~*Official Canada Thread of Good Governance and Unnecessary Apologizing*~

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I would ask, though: What is the alternative? $2,000/mo is not generous for the vast majority of people. And that's before taxes. What do we do when the economy collapses because we let 2 million+ people lose their jobs and homes, and it continues to spiral, lowering tax revenue, etc? 

If you are a dependent or a spouse living in a household with a $100k+ income earner, is $2,000/month considered generous?

[CitizenVectron]

10 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

If you are a dependent or a spouse living in a household with a $100k+ income earner, is $2,000/month considered generous?

 

I mean, if you were making the money before and now you aren't...then no, it is not. 95%+ of people are making less on CERB than they were before. In fact, only in a single province (SK) does CERB pay more than the minimum wage for a full-time job. 

 

And pointing out the relatively small number of people who don't absolutely need the money doesn't answer the question: what is the alternative to government keeping the economy and people afloat? There are still 1 million people on CERB directly, and millions more working at businesses kept alive only through the CEWS subsidy.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I mean, if you were making the money before and now you aren't...then no, it is not. 95%+ of people are making less on CERB than they were before. In fact, only in a single province (SK) does CERB pay more than the minimum wage for a full-time job. 

 

And pointing out the relatively small number of people who don't absolutely need the money doesn't answer the question: what is the alternative to government keeping the economy and people afloat? There are still 1 million people on CERB directly, and millions more working at businesses kept alive only through the CEWS subsidy.

In times like this, where we are accumulating unprecedented levels of government debt -- emergency government should be targeted at people who need it.  Not upper-middle-class families.

 

If I were in power, I would certainly work with the best/brightest in the Ministry of Finance and Revenue Canada to create a targeted program.  It's easy to say "people would lose their houses, and not be able to buy food" without this program.  And while this is true in some cases, but clearly not in others -- IMHO, any program that provides 25% of its emergency support to households with 100k+ income is inefficient and misguided.

 

BTW do you have a link to the 95% number?  I've never seen that stat, and would love to see where you got it from.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Why not just raise taxes on actual income of those with partners (or whatever) with substantial incomes instead of useless bureaucracy designed to kill government programs?

 

Means testing on the front end of programs is terrible policy

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

In times like this, where we are accumulating unprecedented levels of government debt -- emergency government should be targeted at people who need it.  Not upper-middle-class families.

 

If I were in power, I would certainly work with the best/brightest in the Ministry of Finance and Revenue Canada to create a targeted program.  It's easy to say "people would lose their houses, and not be able to buy food" without this program.  And while this is true in some cases, but clearly not in others -- IMHO, any program that provides 25% of its emergency support to households with 100k+ income is inefficient and misguided.

 

BTW do you have a link to the 95% number?  I've never seen that stat, and would love to see where you got it from.

 

Do you have the link for the 25% claim? And is that 100k before one or both of the spouses were laid off? My wife and I make about $130k combined, but if one of us were laid off long-term we'd need support as well. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Do you have the link for the 25% claim? And is that 100k before one or both of the spouses were laid off? My wife and I make about $130k combined, but if one of us were laid off long-term we'd need support as well. 

Link was already provided. 

[CitizenVectron]

Lol

 

Quote

says a study from the Fraser Institute.

 

 

That's a crackpot ultra right-wing "think tank." They are expressly anti-government, anti-safety net, and anti-tax. They literally can't be trusted.

[Jason]

https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/09/04/government-issues-first-fines-for-not-wearing-a-mask-on-a-plane/

[CitizenVectron]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

https://westernaviationnews.com/2020/09/04/government-issues-first-fines-for-not-wearing-a-mask-on-a-plane/

 

Both flights were to or from Calgary...which makes sense.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

 

[CitizenVectron]

It didn't get a lot of attention because of the expanded EI news, but part of the Liberal government's new budget/plan is to introduce automatic tax filing in Canada, similar to how Australia does it. So everyone in Canada will just get a notification from the government with a pre-filled out tax form saying "does this look right?" The government already collects all the stuff anyway from employers and charities, so the vast majority of people won't need to do anything if the form looks right, they'll just get their refund (or bill).

 

Very good news.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

[CitizenVectron]

Racism against Indigenous people (especially in the western provinces) is systemic and real. Heads need to roll for this.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Annamie Paul Wins Race To Replace Elizabeth May As Green Party Leader

Quote

Annamie Paul is the new Green Party Leader.

The announcement was made Saturday evening in Ottawa after 23,877 party members out of an eligible 34,680 cast their ballots in a preferential voting system.

Paul, 47, is a lawyer, activist and international affairs expert. She becomes the first elected Black leader and first female Jewish leader of a major federal party.

 

[CitizenVectron]

On 10/4/2020 at 7:17 AM, AbsolutSurgen said:

Annamie Paul Wins Race To Replace Elizabeth May As Green Party Leader

 

 

It's cool because of the four national parties, two are now led by people of colour and minorities (NDP - Sikh, Green - Afro-Canadian+Jewish). It's great to see more diversity at higher levels. I expect the next Liberal leader to be a woman as well.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Annamie Paul, New Green Party Leader, Brushes Off Jagmeet Singh Not Offering ‘Leader’s Courtesy’

Quote

Newly minted Green Party Leader Annamie Paul says she isn’t surprised she won’t receive the same “leader’s courtesy” her party gave to NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh when he was first seeking a seat in Parliament.

“It certainly doesn’t surprise me. I’m a first,” Paul told reporters in Ottawa Monday when asked about how the NDP and other parties will field candidates against her in an upcoming byelection. “And as a first, you’re accustomed to fighting, you’re accustomed to having to overcome every single barrier to get to where you’re trying to go to.”

But her predecessor, Elizabeth May, is already urging the NDP to think about how “classy” it would be to field a candidate against Paul, the first Black person and first female Jewish leader to lead a major political party, in her quest for a seat.

Paul, a 47-year-old lawyer and international affairs expert who has never been elected to the House of Commons, won the Green Party leadership Saturday after eight rounds of balloting.

Burnaby South is/was an NDP stronghold that the Greens had no shot of really influencing.

Toronto Centre is a Liberal stronghold that has occasionally swung NDP.  A fringe party like the Greens shouldn't expect parties to gift them a seat that they've never realistically contended for.

[CitizenVectron]

11 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Annamie Paul, New Green Party Leader, Brushes Off Jagmeet Singh Not Offering ‘Leader’s Courtesy’

Burnaby South is/was an NDP stronghold that the Greens had no shot of really influencing.

Toronto Centre is a Liberal stronghold that has occasionally swung NDP.  A fringe party like the Greens shouldn't expect parties to gift them a seat that they've never realistically contended for.

 

Yeah I agree. If she were running on Vancouver Island (or really anywhere on the BC coast) then I would say the other parties should let her win. If you want to win an other-party stronghold...you need to earn it. Whatever anyone thinks of Trudeau, he entered politics by specifically running in a Bloc stronghold and defeating the incumbent.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Yeah I agree. If she were running on Vancouver Island (or really anywhere on the BC coast) then I would say the other parties should let her win. If you want to win an other-party stronghold...you need to earn it. Whatever anyone thinks of Trudeau, he entered politics by specifically running in a Bloc stronghold and defeating the incumbent.

Papineau is a Liberal stronghold, which they've held in every election since 1953 (except 1) -- where they lost to the Bloc by 2.5 ppt.

[AbsolutSurgen]

To your point, new federal leaders normally try to run in seats they have a (very) high probability of winning.

[chakoo]

I don't see ontario really electing a federal green member in the near future. What the greens should be focusing on is building up their supporters on the provincial level. ONDP continue to be a joke in this province and I have zero desire to support them next election (my provincial riding went from liberal to npd and will probably change back to liberal. I've heard and seen fuck all from our new MPP since she was elected).

[CitizenVectron]

30 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Papineau is a Liberal stronghold, which they've held in every election since 1953 (except 1) -- where they lost to the Bloc by 2.5 ppt.

 

Hmm, I am misremembering my history, I thought the Bloc had held it for 3 elections!

[CitizenVectron]

Canadians’ support for immigration, refugees increasing

WWW.RCINET.CA

---

Pollsters have found a surprising increase in Canadians’ acceptance of refugees and immigrants in spite of the uncertainty during this pandemic. The Environics firm has been polling...

 

Support for immigration has increased during the pandemic, reaching a 15-year high. 

 

Quote

Five out of every six respondents believe that immigration makes Canada a better country and they most likely believe that is because it provides a more diverse multicultural place to live.

 

‘This trend toward increasing acceptance is unmistakable’

“This trend toward increasing acceptance is unmistakable,” says Keith Neuman, senior associate of Environics. “ It does not appear to be the result of political or economic events. We don’t believe that events are shaping this trend, but rather that it is a reflection of how Canadian society is changing.”

 

Neuman notes there is a near consensus that immigration is good for the economy. A majority of respondents reject the notion that newcomers take jobs away from Canadians. “People recognize that we need those people to fill jobs to keep the economy running,” he said.

 

Quote

It may be a reaction to the situation in the U.S. “People look at the U.S. and think ‘we’re better than that. This is not how we want to be,’” he says.

 

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Canadians’ support for immigration, refugees increasing

WWW.RCINET.CA

---

Pollsters have found a surprising increase in Canadians’ acceptance of refugees and immigrants in spite of the uncertainty during this pandemic. The Environics firm has been polling...

 

Support for immigration has increased during the pandemic, reaching a 15-year high. 

 

 

 

 

Definitely just asking for a friend, what are Canada's asylum laws like?

[silentbob]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

 

Definitely just asking for a friend, what are Canada's asylum laws like?

You must denounce Dunkin’ Donuts and embrace Tim Horton’s as your new Coffee/Donut masters. Besides that, it’s all good

[CitizenVectron]

Obviously it's theatrics, but this sort of messaging does help reinforce public ideals and opinions - it matters how leaders behave, and what messages they send.

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

Apropos of nothing, we do have quite a beautiful centre of government. Parliament Hill:

 

 

I hope to visit in the next few years. My uncle was a Liberal Senator!

 

[Brick]

That's Hogwarts. 

[Jason]

2 hours ago, Brick said:

That's Hogwarts. 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

Looks like Trudeau has Jagmeet Singh wrapped around his little finger.

[Joe]

I follow Jagmeet Singh on TikTok. I have nothing else to add to this thread, but yeah, solid TikToker.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

Looks like Trudeau has Jagmeet Singh wrapped around his little finger.

 

I don't think there was going to be any other outcome. While the NDP may want to hold the Liberals to account...realistically, the current situation is the absolute best thing the NDP could hope for. They currently can prop up the government (without the help of any other party) which means they can make demands to do so. So far, this has worked out well for them, with increases to the CRB/EI reform being attributed to the NDP. The Conservative's main goal is to win government, but the NDP's main goal (whether they want to admit it or not) is to have the Liberals swing to the left on some things, and get results.

 

If there were an election, the most likely outcome right now (based on polling) is the Liberals either staying at the same strength, or even getting a majority. In that scenario, the NDP lose all influence. So this outcome was pre-determined, whatever one thinks of it.

 

It's a unique situation where the opposition parties could bring down the government any time they want to...but they don't want to, because they have no money, and the polling shows the Liberals would likely win again, but even stronger. The Liberals want an election for this reason, but are also fine with the current situation continuing on. So they can be fairly bold, like Harper was at the beginning of his minority government after Paul Martin stepped down (as he said, the opposition needs to "cut bait, or fish"). 

[AbsolutSurgen]

NDP's results in the last election were pretty much their worst since 2000, and they're down 3 points in recent polls from that level.  The NDP wants to grow the party to form a government, not fade out of existence.

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

NDP's results in the last election were pretty much their worst since 2000, and they're down 3 points in recent polls from that level.  The NDP wants to grow the party to form a government, not fade out of existence.

 

Exactly, it's why they can't afford an election so soon. Unfortunately for them, I don't see them growing while Trudeau remains head of the Liberals. He's sucked the air out of the left (rightfully or not), and young people now see the Liberals as the main progressive alternative, not the NDP. 

[CitizenVectron]

NDP on course to win a huge victory in BC.

 

 

 

They've been governing with a minority with support from the Greens.

 

Most exciting is their plan to introduce Quebec-style daycare for $10/day. It's a giant success in QC, and has resulted in more tax dollars being collected (by having more women in the workforce) than it has cost.