~*Official Canada Thread of Good Governance and Unnecessary Apologizing*~

[Brick]

Can we agree as Canadians that bags for milk honestly kind of suck? 

[CitizenVectron]

6 hours ago, Brick said:

Can we agree as Canadians that bags for milk honestly kind of suck? 

 

Also, how common is it, actually? I remember seeing them (in small amounts) in the early 90s, but I haven't seen any in Saskatchewan in 25+ years. Are they still common in Ontario?

[silentbob]

Ontario is still pretty much all bagged milk. You can buy 1L cartons still and I think 4L jugs from convenient stores. I think this also applies to Quebec as well. When I was a kid I remember my dad always hitting the local Becker’s for the big  plastic jug of milk for us, but forget when we went to the bagged stuff. 

[CitizenVectron]

Interesting. Here it's 1L and 2L cartons, or 4L jugs.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

"Canada: Family targeted in fatal anti-Muslim attack, police say | Islamophobia News | Al Jazeera"

Canada: Family targeted in fatal anti-Muslim attack, police say

WWW.ALJAZEERA.COM

---

Police say driver ran over a family in Ontario ‘because they were Muslim’, killing four people including a teenage girl.

 

[Remarkableriots]

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

On 6/7/2021 at 9:59 AM, CitizenVectron said:

Interesting. Here it's 1L and 2L cartons, or 4L jugs.

They're cheaper than jugs.  They were originally put in during the conversion from imperial to metric (because bags could handle either) and never went away.  I personally hate them (along with the ridiculous dairy prices in Canada driven by the Quebec-dairy-farmer-protecting dairy board).

 

On 6/7/2021 at 6:40 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

"Canada: Family targeted in fatal anti-Muslim attack, police say | Islamophobia News | Al Jazeera"

Canada: Family targeted in fatal anti-Muslim attack, police say

WWW.ALJAZEERA.COM

---

Police say driver ran over a family in Ontario ‘because they were Muslim’, killing four people including a teenage girl.

 

The narrative has been that this was done because he was an anti-muslim  white supremacist.

So far they haven't been able to find evidence of that. 

However, they have found evidence of being medicated for violent mental illness (including a court order preventing him from being alone with his younger siblings), and threatening his mother as a teen.

[AbsolutSurgen]

An election in the short term looks less and less likely.  The toole that is leading the conservatives doesn't look like he can win an election, and a majority with the Liberals looks pretty unlikely....  Looks like we'll continue with what we have.  A government that only apologizes or gives non-answers.  An opposition that doesn't stand for anything (other than opposing everything).  An NDP that has a party leader that most people like (outside of Quebec).  And a Green party that is desperately trying to stay relevant.

[AbsolutSurgen]

I can't believe a liberal democracy tolerates Bill 21.

 

The fact that the leaders of the three major parties all are willing to largely ignore this is a huge disappointment.

[CitizenVectron]

9 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I can't believe a liberal democracy tolerates Bill 21.

 

The fact that the leaders of the three major parties all are willing to largely ignore this is a huge disappointment.

 

Agreed. At least in 2015 Tom Mulcair (say what else you will about him) took a hard stand against Quebec's xenophobic law. He wouldn't necessarily have been PM, otherwise...but I think he would have had a chance, and he chose doing the right thing over winning the election. Leaders need to all band together and speak out against it. Unfortunately, they know that if they do, the Bloc will sweep Quebec. It's disgusting. 

[CitizenVectron]

Oh, I guess I just missed the change in leadership:

 

 

[Brick]

QuiAnon

[Remarkableriots]

Canadian legislator calls for investigation into video of a police officer kneeling on a teenager's neck

WWW.CNN.COM

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A Canadian legislator is calling for an investigation and a community is asking for answers after video showed a Montreal police officer kneeing on the neck of a Black 14-year-old, according to CNN...

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I am now convinced that most young Canadians have absolutely no concept of Canadian history -- and there exposure to history is more of a spillover from US social media, rather than understanding how Canada is different.

1)  I don't think they understand how "most of Canada" -- at least west of Kingston - began European colonization in the late 18th century.

2)  The history of slavery -- which did exist, primarily in new France -- is fundamentally different than the US.  The vast majority of current Afro-Canadians immigrated from the Caribbean or the US in the 20th century (or 21st).

3)  The history of aboriginal interactions with European settlers

4)  The reality of residential schools.  [This one is very complicated.]

5)  The way Quebecers see Canada -- this is particularly difficult for immigrants.

6)  Politics (the Canadian parties are not analogous of the US ones)

7)  Access to education.  I saw this in action in the US, while I lived there.  It is fundamentally different to the system in Canada.

There seems to be a tendency (particularly with young Canadians) to just assume "we are just like them".

We have different problems, and need different solutions.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

)  Access to education.  I saw this in action in the US, while I lived there.  It is fundamentally different to the system in Canada.

Could you go into this more? I'm curious

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Could you go into this more? I'm curious

1)  School districts in the US are much smaller, so children who live in wealthier neghbourhoods attend schools that have much higher funding per student than in poorer neighbourhoods.  Canadian school districts are much larger, so school funding is significantly more equitable.

For instance, my children attended "Northville Schools" in Michigan, which served a population of ~20k.  My children now attend a school in the "Peel District School Board" which serves a population of ~1.5 million.  Equal funding levels the playing field.

2)  Private universities are virtually non-existent in Canada.  More affordable tuition, more equitable entrance requirements (that are largely limited to academics) and fewer disparities in quality between the different schools

[CitizenVectron]

Exactly. People in Canada don't move to different places to have access to certain schools. There are private schools, but they are quite rare. In my city of 275k, there are only two school boards. One has a student population of around 12,000, the other around 24,000 (Catholic and Public). Both are funded by the government, and both have the same curriculum (except that the Catholic division also has a few Catholic rituals/classes). But I would guess around 50-60% of the Catholic division students are not Catholic (since you can attend any division, being publicly funded). 

 

So when you have school divisions of 30-80 schools each, things are pretty evened out. Teachers are constantly rotated after a few years to ensure the inner-city schools don't end up with the bad apples, etc. Not saying education or access to it is perfect (it's very bad on Indigenous reserves), but for most of Canada it is not comparable to the US in how it exists.

[CitizenVectron]

ELECTION INCOMING!!!!!
 

How do I know? Trudeau shaved his beard.

 

Before:

 

 

Today:

 

 

So pandemic Trudeau is no more, we are entering Term III Trudeau phase.

[Brick]

And he finally got a haircut. 

[Jason]

The shape of his face works better with the long hair and beard.

[CitizenVectron]

At least we got the first bearded Prime Minister in 100 years, even for a short while. He really was Punished Trudeau. The first time we saw the beard was during the briefing of the downed airliner in Iran that carried so many Canadians, and now the beard is going away at the tail end of the pandemic. Basically, it was the minority government beard.

[CitizenVectron]

 

 

This is the second poll in a few weeks to show the Conservatives this low, and the Liberals this high. I believe it's the lowest Conservatives have polled in the history of Canada (if you combine right-wing parties from the 90s, when they split, before recombining). 

 

Combine this with Trudeau's clean-shaven face...there is 100% going to be an election called in the next 60 days, and the Liberals are almost guaranteed a sweeping majority (ahead by 17% in Ontario, by even more in Atlantic Canada, and NDP/Liberals almost even in Alberta and prairies thanks to urban votes). Amazingly, O'Toole is polling worse than Scheer with the public. 

 

The only reason we possibly wouldn't see an election until Oct 22 is because that's the date when the pensions from the MPs of 2015 will be fully earned, so I imagine Trudeau is feeling pressure from them to hold off. But if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't.

[CitizenVectron]

Another almost-identical result from a different pollster:

 

 

[chakoo]

The CPC really did do the LPC a favor by picking someone so bad as Tool. Yet based on the quality of those running they easily could have done a lot worse if PP stayed in the race.

 

-edit-

Also the beard better return post election!!

[AbsolutSurgen]

The only worse thing than O'Toole becoming PM, is getting stuck with Trudeau as a majority leader.  (Well, technically an NDP government would be worse, but that would be crazy talk.)

[CitizenVectron]

33 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The only worse thing than O'Toole becoming PM, is getting stuck with Trudeau as a majority leader.  (Well, technically an NDP government would be worse, but that would be crazy talk.)

 

We had majority Trudeau for 4 years already, and seemed to have gotten through pretty well. Certainly an improvement from Harper.

[AbsolutSurgen]

6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

We had majority Trudeau for 4 years already, and seemed to have gotten through pretty well. Certainly an improvement from Harper.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

[CitizenVectron]

Government of Alberta, reeling from bad polls after mishandling of the pandemic, decides to make a good PR move, and...wait...no, they are doing what?

 

Alberta finance minister pushes salary rollback for nurses | CBC News

WWW.CBC.CA

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The finance minister is calling for nurse wages to be rolled back as Alberta grapples with its financial situation.

 

For anyone unaware, Alberta is also the only province in Canada without a sales tax, as historically they have been oil rich. But with oil having tanked the last few years, they are of course now not oil rich, and need money. The easy answer is to institute a sales tax equal to their neighbours, but instead they are massively gutting the public service (including unilaterally breaking payment agreements with doctors, etc). No joke, while Doug Ford gets all the international attention for being a moron (and he deserves it), the UCP under Jason Kenney is the worst government in Canada, by far.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[CitizenVectron]

I am not entirely knowledgeable on the party that there isn't some anti-Semitism going on here (or racism, etc)...but it mostly seems that she is a totally incompetent leader who allowed her own staff to work against the party's own MPs' elections without any consequence. It sounds like the Greens have some big schisms, and it's all coming out now that May is gone (similar to the cracks showing in the CPC now that Harper is gone). So I won't discredit that there could be some anti-Semitism at play...but overall it sounds like she's a bad boss (she created a shadow cabinet without either of the two sitting MPs!!!) and is now using whatever she can to get out of losing her job. I mean...she called Chrystia Freeland Trudeau's "token" female, and claimed Trudeau was an anti-feminist by allowing a Green MP to cross the floor and join the Liberals...that accepting a female MP to undermine her was an anti-feminist move. What?

[CitizenVectron]

 

O'Toole has a real issue where people on the left don't like him (which is expected for a Conservative leader), but also that people on the far-right don't like him, because he's not QAnon crazy. So his base, if you can call it that, are more of the old-school PC types which have, over time, slowly become moveable voters that the Liberals have captured in small increments. 

 

Also I don't expect the NDP to actually do any better than the CPC in an election. Even if theoretically the NDP and CPC both got between 20-25% of the vote (which seems the best/worst case for this election), the CPC vote is much more concentrated in the western prairies, so they'd be guaranteed to win 70-100 seats, and the NDP would still only have 20-50. That concentration is a blessing and a curse for the CPC—it guarantees them seats, but also means that national polls never really tell the same story, as the Liberals can now beat them by dozens of seats with the same popular with their more efficient vote spread across the populated urban centres of the country.

[CitizenVectron]

Got the actual data (not just from a rando on twitter):

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Old-school PC types don't like O'Toole.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Old-school PC types don't like O'Toole.

 

He has no friends  

[CitizenVectron]

I'm getting ahead of myself, but if the Liberals do win the next election (which looks almost guaranteed, at least another minority), what happens to O'Toole? Does the party stick with him for another try? Replace him with a further-right option, similar to Maxime Bernier? (not him specifically)

 

They would kind of be in the same position as the Liberals during the Harper years, hoping the next leader will get them the win (with the same problem that the leader isn't really the issue, it's a lack of strong policy promise and messaging).