

10 hours ago, Littleronin said:

I can't be the only one that loves how much crap on companies is being brought out during this. 

 

ALL of us are enjoying this immensely!

[chakoo]

On 5/8/2021 at 1:10 AM, Littleronin said:

I can't be the only one that loves how much crap on companies is being brought out during this. 

 

I'm enjoying the court case and all the information coming out from it. How ever, I'm not enjoying the god awful hot takes by idiots online. Especially the ones who think epic winning means their iPhone instantly will become un-secure and full of viruses.  

[TwinIon]

On 5/7/2021 at 10:10 PM, Littleronin said:

I can't be the only one that loves how much crap on companies is being brought out during this. 

Best part of all this for sure.

 

A lot of it is stuff we already "knew" but could never be sure. Like Apple saying they didn't want to bring iMessage to Android for fear that parents would buy their kids Android phones or Microsoft saying they've never made money selling Xbox hardware.

 

I'm also enjoying a lot of "how the sausage is made" kinda stuff around the App Store. Apple has this reputation as such a friendly company, but you don't get to be the most valuable company on the planet by being nice to everyone, and seeing how ruthlessly they ensure that they get their cut of every dollar that flows through the iPhone hammers that point home.

 

Also, it's fun when a bunch of companies can just kind of air their grievances. Like MS not being able to put an Xcloud app on iOS or complaints about the App store review process.

 

I've never expected Epic to win any real concessions in the end, but all these documents and details have been wonderful.

[Guest]

 

it’s a good thing I’ve got a damn near unlimited supply of popcorn because this is me everyday reading the latest developments

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

 

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

This was an actual exchange during today's testimony:

[Guest]

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Adi's live-tweeting of today's proceedings:

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

 

 

About an hour of today's testimony was devoted to describing various aspects of Fortnite.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

 

[Ghost_MH]

Apple is being wildly arbitrary here. Tinder is giving you access to people. How is that a digital good and how it's Apple inserting itself in such a way as to prove delivery of such digital good? However, Apple still charges a percentage for other clearly not digital goods. Apple charges their 30% on small events like a highschool play advertised on Facebook. However, they don't charge that 30% for tickets to, like, Wicked. Neither are digital goods, but Apple treats both differently.

[Ghost_MH]

Epic v. Apple keeps coming back to the gap between ignorance and inconvenience

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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Should cab drivers be able to give out phone numbers?

 

 

If nothing more than the bullshit policy of refusing to allow developers to redirect users to a webpage for payments or subscriptions is all we get out of this lawsuit, I'd consider that a win.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

20 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

Epic v. Apple keeps coming back to the gap between ignorance and inconvenience

WWW.THEVERGE.COM

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Should cab drivers be able to give out phone numbers?

 

 

If nothing more than the bullshit policy of refusing to allow developers to redirect users to a webpage for payments or subscriptions is all we get out of this lawsuit, I'd consider that a win.

 

The judge does appear very interested in exploring this as an avenue of recourse.

[Ghost_MH]

TIL that Apple doesn't consider Roblox to be a game and that's why they allow Roblox to get around they're so review process.

 

Why Roblox’s definition of “games” is key to the Epic vs. Apple case

ARSTECHNICA.COM

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The line between "game" and "experience" has major implications for iOS App Review.

 

I'm sure Roblox having millions of active iOS players spending millions of dollars on inapp purchases has nothing to do with it.

[TwinIon]

I've been reading reporters' twitter threads as they've been sitting in the trial, and my own take away is that it's difficult for Apple to entirely defend their in-app purchases rules to this judge.

 

 

That's a pretty wild assertion, founded on the idea that they're owed a commission for anything happening inside an app.

 

But they're not really able to back it up. It seems like they have a fine argument for why they think their solution is good for the customer, but a poor answer for why they deserve a cut of every transaction that happens on the phone.

 

Or later when the judge mentions banking apps, pointing out that Apple doesn't charge a fee when transacting with their bank. The more you break it down, the more arbitrary it seems that Apple claims an absolute right to money that changes hands on their platform, but only for very specific types of things.

 

I don't know if that is enough for Epic to win, but I'm starting to think the judge will find a way to at least loosen some restrictions.

[Ghost_MH]

2 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I've been reading reporters' twitter threads as they've been sitting in the trial, and my own take away is that it's difficult for Apple to entirely defend their in-app purchases rules to this judge.

 

 

That's a pretty wild assertion, founded on the idea that they're owed a commission for anything happening inside an app.

 

But they're not really able to back it up. It seems like they have a fine argument for why they think their solution is good for the customer, but a poor answer for why they deserve a cut of every transaction that happens on the phone.

 

Or later when the judge mentions banking apps, pointing out that Apple doesn't charge a fee when transacting with their bank. The more you break it down, the more arbitrary it seems that Apple claims an absolute right to money that changes hands on their platform, but only for very specific types of things.

 

I don't know if that is enough for Epic to win, but I'm starting to think the judge will find a way to at least loosen some restrictions.

 

This judge had already phoned in that Apple's rules disallowing developers from linking out to websites or even advertising it stinks of anticompetitive behavior and might be a good compromise here. Apple didn't have any good answers in regards to why allowing that behavior was bad for consumers or developers, but plenty on why it was bad business for Apple.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Apple Accuses Microsoft of Using Epic in Legal Attack

FINANCE.YAHOO.COM

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(Bloomberg) -- Apple Inc. injected a new level of intrigue in its bitter court fight with Epic Games Inc., suggesting the Fortnite maker was acting as a stalking horse for Microsoft Corp. and withholding evidence.The iPhone maker made the accusations Wednesday night in a filing asking a judge to make an adverse credibility finding against Lori Wright, an Xbox executive who testified in the trial on behalf of Epic. That would mean the judge could...

 

[chakoo]

I'd be ecstatic if at minimum the judge slaps down anti steering. Their input payment argument doesn't fly when so much of the web has this and already uses the same small handful of services. It's also BS that if by some fluke people can find 7 pages deep in a support/FAQ that subscriptions/payment are managed through the website your app could get denied updates or pulled from the app store (this has happen multiple times).

 

 

[TwinIon]

Looks like they're done arguing, seems like we shouldn't expect a ruling for a couple months?

 

Seems pretty bad for Epic that there's basically no precedent for the government doing what they're asking for.

 

Still seems like anti-steering is by far their best hope, with a very very outside chance at changing IAP rules. Allowing App Stores within App Stores seems unlikely, and allowing side-loaded apps feels next to impossible.