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Update: The Last of Us Part II "sold through" to end-consumers more than 4 million copies in three days, the fastest-selling Sony game on PS4


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 https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-06-22-the-last-of-us-2-is-sonys-biggest-playstation-4-launch-ever

 

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The Last of Us 2 is Sony's biggest launch this generation.

 

Purely on boxed copies, it pipped previous record holder and fellow Naughty Dog game Uncharted 4, which sold fractionally less during its own launch weekend.

 

It's likely many more people downloaded the game, although UK digital sales are not counted.

 

The Last of Us 2 has dethroned Animal Crossing: New Horizons as this year's biggest release so far, with launch weekend sales around 40 per cent higher than Nintendo's Switch exclusive.

 

Looks like the boycott and incel review bombs worked well. It could have sold 100% more than TLOU had the boycott not happened.

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For some reason, I had mentally categorized The Last of Us as a critical success that only sold "decent" numbers. But no, it was one of the biggest sellers on both PS3 and PS4, so I guess this isn't surprising. 

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43 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

For some reason, I had mentally categorized The Last of Us as a critical success that only sold "decent" numbers. But no, it was one of the biggest sellers on both PS3 and PS4, so I guess this isn't surprising. 

 

Yup! 20 million on both consoles as of October 2019, likely higher.

 

I was actually a little surprised when I read those figures, though I guess I shouldn't be? Maybe Uncharted just seems like something that would be more successful with a wider appeal. Then again, Uncharted 4 sold gangbusters as well (16 million).

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I really wanted to bite on Saturday but the first one unexpectedly quite affected me and it's mainly the grimy, eerie environmental storytelling I think. That last bit in that hospital really stuck with me, the environment is so dingy and Joel is such an unhinged mess at that point, I still have to wash the dirt off me before I dive into TLoU2 or something.

 

...so I bought Okami HD instead :derp:

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56 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

See you in 90 hours!

Holy shit, is it particularly long? I really don't know anything about it, just that I was REALLY in the mood for a much, much more lighthearted adventure style game after playing seemingly nothing but grim shit for months. 

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4 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Holy shit, is it particularly long? I really don't know anything about it, just that I was REALLY in the mood for a much, much more lighthearted adventure style game after playing seemingly nothing but grim shit for months. 

Nope.

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31 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Holy shit, is it particularly long? I really don't know anything about it, just that I was REALLY in the mood for a much, much more lighthearted adventure style game after playing seemingly nothing but grim shit for months. 

It is longer than it should be. I got burnt out by the end. 

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The absolutely insane outrage over this game on all sides really just highlights how far video games still have to go, and how meaningless modern games (and to an extent film) criticism is.  The internet, and the way that we consume media in particular seems to have rewired our brains to the point that people are completely incapable of thinking critically or understanding any sort of nuance.  Someone told me once that wisdom is being able to hold in your mind two contradictory or paradoxical ideas.  It's possible that The Last of Us II is a brilliant video game with a simple or underdeveloped story, or that it is a thoughtful depiction of queer romance in some respects but a poor one in others.  Or that Neil Druckmann has good intentions but is a bad project manager, or is a bad writer but a good creative director, and on and on and on (these are random examples).  But in the "take" economy, one aspect of a work must account for all other aspects, and it seems more and more that people are incapable of anything but the polar extremes of thought.

 

I'm delighted that this game is selling so well, rendering the repulsive hate campaign meaningless.  My early impression is that this is my favorite game from the past several years.  But it's exhausting to love video games and realize that the culture surrounding them is for the most part just absolute and embarrassing garbage.

 

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4 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I really wanted to bite on Saturday but the first one unexpectedly quite affected me and it's mainly the grimy, eerie environmental storytelling I think. That last bit in that hospital really stuck with me, the environment is so dingy and Joel is such an unhinged mess at that point, I still have to wash the dirt off me before I dive into TLoU2 or something.

 

...so I bought Okami HD instead :derp:

Okami is incredible, and it has one of my all-time favorite soundtracks.  Enjoy!  I can thank @Brick for my copy.  Thanks again!!

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1 hour ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

The absolutely insane outrage over this game on all sides really just highlights how far video games still have to go, and how meaningless modern games (and to an extent film) criticism is.  The internet, and the way that we consume media in particular seems to have rewired our brains to the point that people are completely incapable of thinking critically or understanding any sort of nuance.  Someone told me once that wisdom is being able to hold in your mind two contradictory or paradoxical ideas.  It's possible that The Last of Us II is a brilliant video game with a simple or underdeveloped story, or that it is a thoughtful depiction of queer romance in some respects but a poor one in others.  Or that Neil Druckmann has good intentions but is a bad project manager, or is a bad writer but a good creative director, and on and on and on (these are random examples).  But in the "take" economy, one aspect of a work must account for all other aspects, and it seems more and more that people are incapable of anything but the polar extremes of thought.

 

I'm delighted that this game is selling so well, rendering the repulsive hate campaign meaningless.  My early impression is that this is my favorite game from the past several years.  But it's exhausting to love video games and realize that the culture surrounding them is for the most part just absolute and embarrassing garbage.

 

 

While I agree with you, you are being far too fair to users/the audience. Critics (actual, real critics) universally praised The Last of Us Part II, and having played 13 hours or so, even if I didn't like or enjoy the story or characters because I don't get to live out some old white man prepper power fantasy, which I do, the technical aspects of the game are so top notch as to make the user rating on Metacritic seems laughable. The people user review bombing this game are the same ones who hated the end of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, couldn't stand The Last Jedi (which was successfully review bombed on RottenTomatoes), and did their damndest to hate films online like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel entering the superhero film space, much less being annoyed with films like Widows or Hustlers. There is a very clear lowest common denominator amongst all this incredulous, toxic, unearned hate and I think we can all see it all pretty clearly. 

 

Even setting aside their sexism and racism, the average person who consumes art hates to have their expectations messed with. They want stories to play out the way they want them to play out. It's why everyone hated Walter White's wife in Breaking Bad because she was an obstacle to his success in the illegal meth drug industry. But then if they bothered to think about it for two seconds, one would see it's an innocent wife trying to save her family from her slowly going dark husband. She's not an obstacle, she's the moral compass. Same thing happened with Don Draper's wife on Mad Men, being more annoyed with her than him, even though he's doing all the cheating and not being there for his family because audiences just want the power fantasy of Walter White or Don Draper just "winning" all the time against cool villains who almost but not quite beat them. 

 

Things like The Last Jedi, FF7R, The Last of Us Part II, etc. challenge all of that. It was why Avengers: Endgame was so universally loved even though I thought it was just okay. It was really well done but it played out exactly like one would more or less expect in terms of characters' dramatic arcs. Art like TLJ or FF7R push us in ways we don't like, or makes us uncomfortable, or isn't the way we saw things playing out, and I appreciate art that challenges us in this way more than things playing it safe. There's a real conversation to be had about whether TLJ or FF7R or TLOU Part II subvert and challenge expectations well and successfully (time usually only tells with this) or their gambits and storytelling choices didn't work, but to divest that conversation from the toxic user review bombing group who do it for all the wrong reasons is quite difficult and it's hard to separate it. Again, critics seem to be more objective here - they rated FF7R pretty well as well as TLJ and TLOU Part II and Wonder Woman, but before someone claims "Disney paid them off", etc.; critics were harder on Captain Marvel and had no love for Solo: A Star Wars Story or The Rise of Skywalker so critical bias just doesn't make sense. Critics don't always get it right, but their scores at least seem way more on point in these highly charged situations than users. 

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7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

While I agree with you, you are being far too fair to users/the audience. Critics (actual, real critics) universally praised The Last of Us Part II, and having played 13 hours or so, even if I didn't like or enjoy the story or characters because I don't get to live out some old white man prepper power fantasy, which I do, the technical aspects of the game are so top notch as to make the user rating on Metacritic seems laughable. The people user review bombing this game are the same ones who hated the end of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, couldn't stand The Last Jedi (which was successfully review bombed on RottenTomatoes), and did their damndest to hate films online like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel entering the superhero film space, much less being annoyed with films like Widows or Hustlers. There is a very clear lowest common denominator amongst all this incredulous, toxic, unearned hate and I think we can all see it all pretty clearly. 

 

Even setting aside their sexism and racism, the average person who consumes art hates to have their expectations messed with. They want stories to play out the way they want them to play out. It's why everyone hated Walter White's wife in Breaking Bad because she was an obstacle to his success in the illegal meth drug industry. But then if they bothered to think about it for two seconds, one would see it's an innocent wife trying to save her family from her slowly going dark husband. She's not an obstacle, she's the moral compass. Same thing happened with Don Draper's wife on Mad Men, being more annoyed with her than him, even though he's doing all the cheating and not being there for his family because audiences just want the power fantasy of Walter White or Don Draper just "winning" all the time against cool villains who almost but not quite beat them. 

 

Things like The Last Jedi, FF7R, The Last of Us Part II, etc. challenge all of that. It was why Avengers: Endgame was so universally loved even though I thought it was just okay. It was really well done but it played out exactly like one would more or less expect in terms of characters' dramatic arcs. Art like TLJ or FF7R push us in ways we don't like, or makes us uncomfortable, or isn't the way we saw things playing out, and I appreciate art that challenges us in this way more than things playing it safe. There's a real conversation to be had about whether TLJ or FF7R or TLOU Part II subvert and challenge expectations well and successfully (time usually only tells with this) or their gambits and storytelling choices didn't work, but to divest that conversation from the toxic user review bombing group who do it for all the wrong reasons is quite difficult and it's hard to separate it. Again, critics seem to be more objective here - they rated FF7R pretty well as well as TLJ and TLOU Part II and Wonder Woman, but before someone claims "Disney paid them off", etc.; critics were harder on Captain Marvel and had no love for Solo: A Star Wars Story or The Rise of Skywalker so critical bias just doesn't make sense. Critics don't always get it right, but their scores at least seem way more on point in these highly charged situations than users. 

Great points, and I think you're getting to the heart of why "fandom" is such a toxic force - there is an entitlement that stories need to be "fan-driven" and meet the expectations of the audience, rather than adhere to the vision of the artist/creator.  If I don't like something, it's not because I didn't get what I want.  I want to consume things that artists want to make, not what they think their audience wants.  However, as you point out, I realize that we are the in the minority in this regard.

 

You're also correct about the critical reception, but the negative reviews I've read (notably Vice, Kotaku, Polygon) have been pretty scathing, without recognizing any of the game's achievements.  Likewise, some of the positive reception is exaggerated to such a degree that it's difficult to take most of it seriously.  If something is excellent, it's either a "masterpiece" or my personal least favorite, "masterclass".  It just seems to have devolved into some sort of side-taking that makes no sense to me. 

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10 minutes ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

Great points, and I think you're getting to the heart of why "fandom" is such a toxic force - there is an entitlement that stories need to be "fan-driven" and meet the expectations of the audience, rather than adhere to the vision of the artist/creator.  If I don't like something, it's not because I didn't get what I want.  I want to consume things that artists want to make, not what they think their audience wants.  However, as you point out, I realize that we are the in the minority in this regard.

 

You're also correct about the critical reception, but the negative reviews I've read (notably Vice, Kotaku, Polygon) have been pretty scathing, without recognizing any of the game's achievements.  Likewise, some of the positive reception is exaggerated to such a degree that it's difficult to take most of it seriously.  If something is excellent, it's either a "masterpiece" or my personal least favorite, "masterclass".  It just seems to have devolved into some sort of side-taking that makes no sense to me. 

 

All well put - I haven't been reading reviews to avoid spoilers but I did read the Polygon review and it was strangely focused on what is true of humanity at large (kept going on and on about "we're better than what this game tells us we are" and I'm like, what world are you living in?). :p 

 

It is true that internet discourse always works in extremes, even moreso with controversial big releases, both in terms of positive criticism and negative criticism. I'm always baffled when reviews don't ever look at the other side of the coin, like how you mention some reviews failing to even recognize or acknowledge what a game does do well. Baffling all around. 

 

And I'm 100% with you on my preference as well being in what the artist's want to say or make over just trying to give me what I want. This is why I had an issue with the Mass Effect 3 ending DLC. The original ending was horrifically bad, but that's the ending they wanted to tell. Altering it only to cater to fan outcry robs any artistic integrity you once had. Stick to your art, whether it was received well or not. 

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Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

All well put - I haven't been reading reviews to avoid spoilers but I did read the Polygon review and it was strangely focused on what is true of humanity at large (kept going on and on about "we're better than what this game tells us we are" and I'm like, what world are you living in?). :p 

 

It is true that internet discourse always works in extremes, even moreso with controversial big releases, both in terms of positive criticism and negative criticism. I'm always baffled when reviews don't ever look at the other side of the coin, like how you mention some reviews failing to even recognize or acknowledge what a game does do well. Baffling all around. 

The Polygon one is a great example, because what they're failing to recognize is that humanity IS that bad in the world of this fictional game.  It's a bizarre reading of the story that tries to transpose its themes onto what's currently happening in our world.  The parallels are certainly alarming, but criticizing fiction for not representing reality is bonkers.  Unless the game ends with text on the screen saying "only through the elimination of violence can we achieve world peace" (like in Miami Connection), I won't believe that it's trying to "say something" about humanity.

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2 hours ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said:

Okami is incredible, and it has one of my all-time favorite soundtracks.  Enjoy!  I can thank @Brick for my copy.  Thanks again!!

 

I'm so glad you liked it. I love the game, and find it's a shame that it didn't sell better, and Clover Studios collapsed after. I would love a proper sequel (Okamiden on the DS is good, but re-uses a lot of the same areas). 

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TLoU2 is the umpteenth example of how popular games criticism doesn't allow for nuanced discussion. Even outlets that don't give scores tend to write in a way that is intended to allow someone to make an informed purchase of whatever's up for offer. You have places like Digital Foundry go into deep technical analysis of a game, but most places boil down to "is game good" which is a tough nut to crack for something like this where Naughty Dog is trying to both make a compelling game and also to say something.

 

Most of Naughty Dog's games have had this mashup of the actual gameplay and what's actually happening in-game. Uncharted is Indiana Jones, but when you take a 90-120 minute movie and stretch it into a 15 hour campaign, Drake's killed the population of a small town en route to steal treasure. But people get bent out of shape when you point that out because Nate is a fun guy and the games are really entertaining, well produced romps. "That's gotta hurt," when you shoot someone in the head is only a quip when you're not invested in the protagonist as an actual person and the game moves you right along at a brisk pace... because that is psychotic behavior. It's also clearly not how Nate ACTUALLY feels about people, because when B-tier characters die in cutscenes, he doesn't joke about he'll have to raise that person's kids, or something. It's easy to not think about this in-game because you're having so much fun, and for me the worst parts of Uncharted are when they try to lampshade that shit by either calling it out (final boss in Uncharted 2 literally does this), or by ill-conceived flashbacks that try to explain things that never needed an explanation.

 

When it comes to TLoU2... it's different because Naughty Dog is obviously trying for something that's more serious. So you have a game where the gears (story/characters vs. gameplay) are both well fabricated and well lubricated... but they don't fit together all that well. There won't be spoilers here, but I think it's reasonable to state just from what's on the box that the game is about (amongst other things, but in no small part) the cycle of violence and how that affects the characters. But the gameplay actively encourages and actively rewards it. Completely ignoring the infected, you're put in a lot of situations where you can be violent to people in this game. And it's clear Naughty Dog wants you to do that. Taking enemies out gives you more goodies, gives you access to collectibles, gives you access to upgrades, etc. The option to circumvent some of that conflict is suboptimal from a gameplay perspective and it has no bearing on the story they want to tell. Not killing everyone to explore every nook and cranny just means you'll be less equipped for times the game needs you to be equipped.

 

This isn't a call for Naughty Dog to make a game that gives me "choice" in how the narrative unfolds, or to say that they shouldn't make their gameplay systems compelling, or anything like that. But for me, when your story is about the trauma involved in violence and its potentially cyclical nature, but your gameplay actively incentivizes you to engage in it...are you actually saying anything?

 

None of this is to say I'm not really enjoying my time with it... I'll probably finish the thing today, which means I'll have dropped 24 hours on the thing within 96ish hours of it coming out. I don't hate myself, so I think that its individual parts are REALLY good.

 

EDIT - I'll have more to say on the game's dichotomy when I finish. The strongest examples I can give of it are super spoilery, and I wanna give the game a chance to wrap up and chew on it a bit before I keep blabbing.

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3 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Holy shit, is it particularly long? I really don't know anything about it, just that I was REALLY in the mood for a much, much more lighthearted adventure style game after playing seemingly nothing but grim shit for months. 

 

2 hours ago, ManUtdRedDevils said:

It is longer than it should be. I got burnt out by the end. 

I played it on the Wii back in like 2009. All I remember is getting to a point that really felt like the end of the game, and then it kept going. I glanced at a walkthrough and saw that I was maybe 50% done. :shock: 

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Just now, TheLeon said:

 

I played it on the Wii back in like 2009. All I remember is getting to a point that really felt like the end of the game, and then it kept going. I glanced at a walkthrough and saw that I was maybe 50% done. :shock: 

Unrelated to TLoU2 in any real way... open world games have completely destroyed any head clock I have for gaming. I'll spend what feels like an enjoyable long time in a Mario Odyssey session and it'll be 90 minutes. I'll sit down in front of something like Wild Hunt for what feels like 90 minutes and emerge from my basement with a full beard and an impacted colon.

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3 hours ago, Dre801 said:

The hate campaign that has been launched isn't gonna work. This game will be a success regardless.

 

they never do anyway.  all these incel trolls did the same shit with things like Capt Marvel and that was a billion dollar movie.

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I have beat Uncharted 1-3(and the vita game), played Crash Bandicoot, and have seen parts of both of TLOU games. 

 

Naughty Dog doesn't make good games. Uncharted looked good, but shit was mediocre. I didn't hate them, but I certainly didn't like them.

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5 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

While I agree with you, you are being far too fair to users/the audience. Critics (actual, real critics) universally praised The Last of Us Part II, and having played 13 hours or so, even if I didn't like or enjoy the story or characters because I don't get to live out some old white man prepper power fantasy, which I do, the technical aspects of the game are so top notch as to make the user rating on Metacritic seems laughable. The people user review bombing this game are the same ones who hated the end of Final Fantasy 7 Remake, couldn't stand The Last Jedi (which was successfully review bombed on RottenTomatoes), and did their damndest to hate films online like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel entering the superhero film space, much less being annoyed with films like Widows or Hustlers. There is a very clear lowest common denominator amongst all this incredulous, toxic, unearned hate and I think we can all see it all pretty clearly. 

 

Even setting aside their sexism and racism, the average person who consumes art hates to have their expectations messed with. They want stories to play out the way they want them to play out. It's why everyone hated Walter White's wife in Breaking Bad because she was an obstacle to his success in the illegal meth drug industry. But then if they bothered to think about it for two seconds, one would see it's an innocent wife trying to save her family from her slowly going dark husband. She's not an obstacle, she's the moral compass. Same thing happened with Don Draper's wife on Mad Men, being more annoyed with her than him, even though he's doing all the cheating and not being there for his family because audiences just want the power fantasy of Walter White or Don Draper just "winning" all the time against cool villains who almost but not quite beat them. 

 

Things like The Last Jedi, FF7R, The Last of Us Part II, etc. challenge all of that. It was why Avengers: Endgame was so universally loved even though I thought it was just okay. It was really well done but it played out exactly like one would more or less expect in terms of characters' dramatic arcs. Art like TLJ or FF7R push us in ways we don't like, or makes us uncomfortable, or isn't the way we saw things playing out, and I appreciate art that challenges us in this way more than things playing it safe. There's a real conversation to be had about whether TLJ or FF7R or TLOU Part II subvert and challenge expectations well and successfully (time usually only tells with this) or their gambits and storytelling choices didn't work, but to divest that conversation from the toxic user review bombing group who do it for all the wrong reasons is quite difficult and it's hard to separate it. Again, critics seem to be more objective here - they rated FF7R pretty well as well as TLJ and TLOU Part II and Wonder Woman, but before someone claims "Disney paid them off", etc.; critics were harder on Captain Marvel and had no love for Solo: A Star Wars Story or The Rise of Skywalker so critical bias just doesn't make sense. Critics don't always get it right, but their scores at least seem way more on point in these highly charged situations than users. 

To be fair, Rise of Skywalker and Captain Marvel were both terrible. 

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1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

To be fair, Rise of Skywalker and Captain Marvel were both terrible. 

 

They were, and critics were accurate in their assessments about the films as being mediocre/terrible, that's my point. They didn't do the same to TLJ or FF7R because they are genuinely good. If they weren't, they would have rated them like Rise of Skywalker and Captain Marvel, presumably. :) :p 

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10 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

Holy shit, is it particularly long? I really don't know anything about it, just that I was REALLY in the mood for a much, much more lighthearted adventure style game after playing seemingly nothing but grim shit for months. 

 

It's pretty long. I don't feel like loading up my PS2 save to confirm but there are two times when it feels like the game is going to end, but it keeps going!

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Man, quite a few angles of this game's reception have been some real eyebrow raisers for me. The initial backlash, which appears to be at least partly mired in sexism/racism (much of which is plain as day just looking at user reviews and searching "SJW"), the overzealous defense lumping all negative critical reception as this cockamamie incel-hate-drive, and the absolute worship of a giant corporation selling a product successfully as though that's a thing us consumers should light a bonfire and dance over.


It's really quite nauseating!

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2 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Man, quite a few angles of this game's reception have been some real eyebrow raisers for me. The initial backlash, which appears to be at least partly mired in sexism/racism (much of which is plain as day just looking at user reviews and searching "SJW"), the overzealous defense lumping all negative critical reception as this cockamamie incel-hate-drive, and the absolute worship of a giant corporation selling a product successfully as though that's a thing us consumers should light a bonfire and dance over.


It's really quite nauseating!

 

I'm not sure if this is directed at me, but as I said, there's a very real and interesting conversation to be had if you can divest the toxic group from the group that genuinely wants to engage in critical debate over The Last of Us Part II's finer points. I'm just saying that that is hard is all, there are at least two clear distinct groups with some overlap that dislike The Last of Us Part II to varying degrees. I don't buy the "both sides are equal" debate here. 

 

The game was review bombed before people even played the game by over 10,000 users. If there's any overzealous defense (which I don't think there is), it's in response to that, not out of thin air. Such thinking and groups of people do need to be defended against so it can't be that unreasonable to want to go to bat against such groups. Does that mean all negative critical reception towards the game is wrong or incorrect? Of course not, but who is lumping Vox or Polygon's reviews with the user review bombing?

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9 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Man, quite a few angles of this game's reception have been some real eyebrow raisers for me. The initial backlash, which appears to be at least partly mired in sexism/racism (much of which is plain as day just looking at user reviews and searching "SJW"), the overzealous defense lumping all negative critical reception as this cockamamie incel-hate-drive, and the absolute worship of a giant corporation selling a product successfully as though that's a thing us consumers should light a bonfire and dance over.


It's really quite nauseating!

Nobody is saying the game can’t get bad reviews, but thousands of zeros are an obvious hatE campaign. Im perfectly fine with anyone not liking it. 

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