Movies Tenet - Trailer and Discussion Thread (Opening 09/03/20)

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 hours ago, heydude93 said:

I was debating if it'd be worth it to go on a theater expedition during the coronacalypse for this movie but now not so much.  Can't remember a Nolan Film that was actually confusing (even Inception was easy to follow once you know it's mostly just trying to visually represent layers of consciousness, etc) but everyone who's seen this is saying it's a hot mess.  What makes this one confusing?  Did it seem like Nolan was trying and failing to do an action blockbuster Shane Carruth story or something?

 

It's frustratingly confusing because you can't understand a single damned word of the dialogue 

[TheLeon]

Watching it a second time, I’m not sure how much the obscured dialog actually helps. Knowing what will happen later in the movie is really what helps you understand it. Which, in a bullshit way, kinda fits. 
 

He should really go full silent movie at some point. 

[Brick]

This is actually making me more curious to see it now, and see if I have any issues with the dialogue lol. 

 

Looking at my IMAX theatre it looks like they space out the seats; two seats beside each other, then three unavailable seats, then another two seats, and so on. I mean maybe I could go if I looked ahead and saw no one else had booked seats so I knew there wouldn't be anyone else in the theatre, and I knew what the cleaning procedures by the staff were. Doubt my girlfriend would even want to though since she and I both don't feel comfortable eating in at a restaurant though. 

[ShreddieMercury]

8 hours ago, TheLeon said:

Watching it a second time, I’m not sure how much the obscured dialog actually helps. Knowing what will happen later in the movie is really what helps you understand it. Which, in a bullshit way, kinda fits. 
 

He should really go full silent movie at some point. 

 

I think the silent route would be great given how sparse the dialogue is in Dunkirk, which I think is far and away his best movie.  The problem with most Nolan movies is that the dialogue is often just the characters explaining the movie to each other for 2 hours.  He can be a great visual filmmaker, but I'd say most of his movies are tell don't show.  I haven't seen Tenet and don't plan to until I can see in at home, but it certainly sounds worse than Inception, which is insane.

[Jason]

 

[TheLeon]

Home release on 12/15. I'm a little surprised he didn't insist on 12/21 

[skillzdadirecta]

On 11/5/2020 at 2:24 AM, Jason said:

 

Quote

"Long term, moviegoing is a part of life, like restaurants and everything else," he continued. "But right now, everybody has to adapt to a new reality."

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Christopher Nolan Says Fellow Directors Have Called to Complain About His 'Inaudible' Sound

WWW.INDIEWIRE.COM

---

"Interstellar" sound backlash left Nolan "a little shocked" at how "conservative people are when it comes to sound."

 

Quote

 

“We got a lot of complaints,” Nolan said about the “Interstellar” sound design. “I actually got calls from other filmmakers who would say, ‘I just saw your film, and the dialogue is inaudible.’ Some people thought maybe the music’s too loud, but the truth was it was kind of the whole enchilada of how we had chosen to mix it.”

 

“It was a very, very radical mix,” the director continued. “I was a little shocked to realize how conservative people are when it comes to sound. Because you can make a film that looks like anything, you can shoot on your iPhone, no one’s going to complain. But if you mix the sound a certain way, or if you use certain sub-frequencies, people get up in arms.”

 

 

GEE, CHRIS, I DUNNO ABOUT YOU, BUT IF OTHER PEOPLE IN MY PROFESSION WERE BITCHING ABOUT MY WORK, MAYBE -- JUST MAYBE -- THEY MIGHT HAVE A POINT!

[ShreddieMercury]

I definitely understand that his mixes are a conscious artistic choice, but maybe when your choice is "give me an enchilada of sound", it's the wrong one.

[Jason]

His sound design is a hot sloppy mess, yes.

[Brick]

Sounds effects and music wise his movies sound great, and yeah go all out with experimenting, but people are complaining about the dialogue. If they can't hear the dialogue it makes it harder for them to understand and follow the story. I think he missed the point people were making. Dialogue is king in the audio mix. It should come first above everything else. Make sure that's audible, and then decide if the music or the sound effects should be heard more over the other. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Brick said:

Sounds effects and music wise his movies sound great, and yeah go all out with experimenting, but people are complaining about the dialogue. If they can't hear the dialogue it makes it harder for them to understand and follow the story. I think he missed the point people were making. Dialogue is king in the audio mix. It should come first above everything else. Make sure that's audible, and then decide if the music or the sound effects should be heard more over the other. 

 

The piss-poor dialogue mixing wouldn't be so much of an issue if his films weren't so damned exposition heavy (except for Dunkirk).

[Emblazon]

Available to purchase digital mid-December. 

[skillzdadirecta]

12 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The piss-poor dialogue mixing wouldn't be so much of an issue if his films weren't so damned exposition heavy (except for Dunkirk).

That's the issue right there and I KNOW he knows this. One of the first things you learn in production and post production is that while audiences will forgive poor camera work, poor lighting, poor writing and even poor acting, they won't forgive poor sound. We've been trained by hundreds of years of movies to view any spoken dialogue in movie to be informational and if we can't hear it, it causes frustration. You would think after three movies where this is a chief complaint he would at least rethink his approach... I understand what he's going for... but it's clear to me that as much as I love his films, Nolan's head is WAAAAAY too far up his own ass and he believes his own hype now. Shame because once that starts happening, the quality of film starts to go down. When a filmmaker no longer believes he has anything to proove then the work suffers.

[TheLeon]

Tenet is like that one club scene in The Social Network, but for two and half hours not just four minutes. 

[silentbob]

Maybe if he also embraced Atmos sound and not just 5.1 mix, maybe the sound would be better. Still need to see Interstellar and bought the bluray steelbook when released and for s9me reason upgraded to the 4K disc too

[Jason]

12 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

hundreds of years of movies

wat

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

wat

That's what you got out of all the shit I typed? 

[Keyser_Soze]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That's what you got out of all the shit I typed? 

 

He's trying to drive you off the board too. Don't give him the satisfaction!

[skillzdadirecta]

16 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

He's trying to drive you off the board too. Don't give him the satisfaction!

WHo did he drive off the boards?

[Jason]

59 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That's what you got out of all the shit I typed? 

 

[Greatoneshere]

I finally got around to seeing this at home - I've seen it twice so far. I'll forego the long review since no one really reads those but, while on a character depth and substantive character level it's lacking, (this movie moves too fast and has too much plot to delve into that in the way Nolan is usually good about doing in movies like The Prestige, Inception, and Interstellar) otherwise this was one badass, slick, fucking cool ass movie that I will have on repeat often. I've figured out most of the movie at this point and I really enjoy it. The cinematography is gorgeous by Hoytem van Hoytema and Ludwig Gorransson's score (the dude who did Black Panther and The Mandalorian) just absolutely fucking kills it. I saw it at home, so with subtitles on I didn't care about the sound mixing (though the music and sound effects/design definitely drown out the dialogue if you don't have subtitles).

 

But yeah - what a fast-paced spy thriller with sci-fi elements. I really had a great time with it, and damn if the opening prologue doesn't get one's blood pumping. This movie was breathless even at 2.5 hours. Not Nolan's best, but still an excellent film. If anyone but Nolan made it, people would be praising it to no end. Also, I found Nolan's dialogue finally fun for once, with Washington's American character making hilarious, underhanded and off the cuff comments throughout the movie, contrasting with the mostly rich and snobby Europeans. A definite recommend, 8/10. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I finally got around to seeing this at home - I've seen it twice so far. I'll forego the long review since no one really reads those but, while on a character depth and substantive character level, this movie moves too fast and has too much plot to delve into that in the way Nolan is usually good about doing in movies like The Prestige, Inception, and Interstellar, otherwise this was one badass, slick, fucking cool ass movie that I will have on repeat often. I've figured out most of the movie at this point and I really enjoy it. The cinematography is gorgeous by Hoytem van Hoytema and Ludwig Gorransson's score (the dude who did Black Panther and The Mandalorian) just absolutely fucking kills it. I saw it at home, so with subtitles on I didn't care about the sound mixing (though the music and sound effects/design definitely drown out the dialogue if you don't have subtitles).

 

But yeah - what a fast-paced spy thriller with sci-fi elements. I really had a great time with it, and damn if the opening prologue doesn't get one's blood pumping. This movie was breathless even at 2.5 hours. Not Nolan's best, but still an excellent film. If anyone but Nolan made it, people would be praising it to no end. Also, I found Nolan's dialogue finally fun for once, with Washington's American character making hilarious, underhanded and off the cuff comments throughout the movie, contrasting with the mostly rich and snobby Europeans. A definite recommend, 8/10. 

 

You watched it with subtitles on, right?

[Greatoneshere]

14 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

You watched it with subtitles on, right?

 

Haha, it says it in the post that "so with subtitles on I didn't care . . . " but it does sound unclear,  but I I did have the subtitles on both times.   I always watch everything with subtitles on, but with Nolan (as you know haha) doubly so.  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Haha, it says it in the post that "so with subtitles on I didn't care . . . " but I did both times.   I always watch everything with subtitles on, but with Nolan (as you know haha) doubly so.  

 

Oh yeah - my eyes completely skipped over that! 

 

I'll watch its home release soon enough, but I'm not expecting my rather lukewarm impression to change all that significantly.

 

[Jason]

@Greatoneshere what service did you use to watch it?

[Greatoneshere]

20 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Oh yeah - my eyes completely skipped over that! 

 

I'll watch its home release soon enough, but I'm not expecting my rather lukewarm impression to change all that significantly.

 

 

After you give it another view let me know what you still think. I think, like a lot of Nolan movies, they get better on multiple viewings. I came out of The Prestige loving it but not being able to get over the cloning/duplication machine existing in the late 1890's when otherwise it felt like a realistic period piece about magicians. I came out of Interstellar thinking that a paradox of 5th dimensional beings sending clues through time to decipher complex engineering into saving ourselves and that love is a "real force" to be stupid and ludicrous and movie breaking, but while all that remains true for both The Prestige and Interstellar, so much of it is viscerally and emotionally so well done I forgive those movies their trespasses and actually think both movies are amazing. Both might even be top 25 movies of all time for me.

 

Tenet is such a whirldwind of action and music and plot that the first viewing I was super engaged, except emotionally and it all moved too fast for me to honestly appreciate. A second viewing and me thinking on scenes and pausing and figuring out what was happening before continuing really made me appreciate the movie more.

 

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

@Greatoneshere what service did you use to watch it?

 

I don't pay capitalist scumbags! Almost ever. I only have Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. I'll let you figure out how I watch most stuff.  

[Keyser_Soze]

Welcome back lover

[Brick]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

After you give it another view let me know what you still think. I think, like a lot of Nolan movies, they get better on multiple viewings. I came out of The Prestige loving it but not being able to get over the cloning/duplication machine existing in the late 1890's when otherwise it felt like a realistic period piece about magicians. I came out of Interstellar thinking that a paradox of 5th dimensional beings sending clues through time to decipher complex engineering into saving ourselves and that love is a "real force" to be stupid and ludicrous and movie breaking, but while all that remains true for both The Prestige and Interstellar, so much of it is viscerally and emotionally so well done I forgive those movies their trespasses and actually think both movies are amazing. Both might even be top 25 movies of all time for me.

 

Tenet is such a whirldwind of action and music and plot that the first viewing I was super engaged, except emotionally and it all moved too fast for me to honestly appreciate. A second viewing and me thinking on scenes and pausing and figuring out what was happening before continuing really made me appreciate the movie more.

 

 

I don't pay capitalist scumbags! Almost ever. I only have Netflix and Amazon Prime Video. I'll let you figure out how I watch most stuff.  

 

It's been a while sine I watched Interstellar but I don't think the "love is a real force" was meant to be literally it is a physical construct that can be measured yadda yadda or whatever, but more of a metaphorical sense that, hey love transcends time and space, and we as humans are intelligent enough to defy any logic of why we should forget about love, or whatever.

 

I have a friend who is of the Baháʼí faith, and he loves the movie, and thinks that Nolan must have researched it and took inspiration from it for the movie. I'm not super familiar with that religion, so I can't quite comment on those aspects, but liked his impression from the movie.

[Greatoneshere]

38 minutes ago, Brick said:

 

It's been a while sine I watched Interstellar but I don't think the "love is a real force" was meant to be literally it is a physical construct that can be measured yadda yadda or whatever, but more of a metaphorical sense that, hey love transcends time and space, and we as humans are intelligent enough to defy any logic of why we should forget about love, or whatever.

 

I have a friend who is of the Baháʼí faith, and he loves the movie, and thinks that Nolan must have researched it and took inspiration from it for the movie. I'm not super familiar with that religion, so I can't quite comment on those aspects, but liked his impression from the movie.

 

No, I agree, he didn't mean it as a literal force I don't think, but the scenes about it were so on the nose as to make me eye-roll, meant metaphorically or not. I should have been more clear, though I do think they do mean it to an almost "love is the force, it connects us" kind of thing, which may even be true in some energy/atom something something type way, but the film presents itself as very serious and very scientific, and it just became all kind of hokey by the end on that level. Fortunately, it makes up for itself on many other levels.

[Kal-El814]

Watched Tenet last night. I giggled every time “inaudible” came up on the subtitles. 
 

Aside from that, I’ll need to watch it again, but my initial thoughts are that this is a generally somewhat badly directed and very sincerely acted... middling movie? I dunno. 
 

For all of Nolan’s comments about not all storytelling needing to be via dialog, this movie has A LOT of dialog. Some of it cannot really be heard, and much of it is not good. Kenneth Branagh’s accent is pretty bad. And while a couple of the small scale action scenes are very cool, the big skirmish at the end is just... boring. Lots of wide shots where some people are running forwards and others in reverse, and a lot of inverted explosions. 
 

You put Elizabeth Debicki in a bikini like the one Ursula Andress wore, it’s a Nolan James Bond movie, I get it. But James Bond movies tend to be fun and Tenet takes itself so seriously other than a joke about how the protagonist needs to wear suits nicer than Brooks Brothers. 
 

I don’t think any of Nolan’s movies are super deep, but the best ones either have something to say or explore the theme in an interesting way. Memento kinda makes you feel like the protagonist by going in reverse, Inception has its protagonist obsess over reality only to stop caring when he sees his kids, etc. For a movie with a lot of time spent discussing fate, time, and causality, I don’t think Tenet really has anything to say about any of it. 
 

It’s a weird one. 

[Greatoneshere]

I would say Nolan movies grow on people. Time and multiple viewings allow the good to come through a lot more. Interstellar was pretty much laughed at at release as I recall online for the stupid ass plot mechanics, but now everyone thinks it's this powerhouse emotional journey. The film is both at the same time. So, we'll see.  

[TheLeon]

For better or worse, this is a movie that demands to be seen at least twice. I definitely liked it more the second time, but I would still rate it somewhere in the bottom half of Nolan’s filmography. 

[Keyser_Soze]

24 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I would say Nolan movies grow on people. Time and multiple viewings allow the good to come through a lot more. Interstellar was pretty much laughed at at release as I recall online for the stupid ass plot mechanics, but now everyone thinks it's this powerhouse emotional journey. The film is both at the same time. So, we'll see.  

 

I liked Interstellar immediately and liked it more after while something like Inception wasn't thrilled with it and enjoyed it less since.

[Greatoneshere]

22 minutes ago, TheLeon said:

For better or worse, this is a movie that demands to be seen at least twice. I definitely liked it more the second time, but I would still rate it somewhere in the bottom half of Nolan’s filmography. 

 

Agreed completely, but "bottom half of Nolan's filmography" is still better than most movies in general (at least to me). I've seen the film three times now and it's definitely gotten better each time.

 

3 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I liked Interstellar immediately and liked it more after while something like Inception wasn't thrilled with it and enjoyed it less since.

 

I'm simply speaking about what the general perception at the time of the film's release was. There were people who of course liked it off the bat, but that was very much the minority on this board as I recall. Most (like me) took great issue with all the love/paradox/black hole/gravity/time/5th dimensional future human being stuff in the third act. It was only upon reflection and rewatches that the emotional paydirt made itself known and the plot mechanics faded from view (they are still there and still stupid though).