Andrew Cuomo appears to have taken leave of his senses

[Guest]

33,000

[sexy_shapiro]

8 hours ago, Jose said:

You could argue Cuomo acted a bit late, sure, but since then he has handled the situation exceptionally well. He was handed the absolute worst situation in the country and those that do no acknowledge that to not deserve to be taken seriously.

Absolutely. He kinda sucks as a person, but credit should be given where credit is due. I can also appreciate him much more because I’m still living under DeSantis.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

As Americans we're such cucks for bad governance

[Joe]

9 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

As Americans we're such cucks for bad governance

 

Bernie almost won the Democratic nomination, so you might be on to something there.

[skillzdadirecta]

voters are figuring out who's responsible for the mess we're in

 

Quote

A quartet of universities released a survey Wednesday of public opinion in all 50 states on President Trump’s and governors’ response to the coronavirus pandemic. The pollsters found:

First, the average governor has experienced a 10-point decline in approval from late April to late June, and in only 5 states — Hawaii, Michigan, New Jersey, South Dakota and Vermont — have governors’ approval ratings increased since late April. In the remaining states, approval has declined. . . . Only one governor — Governor Doug Ducey of Arizona — now has an approval rating in their state lower than that of the president.

Considering the abysmal conditions in Arizona, Ducey’s ratings seem to be well-earned. State governors in the Midwest, Northeast and West, who addressed the initial onslaught aggressively, still have high approval ratings, despite recent declines. In New York, for example Democratic Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo’s approval rating has ranged between 65 and 70 percent since April; although governors in California (70 percent down to 58 percent) and Ohio (81 down to 66) slipped, they still have enviable approval ratings when it comes to their handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

 

By contrast, governors in states that generally followed President Trump’s lead (e.g., slow to close, early to open) have poor ratings. The pollsters found that of the 10 governors with approval ratings below 45 percent, “eight are Republicans in Republican-leaning states.” That includes Ron DeSantis of Florida and Brian Kemp of Georgia, who are both at 43 percent; even lower is Republican Kim Reynolds of Iowa at 37 percent. Republican Greg Abbott of Texas dropped from 60 percent to 44 percent.

 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

As Americans we're such cucks for bad governance

What is the over/under on years before NYT runs an article reconsidering whether Trump was a actually a terrible president?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

27 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

Bernie almost won the Democratic nomination, so you might be on to something there.

Cuomo and deblasio's failures to act early not only cost the lives of tens of thousands but helped facilitate the rapid spread of the virus throughout the country. That they haven't resigned is a disgrace, and an indication of state failure. Most, if not all, governor's are in the same boat, along with the vast majority of the trump administration in this regard. Hell I'd argue almost all elected officials should resign in light of the current failure of state.

 

If he won't resign over the deaths of tens of thousands, it doesn't bode well for more banal issues like how We still don't have all ballots counted from the NY primary that happened weeks ago, and may not still know for weeks. 

 

Who gives a fuck about Bernie jfc

[SaysWho?]

9 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again... New Yorkers disagree with you guys  

 

I've been saying this for ages to Republicans here in Florida who live in a bubble.

 

Here, DeSantis was one of the few whose approval rating dropped when this started. Of course, it also doesn't help when you yell at reporters who questioned your decisions, yelling "herp derp that surge in cases never happened" trying to impress your orange and religious cult buddies in the West Wing, then go on Fox News to take a fucking victory lap, and then things start to close again because you suck.

 

 

[skillzdadirecta]

13 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

What is the over/under on years before NYT runs an article reconsidering whether Trump was a actually a terrible president?

I dunno... I'm sure someone would write that article at some point. I can't point to a specific one but I'm sure there have been articles like that written about Bush II even though Republicans generally pretend his presidency didn't happen. Some columnist taking a contrarian viewpoint in order to get readers proves what exactly? That our journalistic outlets are more interested in sensationalism than actual honest journalism? Sure I'd buy that!

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Cuomo and deblasio's failures to act early not only cost the lives of tens of thousands but helped facilitate the rapid spread of the virus throughout the country. That they haven't resigned is a disgrace, and an indication of state failure. Most, if not all, governor's are in the same boat, along with the vast majority of the trump administration in this regard. Hell I'd argue almost all elected officials should resign in light of the current failure of state.

 

If he won't resign over the deaths of tens of thousands, it doesn't bode well for more banal issues like how We still don't have all ballots counted from the NY primary that happened weeks ago, and may not still know for weeks. 

 

Who gives a fuck about Bernie jfc

 

No one cares about Bernie, but I knew how to goad you into making a more substantive post than "derp derp cuck derp", and boy was I ever right! Will respond in a bit. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

I don't want you to waste too much time on Cuomo but it is a nice, easy sign of state failure that he's held up as the paragon of good governance when under his watch tens of thousands of preventable deaths were had and there are 0 serious calls for his resignation! He gets good marks for cleaning up his own mess!

[Joe]

3 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I don't want you to waste too much time on Cuomo but it is a nice, easy sign of state failure that he's held up as the paragon of good governance when under his watch tens of thousands of preventable deaths were had and there are 0 serious calls for his resignation! He gets good marks for cleaning up his own mess!

 

 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/seattles-leaders-let-scientists-take-the-lead-new-yorks-did-not

 

I'll point you to this article which people love to cite, but I do not think many have actually bothered to read the article. Had they actually read the article, it actually underscores how little of an effect Jay Inslee and Andrew Cuomo had on their states' respective outcomes:

 

Quote

While the logistics of classroom closures were being worked out, Constantine contacted Brad Smith, the president of Microsoft—which is headquartered in Redmond, east of Seattle—and asked him to consider ordering employees to work from home. “Microsoft is a big deal here,” Constantine told me. “I thought if they told everyone to stay home it could shift how the state was thinking—make the pandemic real.” Microsoft, as a tech company, was poised to switch quickly to remote work, and could demonstrate to other businesses that the transition could occur smoothly. On March 4th, with only twelve known covid-19 fatalities across the nation and no diagnoses among Microsoft workers, the company told employees to stay home if they could. Smith told me, “King County has a strong reputation for excellent public-health experts, and the worst thing we could have done is substitute our judgment for the expertise of people who have devoted their lives to serving the public.” Amazon, which is also headquartered in the area, told many of its local employees to work from home as well. “That’s a hundred thousand people suddenly staying home,” one Seattle resident told me. “From commute traffic alone, you knew something big had happened.”

 

 

Quote

By the time Seattle’s schools were formally closed, on March 11th, students and teachers were already abandoning their classrooms. The messaging had worked: parents were voluntarily keeping their kids home. Cell-phone tracking data showed that, in the preceding week, the number of people going to work had dropped by a quarter. Within days, even before Washington’s governor, Jay Inslee, issued official work-from-home orders, almost half of Seattle’s workers were voluntarily staying away from their offices. When bars and restaurants were officially closed, on March 15th, many of them were already empty. Constantine himself had been working from home for a week.

 

 

You folks still think Inslee issuing his stay-at-home order a few days before Cuomo had much of an effect on anything(Edit: He actually issued it after!)? No, of course not. Name me one employer the size of Amazon in NYC that issued a work from home order before the state did. This had very little to do with governance and everything to do with a community in Seattle that reacted far more quickly to data than the community in NYC did.

[Joe]

@b_m_b_m_b_m

 

By the way, I know you're a huge proponent of circulated air having more of an affect on COVID spread than density (actually both are factors), well guess which city is far and away (by magnitudes!) more reliant on public transportation than any in the country:

 

 

The spread happened in February and NYC was always going to have the worst outcome in the country in terms of cases per capita and CFR. Arguing otherwise is absurd.

[Jason]

To be clear, only NYC, not the rest of NY. 

 

 

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

To be clear, only NYC, not the rest of NY. 

 

 

 

I mean it makes sense. There were photos and videos everywhere on social media of people loitering in the streets drinking without masks. Seemed like a terrible idea to allow bars to operate like that in the first place.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Jose said:

 

I mean it makes sense. There were photos and video everywhere on social media of people loitering in the streets drinking without masks. Seemed like a terrible idea to allow bars to operate like that in the first place.

 

 

[Joe]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

 

What's changed is you can't loiter and drink in front of the bar anymore.

[Jason]

Refusing to let places just do table service for drinks without food is incredibly dumb.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/108-20/transcript-mayor-de-blasio-governor-cuomo-hold-media-availability-the-first-confirmed-case-of

You can't read this and think that they had no way to influence media, and thus public, perception of the issue. They aren't just some guys, they're the supposed leaders making bold pronouncements like 

Quote

They have symptoms, the symptoms are similar to what you would have with the normal flu, and for most people, they treat themselves, over 80 percent, and the virus resolves that way. About 20 percent get ill. The mortality rate is estimated to be about 1.4 percent. 1.4 percent, what does that mean? The normal flu mortality rate is about 0.6 percent, and the CDC says 1.4, but they’re extrapolating from what we know from countries around the world.

He was "just the flu bro"-ing on March 2

 

And confidently stating

Quote

We don’t believe that she was contagious when she was on the plane, or when she took a private car from the airport to her residence.

It can both be true that he fucked up messaging from the start, and bad policy weeks into the pandemic, but recovered once things got out of hand.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

38 minutes ago, Jose said:

@b_m_b_m_b_m

 

By the way, I know you're a huge proponent of circulated air having more of an affect on COVID spread than density (actually both are factors), well guess which city is far and away (by magnitudes!) more reliant on public transportation than any in the country:

 

 

The spread happened in February and NYC was always going to have the worst outcome in the country in terms of cases per capita and CFR. Arguing otherwise is absurd.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/navajo-nation-infection-rate-trnd/index.html

"Absurd"

[Joe]

13 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/108-20/transcript-mayor-de-blasio-governor-cuomo-hold-media-availability-the-first-confirmed-case-of

You can't read this and think that they had no way to influence media, and thus public, perception of the issue. They aren't just some guys, they're the supposed leaders making bold pronouncements like 

He was "just the flu bro"-ing on March 2

 

And confidently stating

It can both be true that he fucked up messaging from the start, and bad policy weeks into the pandemic, but recovered once things got out of hand.

 

 

Again, he locked down the state earlier than almost every state in the nation. I'm not saying that he has been perfect, but to act like he's been horrible or that other governors were substantially better is wrong-headed.

[mclumber1]

Alcohol delivery needs to be a thing nationwide.  It's crazy that any state is allowing bars to be open to the public. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Who says other governor's don't also need to resign?

 

Almost the entirety of the government from top to bottom needs to resign. Such a massive failure everywhere. Cuomo just has the best media coverage so it's easy to go after him.

[skillzdadirecta]

10 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/navajo-nation-infection-rate-trnd/index.html

"Absurd"

Umm doesn't this article prove the point that population density has an affect on transmission reinforcing what @Jose is saying?

 

Quote

Another reason for the large number of cases is that multiple generations live in one home, Nez said. "When one person gets Covid, goes home, they turn to infect the rest of the family," Nez said. Additionally, 30% to 40% of residents do not have running water, Nez said. That prevents everyone from being able to wash their hands as often as recommended.

 

I mean isn't that the definition of "Population density"?

 

1 minute ago, mclumber1 said:

Alcohol delivery needs to be a thing nationwide.  It's crazy that any state is allowing bars to be open to the public. 

 Agreed.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

That's not population density like what you associate with new york.

 

I've never disputed that congregant crowding is a cause of spread. I previously used grocery stores as an example of how disease could spread in rural areas! But city density in and of itself has little to do with spread. See Seoul on one hand, and the Navajo nation on the other.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

That's not population density like what you associate with new york.

 

I've never disputed that congregant crowding is a cause of spread. I previously used grocery stores as an example of how disease could spread in rural areas! But city density in and of itself has little to do with spread. See Seoul on one hand, and the Navajo nation on the other.

 

And you don't think NYC has a high amount of congregant crowding? Also, there's no evidence that city density in and of itself has little to do with spread. Citing two outliers does not prove any kind of point; it just shows you don't really understand how to analyze data. Plus, that's assuming Seoul is even an outlier, which I would dispute because there are a ton of extenuating factors that prevented spread from happening in Seoul. 

[Joe]

Korea, like Japan, had a mask-wearing culture before the virus hit and had an advanced contact-tracing system in place before Americans even knew wtf contact-tracing was. Seriously, stop citing Seoul; it's a terrible example.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Famously sparse Manhattan with fewer cases on a per capita basis than dense Queens

[Joe]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Famously sparse Manhattan with fewer cases on a per capita basis than Queens

 

I never said density was the only variable. Guess who's more likely to spend a significant portion of their day in a subway car: a UES socialite or an undocumented worker from Jackson Heights going to work to wash dishes 6 times week? Bro, you'll never guess which one!

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

17 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

I never said density was the only variable. Guess who's more likely to spend a significant portion of their day in a subway car: a UES socialite or an undocumented worker from Jackson Heights going to work to wash dishes 6 times week. Bro, you'll never guess which one!

So who's more likely to be spending 6+ hours working in close contact with other people?

 

And why does Staten island, with the least transit access, have the second highest case rate of the 5 boroughs?

 

There's much more to cases and spread than population density and transit use.

 

And had the state and city government worked sooner much more could have been avoided

[Joe]

5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

So who's more likely to be spending 6+ hours working in close contact with other people?

 

And why does Staten island, with the least transit access, have the second highest case rate of the 5 boroughs?

 

There's much more to cases and spread than population density and transit use.

 

And had the state and city government worked sooner much more could have been avoided

 

 

Of course there's much more, but they are important factors, especially in NYC's case. In general, citing where a person lives in NYC is flawed and not indicative of much. At my family's restaurant in Chelsea, I would say about 80% of the workforce was from Queens. They spent much more time in subways and working in Manhattan than they ever did in their apartments.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

50 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

That's not population density like what you associate with new york.

 

I've never disputed that congregant crowding is a cause of spread. I previously used grocery stores as an example of how disease could spread in rural areas! But city density in and of itself has little to do with spread. See Seoul on one hand, and the Navajo nation on the other.

 

Comparing Asian cities to Western ones isn't the same though, right? Seoul and Hong Kong may be just as dense or even more dense than New York but the behaviors in Asian cities and countries are entirely different. They don't touch each other nearly as much as we do... no handshaking or things like that and they have been wearing masks since before Covid was even a thing.

 

36 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Famously sparse Manhattan with fewer cases on a per capita basis than dense Queens

 

How much do you actually know about New York besides what you read on a screen? People who actually LIVE in Manhattan are actually more capable of sheltering in place and quarantining because they more than likely had jobs that enabled them to work from home and they didn't need to take mass transit as much particularly the subways. People who lived in the outer boroughs, mostly black and brown people but also white people too, were more than likely still taking mass transit and COULDN'T shelter in place and stay home.

 

15 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

And why does Staten island, with the least transit access, have the second highest case rate of the 5 boroughs?

 

Couple of reasons could explain that... you have a bunch of very densely populated housing projects in Staten Island (Home of the Wu-Tang Clan) Despite that, Staten Island is VERY Red... it's like the Orange County of NY so it makes sense that they would have ignored/been resistant to a lot of the preventative measures that would have slowed the spread there. 

 

as @Jose Population Density and Mass Transit aren't the only things that contribute to spread but they ARE significant factors along with behavior of the population. As he said, to argue against that when all evidence says contrary is indeed.. absurd.

 

6 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

 

Of course there's much more, but they are important factors, especially in NYC's case. In general, citing where a person lives in NYC is flawed and not indicative of much. At my family's restaurant in Chelsea, I would say about 80% of the workforce was from Queens. They spent much more time in subways and working in Manhattan than they ever did in their apartments.

 

 

When things open back up I would love to check out your fam's restaurant. What kind of food is it? What's the specialty?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

For clarity, I never said it was not a factor, in fact a study on H1N1 showed that about 10% of cases can be traced back to the subway in NYC, but that there is nothing inherent about high density cities or transit use that makes them more likely to have outbreaks than rural and/or car based transportation systems. Being in close proximity to people matters more than why you're close. And as the spread continues to go wild in FL, TX, and AZ this will continue to be true.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

For clarity, I never said it was not a factor, in fact a study on H1N1 showed that about 10% of cases can be traced back to the subway in NYC, but that there is nothing inherent about high density cities or transit use that makes them more likely to have outbreaks than rural and/or car based transportation systems. Being in close proximity to people matters more than why you're close. And as the spread continues to go wild in FL, TX, and AZ this will continue to be true.

If you are in close proximity to people, and sniffing all that recirculated air during your commute, how is that not more of a challenge with regards to the spread of disease than if you aren’t?

 

Look at the sorta of industries that have been the sites of company wide infections? Also more likely to be places where people work in close proximity to others and inside.

[Joe]

27 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

When things open back up I would love to check out your fam's restaurant. What kind of food is it? What's the specialty?

 

Cuisine from Spain, though Spanish-American would be more accurate. The paellas we were slinging were definitely not authentic, though I still liked 'em. Unfortunately though, the restaurant has been closed since 2018. My father sold out his lease to a big hotel group in NYC in 2014, and they subsequently closed the restaurant a few years later to finish the renovations in the hotel.

 

By the way, if you've seen "If Beale Street Could Talk", you have seen the restaurant. I signed that deal literally months before the restaurant closed, which I was super happy about.

 

Howeva! My uncle's restaurant is still around in the West Village. They actually made it on EyeWitness News 7 because they are trying unsuccessfully to move the CitiBikes in front of their restaurant blocking them from having outdoor dining. Seems like the city might now listen as Sarah Jessica Parker has recently gotten involved.

 

https://abc7ny.com/genes-restaurant-outdoor-dining-west-village-restaurants/6317089/