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Returnal - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry PC Port Review - "It's Good, But Could Be Great"


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I had a GREAT run last night and got all the way to the third boss with THREE large Medkits, an astronaut AND a parasite that saves you from a deathblow... and DIED on the third stage of the boss fight :lol: 

 

On the plus sign, I've figured out what to do in the fight. Is there a shortcut to get to the boss in the third stage like there is for the second one? I haven't had time to really put into this game recently but I want to try and put it to bed within the next week or two. Relocating back to Cali and my systems will be unavailable to me for a bit while I do so.

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On 5/28/2021 at 4:21 PM, stepee said:

This is one of the most fun games that I just can’t really progress in i’ve ever played!

 

The amount of concentration for most of these types of games just doesn’t work for me. I’ll space out thinking about work for a minute and then everything is lost. I can do hard games like Celeste if it lets me replay quickly at where I left off, but not this style.

 

Edit: To clarify I’m glad i bought it still and put in a good 20 hours and I’m sure I’ll play here and there still, I just never got past the first boss. 

 

It’s really a fantastic game that is a must for anyone who can do this sorta thing, just wish it was willing to meet me a little more in the middle.

By the way man, do not sleep on the melee. It's fucking strong. A strategy I often do is start shooting, dash to the left or right, then dash towards the enemy and melee them to death. Those sticky-substance shooting green dudes go down well with it and also, jumping into flying enemies, melee crushes them too. The purple bats go down with one strike usually if they took even one bullet prior.

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17 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I had a GREAT run last night and got all the way to the third boss with THREE large Medkits, an astronaut AND a parasite that saves you from a deathblow... and DIED on the third stage of the boss fight :lol: 

 

On the plus sign, I've figured out what to do in the fight. Is there a shortcut to get to the boss in the third stage like there is for the second one? I haven't had time to really put into this game recently but I want to try and put it to bed within the next week or two. Relocating back to Cali and my systems will be unavailable to me for a bit while I do so.

 

Spoiler

Yup. The bridge you activate is activated permanently.

 

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So I ended up fucking up Ixion (sp?) on my first attempt as well because I stopped playing like Mr. Badass and instead started playing conservatively, popping in and out of cover and so on. Ended up reaching him/her with great stats. I felt a bit cocky afterwards and promptly got destroyed in Biome 3. Ended up coming back, playing shockingly well and got that boss as well...who annihilated me three times in a row now.

 

I will say that I love this game in spite of it being a rogue-whatever (lite?like?) but I'm learning that this genre is definitely not for me. I really don't get the whole concept of grinding my way through the first level over and over to have a chance in the next level, hitting some asinine RNG clusterfuck of a room and being crushed within five seconds flat only to lose like an hour of playtime. Especially this year, I've been trying all sorts of new gaming genres I ended up loving (Disco Elysium, Shadow Tactics etc.) but the rogue thing has always sounded like tedious bullshit on paper and it does not disappoint in that fashion.

 

Like I said, I'm still fully engrossed here and I think the game is amazing but this structure is dangerously close to killing the game for me despite how great its other aspects are. The tension is definitely great but the low of having to start all over again with that pistol every time is a bit too much for me. I'm really glad I've somehow managed to fuck both those bosses up first try, otherwise I would've probably rage-deleted it by now.

 

All that aside, the game essentially being Beksinski: The Game is kind of crazy and shocking to me. I've been a huge fan of his paintings for many years and this nails it. The sound design too, my god, this might possibly the best, most atmospheric sound design I've ever heard, it hits every single spot I like. I've been playing on headphones exclusively and it's one of the most immersive games I've possibly ever played. Special shoutout to Biome 3, I'm floored by the design and everything.

 

I still can't help but wish this would've been an actual full-blown Metroid Prime style title structure-wise instead. There are many elements, which feel great, but again, I just kind of don't 'get' the rogue thing. I have a hard time seeing it as anything but 'the game was too short otherwise' because the progression from starting at 0 to being able to even hold your own in, for example, Biome 3 is so slow each time. If you could level back up significantly within a few challenge rooms, I'd understand this more.

 

Okay sorry for the long rant, just got done putting a lot of time into it this weekend in total and the highs are HIGH but the lows are abysmally low. Still, I can't stop thinking about it and that masterclass Ambient soundtrack just keeps rolling around in my head.

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1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

All that aside, the game essentially being Beksinski: The Game is kind of crazy and shocking to me. I've been a huge fan of his paintings for many years and this nails it

Agreed, the 2nd biome with the orange/red palate really nails it.

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2 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I will say that I love this game in spite of it being a rogue-whatever (lite?like?) but I'm learning that this genre is definitely not for me. I really don't get the whole concept of grinding my way through the first level over and over to have a chance in the next level, hitting some asinine RNG clusterfuck of a room and being crushed within five seconds flat only to lose like an hour of playtime. Especially this year, I've been trying all sorts of new gaming genres I ended up loving (Disco Elysium, Shadow Tactics etc.) but the rogue thing has always sounded like tedious bullshit on paper and it does not disappoint in that fashion.

Its something you love or hate, but this game is an outlier of rogue games. Most have much shorter runs and/or the rng isnt nearly as bad. I feel that Returnal has to many things in play at once that can rub against each other to make for a bad experience. 

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Hades made me fall in love with the Genre.  If  you haven't tried it, Id suggest giving it a shot.  It shows the best blend of Rogue Lite starting over with meaningful permanent progression.  Returnal isn't as good in this regard, but still does have a few things you'll collect that are permanent that make your runs easier if you manage to collect them.

 

I think my love for the genre, is that I love the early few hours of games typically far more than the later halves.  I love starting a build, getting certain early perks that make you more powerful, and the struggle of being vulnerable.  In a lot of games, after a few hours in, I find no matter the difficulty levels, you tend to get OP and the game loses some of its fun.  Returnal is very much like this for me, where I've really only ever died in the first Biome early in, because once I got a few upgrades it become too easy. 

 

In Rogue Lites, you get the sense of those early few hours of starting a new build and the challenge that comes with it over and over again.  I still need to try a few others as well to see if Hades just was so good that it's made me love the genre more than I should.  I really enjoyed Returnal as well, but beat it pretty easily and quickly so I didn't feel the frustration of wasting times on runs, which might have swayed my opinion.

 

I still would like to see a larger scale AAA attempt at the genre.  Returnal was a good start to show where they can take it. 

 

 

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I dunno... I get the frustration but this game reminds me SO much of games from the early days of 8bit and 16bit gaming and arcades. Like I get the same feeling playing this game that I got back then and I guess if you didn't cut your teeth on games that didn't have things like checkpoints or save files, where things like "extra men" are what keep you going then I could see this game being REALLY frustrating for you. If this game wasn't structured the way it is, most gamers would probably beat it in one sitting. That's not a knock, it's just a testament to what they were going for with this game. It's the epitome of the doctrine "Easy to pick up, hard to master". I got to the boss in the third biome again today and died because I confused myself thinking I had an astronaut when I didn't and I took a hit I shouldn't have. As frustrating as this game is, mostly because I have to actually carve out time to play it and can really only get one or two runs in a day with my schedule, it's probably my game of the year so far. It's a game I will continue to play LONG after I "beat" it simply because the gameplay loop is so fun.

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I jumped in after not playing this for 2 to 3 weeks now, and tried to Avenge a few of the dead astronauts and got my ass kicked twice.  That new enemy that spawns is brutal with just a starting pistol and no items or perks.  Felt way harder than any of the bosses to me, at least with it being literally in like the first room of a new run.

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1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I dunno... I get the frustration but this game reminds me SO much of games from the early days of 8bit and 16bit gaming and arcades. Like I get the same feeling playing this game that I got back then and I guess if you didn't cut your teeth on games that didn't have things like checkpoints or save files, where things like "extra men" are what keep you going then I could see this game being REALLY frustrating for you. If this game wasn't structured the way it is, most gamers would probably beat it in one sitting. That's not a knock, it's just a testament to what they were going for with this game. It's the epitome of the doctrine "Easy to pick up, hard to master". I got to the boss in the third biome again today and died because I confused myself thinking I had an astronaut when I didn't and I took a hit I shouldn't have. As frustrating as this game is, mostly because I have to actually carve out time to play it and can really only get one or two runs in a day with my schedule, it's probably my game of the year so far. It's a game I will continue to play LONG after I "beat" it simply because the gameplay loop is so fun.

For me it's the time investment but even the gripes I had in my post above, the game is phenomenal otherwise and it's a testament to just how good it is that I got over the rogue aspects. And I actually agree with you, it does majorly evoke that era of gaming for me as well, the tip-toe-ing into uncharted territory one room at a time. I noticed at one point in Biome 3 that between the insane sound design, the relentlessly hostile nature of the game and that soundtrack, I had goosebumps going and my mouth had probably been open for like ten minutes straight.

 

I did notice that when I went back 'for a quick run' through Biome 2 earlier, I barely even leveled up in Biome 1 and was crushing enemies that I was terrified of the first couple times through. Right now I'll just be focusing on unlocking weapon traits during the week actually and maybe take a run through Biome 3 back up the tower here and there to teach myself some reliable strategies. Those fucking drones are insane, they actively scare the shit out of me every time I hear that sound...I need to learn how to reliably deal with those.

 

I just noticed today there are daily challenges, I'll probably be addicted to this forever as well. The one I did today had some fun restrictions and the reward was 5 Ether, good stuff.

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8 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

And for those not familiar with his art and currently playing, this is the Polish artist Beksinski. Now think of Biome 3 especially:

 

If you really get off on Beksinski's artwork you should play The Medium because much of the game's  art style is based on his art.

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7 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

For me it's the time investment but even the gripes I had in my post above, the game is phenomenal otherwise and it's a testament to just how good it is that I got over the rogue aspects. And I actually agree with you, it does majorly evoke that era of gaming for me as well, the tip-toe-ing into uncharted territory one room at a time. I noticed at one point in Biome 3 that between the insane sound design, the relentlessly hostile nature of the game and that soundtrack, I had goosebumps going and my mouth had probably been open for like ten minutes straight.

 

I did notice that when I went back 'for a quick run' through Biome 2 earlier, I barely even leveled up in Biome 1 and was crushing enemies that I was terrified of the first couple times through. Right now I'll just be focusing on unlocking weapon traits during the week actually and maybe take a run through Biome 3 back up the tower here and there to teach myself some reliable strategies. Those fucking drones are insane, they actively scare the shit out of me every time I hear that sound...I need to learn how to reliably deal with those.

 

I just noticed today there are daily challenges, I'll probably be addicted to this forever as well. The one I did today had some fun restrictions and the reward was 5 Ether, good stuff.

 

I think what sticks out for Returnal, Dead Cells, and presumably Hades (I haven't played it yet but the similarities I read are there) is there is a sense of progression despite the roguelite nature of it. I believe the term comes from the game Rogue, where randomly generated maps, permadeath, turn-based battles, etc. were a thing. A good explainer:

 

Dead-Cells-game.jpg
SCREENRANT.COM

Roguelike and roguelite are similar but distinct subgenres.

 

I remember playing many roguelites in the early days of the PS4 since they offered plenty on PS+. While I may not have played enough to understand them all, there were a few -- Binding of Isaac, Spelunky -- that I didn't feel had enough progression in them, so I didn't stay with them as much.

 

Dead Cells changed that for me because while your items reset, the upgrades you received and the kinds of weapons you could find in a map would change the further into the game you got. So you still weren't able to memorize the enemy setup, level setup (kind of since there are only so many rooms that randomly generate, so you'll eventually know what to spot), but you felt better equipped and less afraid to tackle challenges. I spent, gawd, maybe 70 hours or something crazy with Dead Cells; I loved it.

 

That's why I was excited about Returnal, and that's why I'm glad it's doing well and people here who either are mainly Xbox gamers or who are Playstation gamers but normally overlooked Housemarque's games, are giving Housemarque a closer look now. They have such a great handle on raw gameplay, and now they were able to add a budget and use it on a genre that's a blast when done a little differently (some progression elements).

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1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I think what sticks out for Returnal, Dead Cells, and presumably Hades (I haven't played it yet but the similarities I read are there) is there is a sense of progression despite the roguelite nature of it. I believe the term comes from the game Rogue, where randomly generated maps, permadeath, turn-based battles, etc. were a thing. A good explainer:

 

Dead-Cells-game.jpg
SCREENRANT.COM

Roguelike and roguelite are similar but distinct subgenres.

 

I remember playing many roguelites in the early days of the PS4 since they offered plenty on PS+. While I may not have played enough to understand them all, there were a few -- Binding of Isaac, Spelunky -- that I didn't feel had enough progression in them, so I didn't stay with them as much.

 

Dead Cells changed that for me because while your items reset, the upgrades you received and the kinds of weapons you could find in a map would change the further into the game you got. So you still weren't able to memorize the enemy setup, level setup (kind of since there are only so many rooms that randomly generate, so you'll eventually know what to spot), but you felt better equipped and less afraid to tackle challenges. I spent, gawd, maybe 70 hours or something crazy with Dead Cells; I loved it.

 

That's why I was excited about Returnal, and that's why I'm glad it's doing well and people here who either are mainly Xbox gamers or who are Playstation gamers but normally overlooked Housemarque's games, are giving Housemarque a closer look now. They have such a great handle on raw gameplay, and now they were able to add a budget and use it on a genre that's a blast when done a little differently (some progression elements).

I think despite my first post about roguelikes/roguelites, I might actually give Dead Cells a shot at some point. Even since I made that post, the more I play and the more Returnal rolls around in my head, I think I might eventually come around to this concept. Losing literally everything...not so much, no thanks...but the weapon traits in Returnal are kind of fun to dedicate runs to and then picking up some ripping Serrated Hollowseeker later on, knowing you worked for it. Dead Cells does sound kind of appealing and I almost picked it up last year I think? 

 

Unrelated again but Returnal also heavily reminds me of the Playstation and N64 versions of Doom which had those heavy, moody synth Ambient soundtracks and additional lighting engine. PSX Doom and Doom 64 were my favorite games for ages and this keeps bringing me back to that, it's just so moody and claustrophobic just like those games. The perfect antidote for my hatred of Nu Doom.  

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On 5/30/2021 at 1:53 PM, skillzdadirecta said:

I had a GREAT run last night and got all the way to the third boss with THREE large Medkits, an astronaut AND a parasite that saves you from a deathblow... and DIED on the third stage of the boss fight :lol: 

 

On the plus sign, I've figured out what to do in the fight. Is there a shortcut to get to the boss in the third stage like there is for the second one? I haven't had time to really put into this game recently but I want to try and put it to bed within the next week or two. Relocating back to Cali and my systems will be unavailable to me for a bit while I do so.

Spoiler

Unfortunately there isn't (well outside of the Biome 1 bridge unlock to go straight to 3). My successful boss attempt last night was a total marathon...about 2 hours total. Cleared all of Biome 1 and 2 main rooms, teleported to the top, took the Biome 3 teleporter, ascended the tower and beat Nemesis. I had to get a screenshot to show how I beat it...note the health bar. Also no astronaut nor reconstructor because Biome 3 fucking terrified me and I hightailed it straight to the tower ascent :dab2:

 

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I kind of understand the rogue structure a lot more after sinking way more time into it I think and my opinion on it has definitely been changing. I've adjusted my playstyle accordingly instead of expecting the game to cater to me more and wishing it was a straight Metroidvania. I still think the malignancy system especially needs a serious balancing pass but the more I've adjusted to the game in general, the more I've been actually starting to enjoy the craziness of such a structure instead. Always  love when this happens and games end up 'reprogramming' my tastes. 

 

Also I think Biome 3 might be up there with my all-time favorite levels in a videogame. I haven't ventured far into Biome 4 yet, just played an hour last night but already miss running through 1 through 3 and want to redo those again as well. 

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3 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I kind of understand the rogue structure a lot more after sinking way more time into it I think and my opinion on it has definitely been changing. I've adjusted my playstyle accordingly instead of expecting the game to cater to me more and wishing it was a straight Metroidvania. I still think the malignancy system especially needs a serious balancing pass but the more I've adjusted to the game in general, the more I've been actually starting to enjoy the craziness of such a structure instead. Always  love when this happens and games end up 'reprogramming' my tastes. 

 

Also I think Biome 3 might be up there with my all-time favorite levels in a videogame. I haven't ventured far into Biome 4 yet, just played an hour last night but already miss running through 1 through 3 and want to redo those again as well. 


 

Spoiler

Keep playing. You haven’t seen the last of them. Especially if you want to get the true ending.

 

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20 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:


 

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Keep playing. You haven’t seen the last of them. Especially if you want to get the true ending.

 

Oh I absolutely will, I'm extremely addicted to this game if I haven't made that part clear. The main issue is the prohibitive time investment. Unless it's the weekend and I get lucky, I can't sink more than like an hour tops into gaming per night. I still think the game really needs a Save & Quit option like Souls.

 

On another note:

 

Spoiler

The house sequence in Biome 4 was totally fucking out of nowhere and I felt like my brain couldn't compute watching myself playing a character play PS5 on screen for a good few seconds. My girlfriend watched me play and actually looked up and said 'what the fuck...?' out loud. The story/lore/atmosphere in this game is phenomenal and actually...upsetting and affecting? 

It's funny because I'm replaying The Last of Us at the same time and the the discrepancy between Naughty Dog wanting so hard for you to emotionally connect vs. Returnal actually emotionally connecting with me through seemingly pure gameplay and mood is interesting. This game for me is pure 'immersion' on every level and watching melodramatic cutscenes and slow-walking while characters say soap opera stuff is the opposite. I'm not directly comparing the games, they basically have nothing in common, and also I think TLoU is great despite its silly Hollywood-isms, it just struck me the last couple nights of playing how disconnected a game that tries so hard specifically to connect feels to me vs. this which is basically pure Arcade + atmosphere. 

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6 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Oh I absolutely will, I'm extremely addicted to this game if I haven't made that part clear. The main issue is the prohibitive time investment. Unless it's the weekend and I get lucky, I can't sink more than like an hour tops into gaming per night. I still think the game really needs a Save & Quit option like Souls.

 

On another note:

 

  Hide contents

The house sequence in Biome 4 was totally fucking out of nowhere and I felt like my brain couldn't compute watching myself playing a character play PS5 on screen for a good few seconds. My girlfriend watched me play and actually looked up and said 'what the fuck...?' out loud. The story/lore/atmosphere in this game is phenomenal and actually...upsetting and affecting? 

It's funny because I'm replaying The Last of Us at the same time and the the discrepancy between Naughty Dog wanting so hard for you to emotionally connect vs. Returnal actually emotionally connecting with me through seemingly pure gameplay and mood is interesting. This game for me is pure 'immersion' on every level and watching melodramatic cutscenes and slow-walking while characters say soap opera stuff is the opposite. I'm not directly comparing the games, they basically have nothing in common, and also I think TLoU is great despite its silly Hollywood-isms, it just struck me the last couple nights of playing how disconnected a game that tries so hard specifically to connect feels to me vs. this which is basically pure Arcade + atmosphere. 

 

If you thought that sequence was weird, I hope you also 

Spoiler

enjoyed the Housemarque Easter eggs in the room. I saw some "toys" from their previous games around.

 

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15 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

If you thought that sequence was weird, I hope you also 

  Hide contents

enjoyed the Housemarque Easter eggs in the room. I saw some "toys" from their previous games around.

 

Yeah, noticed that as well. Also, am I right in having taking that sequence and the end of Biome 3/beginning of Biome 4 'cutscenes' as:

 

Spoiler

Up until now, it appears Selene, at least per her potentially corrupted memories, has been rescued and returned to earth possibly many times and upon dying her peaceful earth human death, still returns to Atropos? The falling down into the grave and cut to Atropos was fucking good. 

 

Also, that was her daughter showing you her (favorite?) toys which Atropos/White Shadow has repurposed as helpful items for Selene based on positive memories maybe? 

 

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I had a GREAT run last night and beat the level 3 boss on my... fourth attempt? I think? It was my third or 4th time fighting him I think. I was pretty well kitted out... had 4 health packs, an astronaut, the parasite that gives you an extra life AND the parasite that heals you at low health and it was STILL a nailbiter of a fight. I'll upload it later but that boss fight isn't really that tough. The last stage of it is the trickiest part. I just started biome 4 last night but this game has really become one of my favoritesin recent times from the simple pick up and play gameplay, the old school arcade sensibilities and the great mood and atmosphere. Really loving this game.

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35 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I had a GREAT run last night and beat the level 4 boss on my... fourth attempt? I think? It was my third or 4th time fighting him I think. I was pretty well kitted out... had 4 health packs, an astronaut, the parasite that gives you an extra life AND the parasite that heals you at low health and it was STILL a nailbiter of a fight. I'll upload it later but that boss fight isn't really that tough. The last stage of it is the trickiest part. I just started biome 4 last night but this game has really become one of my favoritesin recent times from the simple pick up and play gameplay, the old school arcade sensibilities and the great mood and atmosphere. Really loving this game.

 

Level 4 Boss or Level 3 Boss?

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That last platforming stage in the Nemesis fight scared the living shit out of me. I went into total free-fall several times, frantically hitting the grapple hook button hoping to catch anything and just when I thought 'yeah fuck it this is it', I'd catch a point and was back in the game. Insanely stressful and satisfying. I was shocked when I actually beat it. 

 

Also, I can't wait to replay all these bosses later and crush Nemesis as revenge for making me nearly soil myself.

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I'm seriously thrilled how much you guys are enjoying it. A couple of posters who used to post here knew about Housemarque and played their arcade games, but I've felt like I was the last one here for ages. Glad they have the relationship with Sony that they do because not every small dev with arcade sensibilities gets to have the backing of a major publisher going back to Super Stardust.

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2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

I'm seriously thrilled how much you guys are enjoying it. A couple of posters who used to post here knew about Housemarque and played their arcade games, but I've felt like I was the last one here for ages. Glad they have the relationship with Sony that they do because not every small dev with arcade sensibilities gets to have the backing of a major publisher going back to Super Stardust.

I did play Super Stardust even way back I believe but hadn't paid attention to Housemarque until I discovered Nex Machina earlier this year. That game is a total fucking gem and I made it all the way to playing it on Veteran. I'm just taking a break because of Returnal actually. After Returnal, I actually want to start buying their back catalog more or less, especially Resogun and Alienation.

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