Should schools reopen before the pandemic abates?

[ort]

It's really hard. It's a really hard decision. My oldest plays hockey... (he's only 10 but plays at a very competitive cut throat level) and we're supposed to have tryouts in a few weeks and he hasn't even touched the ice in like 4 months. All summer long, all I've been seeing is all the other hockey parents sending their kids to hockey camps, training programs, etc... everyone is just spinning everything up. I can't imagine skipping a year of hockey and thinking about what that will do to his development. It's complicated, but it would basically be throwing away a huge amount of the work and time we've been putting into this for years now. What do I do? Skip the year? Not try out? And watch all of his teammates go on and play like nothing is happening? What if nothing does happen? What if it would be fine? What if I'm worrying for nothing... BUT, what if I send him and we all get sick? Hockey is his entire life. It's a huge part of my life. What am I supposed to be doing here?

[BloodyHell]

I get that it’s difficult, but we’re asking teachers, many of whom are older and trying to make it to their pension, to take a chance at death for shit pay that they have to fight to get. 
 

i know a few teachers, and they are absolutely not ok with going back.

[BloodyHell]

3 minutes ago, ort said:

It's really hard. It's a really hard decision. My oldest plays hockey, (he plays in a very competitive level with NHL players kids and literal millionaires...) and we're supposed to have tryouts in a few weeks and he hasn't even touched the ice in like 4 months. All summer long, all I've been seeing is all the other hockey parents sending their kids to hockey camps, training programs, etc... everyone is just spinning everything up. I can't imagine skipping a year of hockey and thinking about what that will do to his development. It would basically be throwing away a huge amount of the work and time we've been putting into this for years now. What do I do? Skip the year? Not try out? And watch all of his teammates go on and play like nothing is happening? What if nothing does happen? What if it would be fine? What if I send him and we all get sick? Hockey is his entire life. It's a huge part of my life. What am I supposed to be doing here?

How old is he? 

[ort]

I edited my post a little. He's 11 next month.

 

He plays 12U (Pee Wee) hockey.

[BloodyHell]

15 minutes ago, ort said:

I edited my post a little. He's 11 next month.

 

He plays 12U (Pee Wee) hockey.

I mean, its a tough call. If ge really has a shot at pro hockey, it would be hard not to let him. If the family is healthy, id make him understand that he gets to play hockey, but no other contact with his non hockey friends, and no social events for the team, for his own safety. 
 

there were no arenas -or anything else- where I grew up, so it wouldn’t be a concern. And my son did bass fishing, archery and rock climbing, and he’s 18 now, so it wouldn’t have been much of a problem. Your issue is far more complex. 

[Guest]

Getting your kid out of hockey for any reason is good for his long term health.

[Slug]

47 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I get that it’s difficult, but we’re asking teachers, many of whom are older and trying to make it to their pension, to take a chance at death for shit pay that they have to fight to get. 
 

i know a few teachers, and they are absolutely not ok with going back.

At the risk of sounding like a complete ass (and maybe playing a little devil's advocate here since I am in favor of distance learning wherever possible during all this),  but what is different in your mind between teachers and any other "essential worker"?  Underpaid, possibly elderly, indoors with the general public all day, etc. workers should be asked to take a chance at death or illness if it's for our dry-cleaning, groceries, beer, car repair, convenience stores, fast-food, delivery, and so on, but not teachers?  Why not?  Why, in this regard, are they more deserving of consideration over say, Steve in the electronics department?  Have any of these teachers you know gone shopping in the last few months?  How do they justify the workers being there for them?

[DarkStar189]

This is the email I got this morning from our school district:

 

2020-2021 School Year - Phased Reopening Plan  

-Phase 1: From August 25 to September 18, all students will engage in Distance Learning 2.0. On September 10, a recommendation will be made to either remain in phase 1 or transition to phase 2 on September 21, 2020. 

-Phase 2: A segment of the student population will return to the building for in person instruction with priority given to elementary and high needs special education students. Throughout Phase 2, additional students and staff will return to school for in person instruction.

-Phase 3: Total reopening as outlined in accordance with state, federal, and health agencies.  Specific details will be shared in a revised District Health and Safety Plan prior to the start of Phase 3.

Phase 1 – Distance Learning 2.0

Based on feedback received from students, parents, and staff, Distance Learning in the fall will look very different from what was utilized in the spring.  

Distance Learning Changes
Streamlined Platforms (SeeSaw for elementary & Schoology for secondary)
Devices for All Students (K-12) with internet and technology support (hot spots, etc.)
Direct instruction and video lessons provided by West Shore teachers
Online Small Group and Collaborative Opportunities
Student support and services for students with Special Needs
Accountability (Graded Assignments, Assessments, Attendance Checks)
Counseling and Mental Health Support Services
Continuation of Free Grab-and-Go Bagged Meals Program

Next Steps
Collect additional feedback from families, teachers, and support staff to assist the District with our Phased Reopening Plans.
Communicate information with families regarding Distance Learning 2.0 (how it will impact CPAVTS, IEPs, etc.) and device/resource distribution.
Finalize the District’s Health and Safety Plan for approval by the Board and Pennsylvania Department of Education 

 

So in other words, they will start Phase 1, see things are only getting worse around the country and then just continue online learning the rest of the year. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, Slug said:

At the risk of sounding like a complete ass; maybe playing a little devil's advocate here since I am in favor of distance learning wherever possible during all this.  But what is different in your mind between teachers and any other "essential worker"?  Underpaid, possibly elderly, indoors with the general public all day, etc. workers should be asked to take a chance at death or illness if it's for our dry-cleaning, groceries, beer, car repair, convenience stores, fast-food, delivery, and so on, but not teachers?  Why not?  Why, in this regard, are they more deserving of consideration over say, Steve in the electronics department?  Have any of these teacher you know gone shopping in the last few months?  How do they justify the workers being there for them?

Teachers can't social distance themselves in order to do their jobs, and kids just won't. We already know that schools transmit relatively benign virii like the common cold and flu.

 

Further, any academic progress that is lost can be made up, if we make doing so a priority.

 

 

[Slug]

7 minutes ago, DarkStar189 said:

This is the email I got this morning from our school district:

Our school district put out a schedule for the school year with alternating weeks of 2-3 days. Week 1 "A" students will go Mon/Wed/Fri and "B" Students will go Tue/Thur.  The next week B goes MWF and A goes TT and so on, with some schedule jankiness thrown in for holidays.  They got a ton of blowback from the parents and then sent out an e-mail with a survey about online learning so they can 'gauge interest, but no promises'.

[Slug]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Teachers can't social distance themselves in order to do their jobs, and kids just won't. We already know that schools transmit relatively benign virii like the common cold and flu.

 

Further, any academic progress that is lost can be made up, if we make doing so a priority.

It makes me wish UBI and some minimum of socialized Internet-for-All were things.

[mclumber1]

1 minute ago, Slug said:

Our school district put out a schedule for the school year with alternating weeks of 2-3 days. Week 1 "A" students will go Mon/Wed/Fri and "B" Students will go Tue/Thur.  The next week B goes MWF and A goes TT and so on, with some schedule jankiness thrown in for holidays.  They got a ton of blowback from the parents and then sent our an e-mail with a survey about online learning so they can 'gauge interest, but no promises'.

The problem with that method is you are still potentially not allowing enough time to let the virus die (or be cleaned) on surfaces and potentially in the air.  At the very least, it should be 1 week at school, and 1 week at home.  This gives the entire weekend for the virus to decay or be cleaned before a new set of students sets foot into a school or a given classroom. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just imagine where we'd be if we just did that starting back in March when the first checks went out! Just kept doing that and there wouldn't be the push to open up

[Guest]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Just imagine where we'd be if we just did that starting back in March when the first checks went out! Just kept doing that and there wouldn't be the push to open up

Welllllll, now, we shouldn’t use the resources of the wealthiest nation in the world so frivolously. People will get lazy.

[skillzdadirecta]

This is not a "Yes" or "No" question as there are a lot of factors to consider but right now, in THIS country? If the question is should "In Person Learning Resume before the pandemic is over" then the answer is definitely NO. Some parts of the country, particularly some counties with low cases and community spread could probably do it with some precautions. For the most part no though.  Teachers and support staff would be at risk as would the vulnerable family members of the children.

 

My sister started sending my nephew back to daycare here in Jersey for god knows what ever reason and my parents allowed her to do it. So far so good... but I did go to get my second COVID test yesterday. We'll see what my results are in 7 days 

[johnny]

I’m a teacher and don’t want schools to re-open. Whoever said this thing is lose-lose is right. I don’t see why I’m supposed to step up for the kids when the government should be doing it. I honestly don’t see how the schools will stay open once covid goes around, which it will. And am I going to get any hazard pay? Lol fuck no, a lot of teachers don’t even get paid what they’re worth anyways. And the places doing in class and online, is this going to be more work? And if so, will we get more pay? Lmao 
 

I feel bad for the kids and know the parents are in a fucked up situation, but it shouldn’t fall on me. Go yell at the government for making things worse. I WISH I could safely be in the classroom because I really like my job. But I’m not risking my life or anybody else’s so I can act as a babysitter for some of these parents. Plus, the kids that I teach are old enough to stay at home by themselves. Elementary is where this is a problem. 

[ort]

15 minutes ago, Slug said:

Our school district put out a schedule for the school year with alternating weeks of 2-3 days. Week 1 "A" students will go Mon/Wed/Fri and "B" Students will go Tue/Thur.  The next week B goes MWF and A goes TT and so on, with some schedule jankiness thrown in for holidays.  They got a ton of blowback from the parents and then sent out an e-mail with a survey about online learning so they can 'gauge interest, but no promises'.

 

These plans don't make sense to me. It's like, okay, we've got two really bad options... which one should we pick... I know! BOTH!

 

We can completely fuck up parents work lives and also endanger our children and teachers! Hooray! Everyone loses!

[DarkStar189]

13 minutes ago, Slug said:

Our school district put out a schedule for the school year with alternating weeks of 2-3 days. Week 1 "A" students will go Mon/Wed/Fri and "B" Students will go Tue/Thur.  The next week B goes MWF and A goes TT and so on, with some schedule jankiness thrown in for holidays.  They got a ton of blowback from the parents and then sent out an e-mail with a survey about online learning so they can 'gauge interest, but no promises'.

Another school district in my area is proposing something similar. The kids get sorted into 2 groups, 1 group goes Monday/Tuesday, the 2nd group goes Wed/Thurs, and Friday everyone learns from home. It all sounds messy no matter what. 

[Slug]

Just now, ort said:

 

These plans don't make sense to me. It's like, okay, we've got two really bad options... which one should we pick... I know! BOTH!

 

We can completely fuck up parents work lives and also endanger our children and teachers! Hooray! Everyone loses!

Yeah, we were all, "Did you guys even think this through or were you just trying to come up with any "plan" at all because there was a deadline to submit a plan?"

[ort]

I have a teacher friend who is on one of these committees. He says the goal they are shooting for is having 1/3 of parents opt out, and then have the other 2/3 go every other day, so the schools will all be 1/3 full and kids go every other day.

 

I mean, I guess, but that also sucks. That's the problem, every possible solution sucks.

 

I don't have a good answer. There isn't one. That's the problem.

[skillzdadirecta]

This happened in Utah at a meeting about this very issue.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-public-hearing-schools-dismissed-angry-parents-pack/story?id=71825487

[GeneticBlueprint]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

This happened in Utah at a meeting about this very issue.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-public-hearing-schools-dismissed-angry-parents-pack/story?id=71825487

 

 

[marioandsonic]

My mom is a teacher, so I'm worried about her having to go back.  I don't know what the plan is for her school.

[rc0101]

My kids school just said they are aiming for 100% reopening. 

 

so what am I supposed to do, hold my kids out a year and have them a year behind their current friends and classmates. 
 

there is about a month left until school is supposed to start here so I’m guessing it will get worse.... Maybe that will force them to change their plans. 

[BloodyHell]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Getting your kid out of hockey for any reason is good for his long term health.

This is ridiculous. The vast majority of hockey players live long, happy lives, they get hit hard, but not constantly like football players. 

[Mr.Vic20]

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

This is ridiculous. The vast majority of hockey players live long, happy lives, they get hit hard, but not constantly like football players. 

You are Apoc 

 

Sports that generate concussions regularly dumb down kids. Hockey doesn’t have to be as bad as Football to still be bad for your long term health.

[mclumber1]

Football should be played without helmets and minimal padding. All helmets do is encourage players to hit harder, causing more head injuries. 

[BloodyHell]

What? Im an American who loves sports. Basketball, baseball, hockey, football, golf. Im just against the nanny culture of telling others how to raise their kids. 
 

getting hit in the head is never good, but CTE isn’t running rampant in most sports. I never had the chance to play, but I bever would have denied my kid the chance if that was his thing.

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Football should be played without helmets and minimal padding. All helmets do is encourage players to hit harder, causing more head injuries. 

Thats a bit overboard. Helmets still protect from catastrophic immediate damaga.

[ort]

Hockey isn't anywhere near football levels. Yes, it's a contact sport and can be pretty rough, but it's not that bad. We understand the risks. We may not do it forever.

 

 

 

They haven't even started hitting yet, that comes in 2 years. My son can't wait for hitting anyway... because he's guy on the right playing against kids who literally weight half as much as he does. He's 10 and weighs 135 pounds and built like a tank. He's just big and strong. Most of the kids on his team are around the 70-90 lbs range. He's a textbook hockey power forward.

[TwinIon]

I keep seeing statistics about how few children die of Covid as an argument to re-open schools, but I feel like that's at least partially missing the point. If you're talking about death rates, you've already conceded that kids will be infected, and at that point unless the kids raise themselves and can be quarantined, they're very likely to spread it to at least their immediate family. I recognize all the many reasons that it sucks for parents to not be able to send their kids to school, but this is just one of the many terrible things we have to deal with as a result of not taking sufficient steps in the early stages of the pandemic.

[Joe]

16 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

What? Im an American who loves sports. Basketball, baseball, hockey, football, golf. Im just against the nanny culture of telling others how to raise their kids. 
 

getting hit in the head is never good, but CTE isn’t running rampant in most sports. I never had the chance to play, but I bever would have denied my kid the chance if that was his thing.

 

How do you feel about Traeger grills and Batman?

[ort]

Exactly 100%. The kids aren't gonna die, but they will bring it home. They will spread it.

 

We're only as safe as the weakest link in the chain. Who knows what the other parents are doing. They could be having key parties for all we know.

 

And we have no idea what the long term effects of this are. We're seeing all sorts of reports of long term damage... maybe the kids won't die but will have a lifetime of lung damage? We just don't know and I don't want to be part of some sort of grand experiment.

 

Trump should send Barron to public school or he should shut the fuck up.

[CitizenVectron]

37 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Football should be played without helmets and minimal padding. All helmets do is encourage players to hit harder, causing more head injuries. 

 

33 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Thats a bit overboard. Helmets still protect from catastrophic immediate damaga.

 

On the one hand, no padding means that people play smarted, and there is less extreme, regular violence. On the other hand, it means that when accidents do happen, people get severely injured. The best solution is to bar any physical contact. No checking in hockey, no tackles in football.